TT Isle of Man - The Game

gamer19 · May 30, 2018

It'll be the first time in a game you realise you're forcing yourself to stay at 100% throttle while begging for a corner to appear just so you have a reason to slow down

Oh man... he got me !

Great article, thanks.

edit:
A little (personal) trivia...
I still didn't drive the main course !

Swear to God... I was like building confidence, little by little, going from shortest to longer and longer courses and... now it's just TT left.

And I admit... I'm a little scared to try it now. For many reasons. But I have to, eventually.

MarkR · May 30, 2018

gamer19 said:
But seriously... best pedestrians/bystanders/spectators/marshals ever were those in Richard Burns rally. Dear Lord... how many many times did I thought "will he move or not already!" they were flashing their cameras, smoking pot or whatever right in the middle of the damn road and move (seemingly) always at the very last time.

Well worth remembering, and trip down memory lane, there was a time when this was considered 'normal'!

Lidoptics · May 31, 2018

gamer19 said:
Oh no... physics speech again.
I guess we'll know for sure after we hit him.

They have rabbit(s) in DiRT 4 ?
Totally ashamed to say I didn't noticed single one.
Guess that's the proof that I need to play the game more.

But seriously... best pedestrians/bystanders/spectators/marshals ever were those in Richard Burns rally. Dear Lord... how many many times did I thought "will he move or not already!" they were flashing their cameras, smoking pot or whatever right in the middle of the damn road and move (seemingly) always at the very last time.
Priceless. Shame no one could (or care to try?) repeat that in their game anymore. Rally games should have that, period. And maybe TT Isle of Man too. Ok this is different kind of crowd, speeds are much higher but having a man or two, standing in not so safe position, would add a lot to immersion, for sure !

This is the best shot I have of them. They usually appear up the road further.

More clear ---> https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/ClearScratchyBordercollie

ChickenBoy18 · Jun 1, 2018

First half of a semi-fast lap I did. It ended up being a 17'08 as I was coasting over the mountain. Wasn't pushing as hard as I can for the first half of this, but was about 90%.

Damage Inc · Jun 1, 2018

70% or thereabouts of real braking is done with the fronts so why does split make that much of a difference? Also digital action of a rear brake isn't that useful is it? Does it still engage the clutch when the rear brake is on?

Damage Inc · Jun 1, 2018

Time to get back into this methinks, i have got to at least do more than a two lap race. I'm still praying for a physic tweak to the rear and an onboard view a bit more like Ride 2 (rider head movement).

DucFreak · Jun 2, 2018

I think I'm a different case compared to others, in that I'm not after laptimes or game results/recognition. I'm only interested in the best immersion, because I ride in real life and look for something that can relate to the real life experience (with a PC game), while being limited to a gamepad (but with analog controls for brake and throttle).
So, please consider this for the rest of the post.

IMHO, in this game the combined brakes are not really what you encounter in real life.
IRL, the front brake does about 70% to 90% of the job, and the rear brake is mostly used as a "brake compensator" or balancer. (which is what it mostly is on a real life sportsbike/racebike)
The rear brake in this game works like a clutch, and not like a rear brake.
Meaning, using combined brakes in this game is comparable to an action where the clutch and brake levers are pressed, all at same time - it's unrealistic and somewhat counter-intuitive.

Therefore, I find using split brakes is the only possible way to go. (to me anyway, YMMV)

I use only the front brake to brake, and I try to be fairly cautious and gentle with it, like one would be IRL. After setting a very low sensitivity (on analog trigger) it works "OK" in terms of effectiveness and immersion. (braking behaviour here is a different mattter, more related w/ physics issues)
ATM, I do use Anti-stoppie at 'Low' as riding assistance, to counter the lack of feeling (which, TBH, I think one could only get with a real life brake lever).

