F1 2012 'Understeer' is actually faulty grip levels: CM fix inside

[MS7XWDC]

CM explains why there IS an understeer issue:

"Hi guys, just to let you know that we’ve adjusted track information that will provide a more uniform level of grip across the entire surface. This update will be going live in patch #4 later today.

We’ll post the patch notes later this afternoon!"

grip levels needed to be more uniform

 

[Dmitry Zaharov]

Understeer? Never heard about it.

 

[Inam Ul Haq]

Of course not as you are driving time trial & time trial has tyre sim switched OFF. What people are referring to is game modes with tyre sim ON, such as career, co-op, custom races online etc etc. You can easily go 3 to 4 seconds per lap quicker with tyre sim off.

I'd be interested to see a video of you driving with tyre sim on.

Just had this race yesterday around Spa, there are lot fast corner around this track and you can see for yourself that i didn't have any understeer problem:
PC + G27 and no assists

 

[Roberto Costa]

I believe that people say its understeering because now if you use the throttle before its suposed to be used you then go wide and may get out of the track, i see this as an improvement not a problem, BUT, i do say that theres a problem, its the lack of oversteer, if you input too much power you may just go straight and don't spin, or hardly spin out. They should do an improvement to the rear so we could be able to let it more loose, not so fixed to the track as it is. Thats what i saw playing it.

 

[Leonardo Chaves]

I agree with this view, if anything the problem is the complete lack of oversteer rather than understeer by itself, the balance between under/oversteer is heavily biased towards understeer so people complain about it, doesn't mean the game needs loads more of front grip just means a better balance would be welcome.

The fact that the game requires wants you to be "oh so smooth" on entry and let's you floor it no questions asked on exit should be all the information you need.

 

[Tiku35]

I agree with this view, if anything the problem is the complete lack of oversteer rather than understeer by itself, the balance between under/oversteer is heavily biased towards understeer so people complain about it, doesn't mean the game needs loads more of front grip just means a better balance would be welcome.

The fact that the game requires wants you to be "oh so smooth" on entry and let's you floor it no questions asked on exit should be all the information you need.

I agree this answer and i think that is reason. But how you explain different laptimes between f1 2012 and real life? I just tested Japan Suzuka and got time 1:33,3 in TT and Vettel got time 1:30,4 in real life qualify. Also i look Vettel pole lap and he uses about one gear higher all the time than me. Actually i cannot drive Suzuka 'S' Curves as fast than real life Vettel! I think game need more grip. Not so much like F12011 but more than now.

What you think?


Tiku

 

[Ho3n3r]

I agree this answer and i think that is reason. But how you explain different laptimes between f1 2012 and real life? I just tested Japan Suzuka and got time 1:33,3 in TT and Vettel got time 1:30,4 in real life qualify. Also i look Vettel pole lap and he uses about one gear higher all the time than me. Actually i cannot drive Suzuka 'S' Curves as fast than real life Vettel! I think game need more grip. Not so much like F12011 but more than now.

What you think?


Tiku

Maybe he's just a better driver than you I got 1m36.4 so that shows you different drivers get different laptimes...

 

[JesseDeya]

I agree with this view, if anything the problem is the complete lack of oversteer rather than understeer by itself, the balance between under/oversteer is heavily biased towards understeer so people complain about it, doesn't mean the game needs loads more of front grip just means a better balance would be welcome.

The fact that the game requires wants you to be "oh so smooth" on entry and let's you floor it no questions asked on exit should be all the information you need.

I don't know where this no oversteer idea comes from. I get oversteer on exit sometimes if I'm careless with power application, and it's not scripted because a quick lift and opposite lock often catches it.

As for understeer, I reckon it's just about right. I love the handling this year!

 

[Leonardo Chaves]

I agree this answer and i think that is reason. But how you explain different laptimes between f1 2012 and real life? I just tested Japan Suzuka and got time 1:33,3 in TT and Vettel got time 1:30,4 in real life qualify. Also i look Vettel pole lap and he uses about one gear higher all the time than me. Actually i cannot drive Suzuka 'S' Curves as fast than real life Vettel! I think game need more grip. Not so much like F12011 but more than now.

What you think?


Tiku

The Suzuka "Ssss" is all about flow, if you get 1 wrong, you get everything wrong...
It's definitely possible to get a time close to Vettel's (which was 30.8 btw), in my experience with the game the understeer is a lot more prevalent on slow speeds than on high speeds (like Suzuka sector 1) , maybe you are running to little FW, i pretty much always crank it up to max, there is no problem from it because the car never oversteers anyway.

@JesseDeya, that's not because you are driving full throtle over the curbs (or some bumps) right? because that's pretty much the only time i see it...
Honestly, the point still stands the game is biased towards understeer, there is too much grip on the rears, i never ever got oversteer on entry (it does exist you know) and anyone can be absolutely brutal with the car on exit.

