TT Isle of Man - The Game

[Andy_J]

IMO, there’s no reason why this game cannot be totally playable with a standard wheel+pedal combo. The steering algorithms can automatically apply counter-steering and the riders body lean, allowing a player to drive the bike like a car...

This is Kylotonn we are talking about. There is no way on this planet that they could provide a motorcycle simulator with advanced physics that include counter steering. And using a steering wheel and pedals is just silly in my opinion. It's a game and with the lack of proper handlebar/footpeg force feedback systems, a poxy xbox type controller will do. Using a steering wheel for a bike is like using joystick to write with, totally wrong. In my opinion that is.

 

[CC]

This is Kylotonn we are talking about. There is no way on this planet that they could provide a motorcycle simulator with advanced physics that include counter steering. And using a steering wheel and pedals is just silly in my opinion. It's a game and with the lack of proper handlebar/footpeg force feedback systems, a poxy xbox type controller will do. Using a steering wheel for a bike is like using joystick to write with, totally wrong. In my opinion that is.

I mean like if the wheel actually controlled it half decent would you actually want to ride a bike game with it, I highly doubt anyone with common sense would do more than 1 lap ,
and yes I agree bikes games are best with controllers always been the case, like using a fork to butter your toast, yes it works but you just do not get that natural rhythm going like use a plain old knife

 

[billymitchell]

I mean like if the wheel actually controlled it half decent would you actually want to ride a bike game with it, I highly doubt anyone with common sense would do more than 1 lap ,
and yes I agree bikes games are best with controllers always been the case, like using a fork to butter your toast, yes it works but you just do not get that natural rhythm going like use a plain old knife

Steering a motorcycle at +250kph takes an astonishly little amount of input, and subtle brake/throttle manipulation is critical to keeping it on the road.

Console controllers just don’t provide the range of input that a wheel+pedal combo has.

So in your butter knife world, an Xbox Controller is like using a Barbie sized kitchen set while a wheel+pedal combo is a chef’s quality toolset.

[Edit] And yes, the game may not be bread’n’butter worth eating...

 

[FJBH10]

No, but my PS3 plays all ps2 (and slightly upscales them) games because I own one of the original PS3's that had backward compatibility.

Lucky haha!

 

[Andy_J]

So in your butter knife world, an Xbox Controller is like using a Barbie sized kitchen set while a wheel+pedal combo is a chef’s quality toolset.

I don't think you have ever ridden a motorcycle if you think a PC steering wheel is better than a simple controller. Neither is in any way natural but a wheel? Come on. A PC steering wheel does not have the right axis movement, feels so wrong but yes you can I suppose use the brake pedal as a rear brake.

Only a handlebar system (quality type with counter steering capability) and some sort of leaning rider seat and footpegs in which to shift your weight around would ever suffice but in their absence I would say a simple controller would have to do. In my opinion of course.

 

[CC]

Steering a motorcycle at +250kph takes an astonishly little amount of input, and subtle brake/throttle manipulation is critical to keeping it on the road.

Console controllers just don’t provide the range of input that a wheel+pedal combo has.

So in your butter knife world, an Xbox Controller is like using a Barbie sized kitchen set while a wheel+pedal combo is a chef’s quality toolset.

I strongly disagree , I been playing videos games 30 years ,
I started back in the atari days and commodore 64 times with a cassette , controllers and peripherals back then was primitive at best , unless you build a custom rig with a correct riding position maybe on a bike simulator then nothing will be the same as seated and using a wheel and pedals its simply not natural , the feelings are not natural and the steering inputs are not either ,
but in saying this again I strongly believe motion simulators for bikes are no way near as advanced as they are for cars , the market is not big enough compared to cars and karts ,
over the years I must have been on well over 50 different bike simulators they lean wrong and way too laggy and unresponsive ,
I stand by my original post from experience in which is extensive to say the least , to play a bike game even in 2018 the best way to play it would be on a control pad , and we can argue about this until the cows come home makes no difference , lets agree to disagree to use a wheel on a bike game is no enjoyment and not as intended by the developers either .

 

[billymitchell]

I own a motorcycle, and I will agree to disagree.

The bigger question is if Kylotonn and Bigben have made a motorcycle game worth playing at all... and I'm sure there will be lots more hype to read about until its release.

 

[CC]

I own a motorcycle, and I will agree to disagree.