I then only use the rear brake ocasionally and, funny enough, I treat it exactly as a clutch.
I use it mostly to "spike/instigate" revs (like you would IRL on a 2-stroke), or pop-up a wheelie. Sometimes also for "blipping" the throttle when downshifting. (for the non-bikers, think of it as the motorcycle equivalent of the "heel n' toe" technique)

So, used mostly for fun and appreciated for that!

Lidoptics · Jun 2, 2018

DucFreak said:
I think I'm a different case compared to others, in that I'm not after laptimes or game results/recognition. I'm only interested in the best immersion, because I ride in real life and look for something that can relate to the real life experience (with a PC game), while being limited to a gamepad (but with analog controls for brake and throttle).
So, please consider this for the rest of the post.

IMHO, in this game the combined brakes are not really what you encounter in real life.
IRL, the front brake does about 70% to 90% of the job, and the rear brake is mostly used as a "brake compensator" or balancer. (which is what it mostly is on a real life sportsbike/racebike)
The rear brake in this game works like a clutch, and not like a rear brake.
Meaning, using combined brakes in this game is comparable to an action where the clutch and brake levers are pressed, all at same time - it's unrealistic and somewhat counter-intuitive.

Therefore, I find using split brakes is the only possible way to go. (to me anyway, YMMV)

I use only the front brake to brake, and I try to be fairly cautious and gentle with it, like one would be IRL. After setting a very low sensitivity (on analog trigger) it works "OK" in terms of effectiveness and immersion. (braking behaviour here is a different mattter, more related w/ physics issues)
ATM, I do use Anti-stoppie at 'Low' as riding assistance, to counter the lack of feeling (which, TBH, I think one could only get with a real life brake lever).

I then only use the rear brake ocasionally and, funny enough, I treat it exactly as a clutch.
I use it mostly to "spike/instigate" revs (like you would IRL on a 2-stroke), or pop-up a wheelie. Sometimes also for "blipping" the throttle when downshifting. (for the non-bikers, think of it as the motorcycle equivalent of the "heel n' toe" technique) So, used mostly for fun and appreciated for that!

I have to pump the rear brake. On and off, while holding the front brake. It's the only way I get consistent braking.

I also don't care about lap times, just the most authentic experience. I hope they fix things.

s00zster · Jun 3, 2018

Just seen a post from one of the guys at BigBen on Steam from a couple of days ago replying to people's suspicions regarding the code and the engine and the link it might have to the rear wheel physics issue:

"Hey all,

regarding your concerns about the game engine, we've asked the dev team to clarify and here are the main points:
1. The game is based on the KT engine, like all recent games by Kyloton, and there is actually no such thing as “the WRC6 engine”.
2. The physics for the bikes in TT Isle of Man were built from scratch and are not copied from WRC or any other game.
3. You find four wheels because we use the same interface between code and dynamic files for all our games. The difference is that in TT, we only create 2 wheels and use data from only two wheels in the dynamic file.
4. Consequently the bikes do not have four wheels in the code or anywhere else.

We hope this cleared things up and thank you for your feedback, keep it coming."

Good to see they're reading the posts at least, looks like the best place for everyone to give their feedback. Hopefully they'll get the message and do something about it.

DucFreak · Jun 3, 2018

Finally had a quick go on this and, yes... as said above, repacking the files is not possible atm.

Unless it's found a way to make the game read unpacked files on folders, or someone finds a way to repack the files correctly, it seems modding this game will remain nothing but a dream.

s00zster said:
Good to see they're reading the posts at least, looks like the best place for everyone to give their feedback. Hopefully they'll get the message and do something about it.

It is good to know that they post at all but, let's be frank, the level of discussions on Steam discussion boards are know to be quite low level.

At this point in time, where forums like RD have reached a pretty high level of credibility and popularity, one'd have thought developers would be looking into here too.

...oh well, one can hope.