 

[Roberto Costa]

I only get oversteer on exits on a wet track!
If it is dry its much harder to lose the rear. IMHO feels like there's a lack of power and a super grip on the rear.

 

[JesseDeya]

@JesseDeya, that's not because you are driving full throtle over the curbs (or some bumps) right? because that's pretty much the only time i see it...
Honestly, the point still stands the game is biased towards understeer, there is too much grip on the rears, i never ever got oversteer on entry (it does exist you know) and anyone can be absolutely brutal with the car on exit.

No, absolutely not just curbs. It doesn't happen that often, but then again it doesn't happen that often when I'm watching F1 on TV either... so I guess CM have achieved what their goal - make it FEEL like real F1.

I do agree that oversteer on entry is non-existant, but honestly when was the last time you saw an F1 car that have that problem? Yes they will sometimes get light in the rear under braking and subsequently turn it around, but oversteer isn't as big a deal in F1 as understeer.

 

[Alberto Casado]

No, absolutely not just curbs. It doesn't happen that often, but then again it doesn't happen that often when I'm watching F1 on TV either... so I guess CM have achieved what their goal - make it FEEL like real F1.

I would be surprised if it didn't happen 3-4 times each lap - each driver. That you don't see them spinning doesn't mean they are not making lifts and countersteering most part of the time.

A real F1: you floor it suddenly -> you make a donut. For all the criticism, F12011 was much much better in rear handling.

 

[JonW]

I agree F1 2011 was much better in the handling.. much more balanced..

Pretty much everything they ahve changed this year.. I think it's wrong. The incar sounds.. the cockpit view.. the force feedback.. the car handling and balance..

Only thing I like is the graphics.

I think the complete lack of oversteer is good for gamepad users.. but is really stupid for wheel users.. and drivers who turn aids off. Even with TC off.. it's hard to make the car spin when applying the throttle.

 

[Leonardo Chaves]

No, absolutely not just curbs. It doesn't happen that often, but then again it doesn't happen that often when I'm watching F1 on TV either... so I guess CM have achieved what their goal - make it FEEL like real F1.

I do agree that oversteer on entry is non-existant, but honestly when was the last time you saw an F1 car that have that problem? Yes they will sometimes get light in the rear under braking and subsequently turn it around, but oversteer isn't as big a deal in F1 as understeer.

Perez last sunday?

And sorry, but saying that oversteer isn't a big deal in an single seater demonstrates a lack of knowledge.
And we don't see drivers just going straight having no front bite all that often either.

Those cars are extremely agile and stiff, they go from stable to throw you into the scenery faster than you can blink.
Plus the fact that the car doesn't oversteer on entry kills an important driving technique where the driver uses the sliding rear to achieve a better turn in.

F1 2012 suceeds on making you "look" like an F1 driver, on that we can agree.

 

[JesseDeya]

Perez last sunday?

And sorry, but saying that oversteer isn't a big deal in an single seater demonstrates a lack of knowledge.
And we don't see drivers just going straight having no front bite all that often either.

Perez on Sunday? Exactly as I said "Yes they will sometimes get light in the rear under braking and subsequently turn it around"

Watch the replay again, he is unsettled under brakes because he is off line the corner before the hairpin, and then into the hairpin he outbrakes himself in the marbles and dirty part of the track trying desperately to not run into Hamilton. By his own admission he got it all wrong and carried too much speed into the corner and spun, the same thing will happen if you try that in the game.

You can call me unknowledgeable all you want, and I'll just do the same back to you. As far as I'm concerned grouping F1 generically in with 'single seaters' shows how little you know. There are singles seaters, and then there is F1.

If I'm wrong, why was it Ant Davidson, someone who has actually driven F1, who has been asking Codemasters to increase the understeer? Steve Hood actually said they were reluctant to at first but on his insistence they did and are now very happy with the handling.

Those cars are extremely agile and stiff, they go from stable to throw you into the scenery faster than you can blink.
Plus the fact that the car doesn't oversteer on entry kills an important driving technique where the driver uses the sliding rear to achieve a better turn in.

F1 2012 suceeds on making you "look" like an F1 driver, on that we can agree.

And I have no problem with aggressive turn in with F1 2012 so I fail to see you point? If I couldn't achieve the same level of performance in game as what I see on TV, then I would be asking questions - but I can.

F1 2011 was ridiculous, you could drive faster and harder than any real driver could in a real F1 car. That is no longer the case in F1 2012, or at least the delta is much smaller now.

I don't disagree that there are some drivers who prefer a car that has slightly more oversteer than understeer, but in general balance is what they unanimously seek. Oversteer will eat your tyres, something they can ill afford to do in 2012.