The bigger question is if Kylotonn and Bigben have made a motorcycle game worth playing at all... and I'm sure there will be lots more hype to read about until its release.

You can make all the fancy graphics you want , use a control pad or wheel makes no difference , or build your own , even with godly physics and godly audio and amazing details , those 1st person camera views look nasty to me from previous pages , cameras and bad physics either one will be the end

 

[JPL083]

You mean "virtual Rider".

Yeah... A galaxy sized apologies for a biggest mistake that human has ever done... May i be doomed! Saddest day in my life. Gotta learn the hard way...

 

[Andy_J]

Yeah... A galaxy sized apologies for a biggest mistake that human has ever done... May i be doomed! Saddest day in my life. Gotta learn the hard way...

I guess you do. Consider yourself educated. Apology accepted. Only having a laugh with you. If you want to "drive" a bike, then drive as much as you like.

 

[girlracerTracey]

I don't think you have ever ridden a motorcycle if you think a PC steering wheel is better than a simple controller. Neither is in any way natural but a wheel? Come on. A PC steering wheel does not have the right axis movement, feels so wrong but yes you can I suppose use the brake pedal as a rear brake.

Only a handlebar system (quality type with counter steering capability) and some sort of leaning rider seat and footpegs in which to shift your weight around would ever suffice but in their absence I would say a simple controller would have to do. In my opinion of course.

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons here, whilst I agree with what you are saying, I struggle to understand why so many seem obsessed (not your goodself but others..) with attempting to replicate the real life phenomenon of counter-steering on a racing motorcycle. Or a road bike for that matter also..

In real life on a race track for the overwhelming and most part this is something that is performed subconsciously by the rider/racer. It's automatic. You don't really have to think about it at all.. The only time, arguably, that you make make conscious decisions and "actions" over counter-steering from my experience and from the experience of others who have raced is perhaps when you need to set the bike up for a quick "flick" through a chicane. Then I think you do need to, in a brief second or so, think about what you are doing..

I know a guy who designs and markets a specialised handlebar controller for pc and console m/c "sims" (gpbikes), gp500 and the modern pc/console motorcycle games..I haven't tried it out yet for myself. I remain slightly puzzled however, if I am honest, why counter-steering is so important to people. In real life you don't have to think about it much at all. So why do people need to think about it that much in a racing game? Provided you can control the behaviour of the simulated bike round the track, and you can "tip it in" on corner entry as required..who cares? Is that not simulation enough? When racing one is concentrating far more on tyre grip..

Just to put the cat as I say amongst the pigeons...

p.s. for me a modified gamepad controller is fine. A steering wheel feels a little slow in terms of its steering inputs for me . Particularly on the chicanes and "wiggly" bits. I'm pretty happy with a gamepad tbh until maybe something better comes along in the future..

Just my opinion.

 

[Andy_J]

I completely agree with you Tracy.

 

[gamer19]

Me too.
And (not) just because she's a girl.


Say, Tracey.... when did you said it's your birthday ?

 

[Damage Inc]

yup good post Tracey. On many levels I actually think it's wrong to be controlling the "bike", but more correct to just control the rider. After all the two should be separate physical entities (unlike in a car where the driver is strapped in).

 

[girlracerTracey]

Me too.
And (not) just because she's a girl.


Say, Tracey.... when did you said it's your birthday ?

I wasn't aware of the fact that they (SONY) had even made such a thing.. I had to go onto Amazon to discover exactly what it was. Sheltered life and all that.. By all accounts to be fair to SONY after a fashion it did actually function as intended. So you got me going a bit with that one..lol!

 

[girlracerTracey]

yup good post Tracey. On many levels I actually think it's wrong to be controlling the "bike", but more correct to just control the rider. After all the two should be separate physical entities (unlike in a car where the driver is strapped in).

That's a very fair point. The best that really we have in this respect (aside from DST in gpbikes which for me was really "complicated" to get one's head round..I think I succumbed to "brain overload" when I tried DST for myself..ouch!!..too much thinking required for me!.. lol) is I suppose the limited rider movement(s) available in a game like motogp or RIDE 2 by Milestone.