Lidoptics · Jun 3, 2018

s00zster said:
Just seen a post from one of the guys at BigBen on Steam from a couple of days ago replying to people's suspicions regarding the code and the engine and the link it might have to the rear wheel physics issue:

"Hey all,

regarding your concerns about the game engine, we've asked the dev team to clarify and here are the main points:
1. The game is based on the KT engine, like all recent games by Kyloton, and there is actually no such thing as “the WRC6 engine”.
2. The physics for the bikes in TT Isle of Man were built from scratch and are not copied from WRC or any other game.
3. You find four wheels because we use the same interface between code and dynamic files for all our games. The difference is that in TT, we only create 2 wheels and use data from only two wheels in the dynamic file.
4. Consequently the bikes do not have four wheels in the code or anywhere else.

We hope this cleared things up and thank you for your feedback, keep it coming."

Good to see they're reading the posts at least, looks like the best place for everyone to give their feedback. Hopefully they'll get the message and do something about it.

Whatever their excuses are, the bikes still handle like cars. They should have worked on the physics since day one. This isn't just bad for a bike game, these are very, VERY poor physics. The bikes never trip over, even when sideways. Ground up bike physics? No a ****ing chance. Motogp 08 has better physics. Do not listen to anything they say.

I recall teamvvv talking about the game after they first showed gameplay, and they said the bike physics were 10% complete. This wasn't long after it was released.

girlracerTracey · Jun 4, 2018

Here's a fast lap from a Danish friend of mine on PS4..

It took a lot of effort for him to get onto this type of "clean lap" pace using manual passenger movement(s).

Jimmy The Fox · Jun 4, 2018

DucFreak said:
Finally had a quick go on this and, yes... as said above, repacking the files is not possible atm. Unless it's found a way to make the game read unpacked files on folders, or someone finds a way to repack the files correctly, it seems modding this game will remain nothing but a dream.

It should be possible to mod with the cheat engine software, but it'll take time to pin down all the bike parameter addresses

I've started with two easy ones - money and race lap count:
https://www36.zippyshare.com/v/BTdgKPax/file.html

Install cheat engine to use.

There's a limit for how much money is allowed, so if you go over a certain amount it gives you a negative balance. Not sure about laps, but I've done one 30 lap race on the Hertfordshire track as a test and it was perfectly fine.

I think I've found the gameplay camera settings but it needs further testing.

Damage Inc · Jun 7, 2018

Turning right is such a sod, I don't think my thumb is capable of the finesse needed which is a tad irritating.

My sidecars pull to the left I presume this is normal and a quirk of the units layout? Or do I have a problem?

FJBH10 · Jun 7, 2018

Damage Inc said:
Turning right is such a sod, I don't think my thumb is capable of the finesse needed which is a tad irritating.

My sidecars pull to the left I presume this is normal and a quirk of the units layout? Or do I have a problem?

Yeah they pull to the left for me, dunno about how it is IRL but I assume it is due to the drive coming from the right-hand side. Which sidecar are you using? I find the one with the highest handling stat is more forgiving when turning right, if all else fails just try going 10mph slower on right hand corners than you were before. It is really a case of clicking with the physics and is not bad once you have got the hang of it.

Damage Inc · Jun 8, 2018

FJBH10 said:
Yeah they pull to the left for me, dunno about how it is IRL but I assume it is due to the drive coming from the right-hand side. Which sidecar are you using? I find the one with the highest handling stat is more forgiving when turning right, if all else fails just try going 10mph slower on right hand corners than you were before. It is really a case of clicking with the physics and is not bad once you have got the hang of it.

As long as it's not just me!! yeah I use the one with the highest handling, I think it's got a female passenger? I'm putting more hours into the game again after a brief falling out over physics! I'm learning the corners that NEED a slower speed than I think and going from there on all the bikes. Seems to be solving the weird crashes, I think the slow speed physics on the edge of grip and over are a tad bunk, but I'm getting my head around those corners (probably camber/bump related) and going super carefull!