Anyway, we're going around in circles here (excuse the pun). The handling hasn't been modified since release and is unlikely to be this year. I'm personally loving it, guess we'll see what happens next year eh?

 

[Roberto Costa]

F1 2011 was ridiculous, you could drive faster and harder than any real driver could in a real F1 car. That is no longer the case in F1 2012, or at least the delta is much smaller now.

I don't disagree that there are some drivers who prefer a car that has slightly more oversteer than understeer, but in general balance is what they unanimously seek. Oversteer will eat your tyres, something they can ill afford to do in 2012.

Anyway, we're going around in circles here (excuse the pun). The handling hasn't been modified since release and is unlikely to be this year. I'm personally loving it, guess we'll see what happens next year eh?

I agree with you on that. But still the car lack oversteer and torque.
You can just stop the car and try to do a 180 turn. Its faaaar harder than a F1 car, may look like a 4WD or a F1 underpowered, but not an F1. I mean, when you use the anti-roll bar as 2-11 or something like this, the car should be more like a beast demanding much more throttle control, but this doesn't happen. I like the steering in F1 2012, it really feels better and it don't let you race like a maniac lol . But still could have more oversteer.

 

[JonW]

Agree very much.. the setup changes especially are where Codemasters have made artificial handling (IMO)..

Buecase even when you try to DELIBERATELY induce oversteer characteristics witH EXTREME setup changes.. it STILL won't oversteer properly.. there is a built in characteristic into the cars handling and changing setup doesn't change it much.. it's more about changing how you drive the car to compensate for it.. it's really hard to brake late.. it's very easy to run wide.. you have to brake early and be very accurate on turn in (like an understeering touring car like a V8 Supercar).. and then take advantage of the fact that you can floor the throttle on exits.. the understeer is so exaggerated.. it's very hard to brake late.. like when overtaking.. because once the car starts understeering, it won't turn and you are screwed. A bit of understeer is ok, but it's exaggerated too much in my opinion.

Agree with the steering.. it actually feels better this year.. it's only that it takes so long (for me) to get it setup and feeling right. But once it's setup it feels quite nice.

I noticed straight away with a wet race in Monza.. which I always use to tweaking graphic settings.. that there is was too much rear grip because it was my first lap of ever driving the game.. and it felt hard to make the wheels spin.. in LOW downforce Monza.. in the wet. Something was very wrong. The same thing happens in the dry. It is possible to spin the tyres.. but it's harder than it should be.. there is too much rear grip IMO.

 

[Leonardo Chaves]

Here we go again Jesse...

No, in the game Perez would just understeer wide instead of spining into the gravel, you yourself admited there is no oversteer on entry.

And let's get 1 thing straight, not for one second you will find a single post from me claiming that we need to go back to F1 2011 handling, i actually agree with you that F1 2012 is a significant improvement over that crap, that thing required no finesse whatsoever to drive it, just way too much grip, both front and back.
But significant improvement doesn't perfect, i think the balance between front and rear got screwed in the change and the car is undeniably understeery.

Understeer gives you a stable, comfortable racecar, safe and easy to drive during a long race, but not very rewarding (kinda slow and frustrating) to drive at the limit, so i don't feel great when i'm pushing.

Your dismissing of oversteer as "not important" was idiotic and you know it, oversteer is what the drivers fear.
And yes F1 cars are still single seaters, just faster than the others.

 

[JonW]

I agree F1 2011 had too much grip.. and too much optimum balance.. but at least that balance responded properly to setup changes.. the way a race car should.. and also allowed you to slide the front OR the rear.. depending on how you drove it. These cars don't allow you to slide the rear.. it's normal to have this problem but normally you can avoid it with car setup (both in real life and in sims). In F1 2012.. it's like understeer is hardcoded into everything you do.. and no matter what you change.. it's still understeer. Normally cars with this characteristic are touring cars that weight twice as much with tyres half as wide.. these are F1 cars that weigh 600kg and have 750hp..

 

[JonW]

Just to explain that last comment.. it's usually heavier cars that understeer.. and lighter cars that feel 'lighter' and more nimble and prone to oversteer.

It is why that a race car at the start of a stint.. always starts off with understeer balance.. and shifts to oversteer gradually as the fuel comes off. This is a trait that ALL race cars have but the heavier the car.. the more this affect of stability but slower turn in.

 

[Daishogun]

2011 was very weird. On the one hand, the slow speed stuff had nearly infinite grip, and on the other, you couldn't take some IRL flat-out corners flat-out, and the start of sector 2 in Turkey was a pain to keep the balance and maintain speed.

I prefer 2012 if I'm honest, because they've got rid of the curb riding crap that people used to get away with, and it really does feel like F1 now, particularly with the amount of wheel lock being applied. You watch on boards and they barely move the wheel, in 2011 you had full-lock in every corner.

Just my 2 cents.