This is why I run a modified controller with rear paddles so that I make the rider "hang-off" and in effect lean the bike that little bit more through use of a "tuck" button. Also, of course, by pulling back or pushing forwards on the left thumbstick you can also push the virtual rider's weight forwards (to minimise wheelies when getting back on the power on corner exit) or, alternatively, pull back on the thumbstick to move the virtual rider's weight backwards on the bike (to offset the tendency of the rear of the bike to lift into the air on heavy braking). So yes I agree with what you are saying. I think we all do this sort of thing on the m/c racing games since way back when. I did this too also on gp500 by Melbourne House which is as old as the hills now but still good fun and very challenging to race on particularly round the "mini" IOM TT track which I have even raced online on against friends..that really was great fun! And yes on gp500 to go fast it was important to control the rider as well as the bike to achieve competitive laptimes.

For me personally I don't really want anything as complicated as DST in gpbikes but I do enjoy the extra challenge of managing some virtual rider movements independent of the bike itself to squeeze out some faster laptimes and so as to enjoy a little bit more depth to the realism.

This is how someone I used to know on gp500 achieved this..but it's also surprising I think what can be achieved even with just a modified gamepad or a "Scuf" or xbox one elite controller which all give you just a little bit more flexibility over a standard gamepad.

 

[girlracerTracey]

All in all I am just really hoping that this new IOM TT game will give me the same sort of buzz that I have got in the past from gp500.. An IOM TT game for the modern era, if it is any good, would be fantastic..!

 

[gamer19]

I wasn't aware of the fact that they (SONY) had even made such a thing.. I had to go onto Amazon to discover exactly what it was. Sheltered life and all that.. By all accounts to be fair to SONY after a fashion it did actually function as intended. So you got me going a bit with that one..lol!

Wasn't this Playstation only ? And let's not speak about PS right now. Or ...ever.

This is how someone I used to know on gp500 achieved this..

Don't tell me you (used to) knew this guy Tracey. Look at his sock. From a 0:50 onward. Yikes.

This looks really cool, especially for such an old game. Only sound is a... sort of... well... a bit... just like... you know... a bumblebee in a medicine jar. For lack of a better word.


And all your talk on these couple last pages boys (and girls) about hangin', shiftin', leanin', stuff and stuffing... make me came up with actually a perfect moto simulation for all you two wheel perverts. Here's a (working) title:

SIDECAR: Hangin' with REAL driver

Wouldn't this just be great then ?

Leaning all over the track as much as you wish/can, without worrying about steering like at all.
And here's something for Tracey exclusively - Some Sidecar Sistas ! @@

Uber C00l huh.

 

[Andy_J]

This looks really cool, especially for such an old game. Only sound is a... sort of... well... a bit... just like... you know... a bumblebee in a medicine jar. For lack of a better word.

Microprose's GP500 was the first proper motorbike sim. I still have it on my hard drive, heavily modded of course. In fact I still have a big boxed copy in my loft. It was the best at a time when even xbox type controllers did not really exist. I used to use a joystick. And the sound is perfectly adequate because they were two strokes and they sounded very similar to real life.

And as for sidecars, they have been in games previously. I'm not a fan. They don't ride like a bike at all but I still admire the guys and gals that do it especially on the real roads circuits like the TT and the other Northern Ireland road circuits.

 

[gamer19]

That (GP500) game looks really really cool.
As a matter a fact I remember that I used to have it too. Good times.

Ok, I'll take your word about bikes sound, have to agree I'm far from being an expert in that field. I was only a co-driver with my friend and just helping in curves, imagining that I'm a Marc Marquez.
Sidecars... they are interesting sort but tbh I can't imegine that would be a very popular game on Steam, how can anyone? it's for very niche audience. I was just joking regard you all talk about that driver movements should be separated from bike movements. Something I could not even dream about, it was even hard for me to stay on both wheels in MotoGP 2018 and MXGP3 without controling driver movements. Yeah... I suck at moto racing.
Btw, although I have better joysticks (Saitek X52, Microsoft Sidewinder FF), wheel (Logitech G27) and a gamepad, for bike driving I use simple Logitech 3D joystick. It feels the best for me for bikes.

Funny thing... dunno about you boys and girls but I just can't play motoGP from 1st pov, it's just too hard but I take some of (the modified, there's a few mods here on RD) the closest 3rd pov.
And in MXGP it's just the opposite, 3rd pov feels so phoney, somehow, so I just have to use 1st pov and it's so damn immersive with all those curves and oh boy ...jumps !
Something like this: