The SimFeedback-AC DIY Motion Simulator thread

sjb266 · Sep 17, 2018

Hey guys. Thought I’d create a thread for those taking the plunge into this brilliant DIY project..
I will be starting mine soon and I know there are others thinking about it.. so feel free to share your knowledge and experiences so we can all enjoy this platform to its full potential. A huge thanks to the developers who have really knocked this one out of the park!

Website: https://opensfx.com/2019/02/20/welcome-to-our-new-site/

Github: https://github.com/SimFeedback/SimFeedback-AC-Servo/wiki

For all the internals for the actuator contact Amy - skye@ntl-bearing.com
She can supply everything you need. Just remind her you want the ends of the shafts chamfered and make sure she sends the right sized ball screw - we have had a couple of issues reported. She is very helpful though and the cost is pretty good.

Huge thanks to @RowanH for writing a comprehensive user guide which can be accessed here - https://www.rowanhick.com/sfx-100-build-and-running-guide

In addition, @anton_Chez has contributed a list of post numbers for some of the important settings etc..
Post #320 SFX-100 thread
Post #327 SFX-100 thread for Discord correlation
Post #339 SFX-100 thread
Post #418 SFX-100 thread
Post #424 SFX-100 thread
Post #439 SFX-100 thread
Post #449 SFX-100 thread
Post #517 SFX-100 thread
Post #554 SFX-100 thread
Post #580 SFX-100 thread
Post #826 SFX-100 thread
Post #837 SFX-100 thread
Post #864,866,867,868,870,887,889,897 SFX-100 thread
Post #911,914 SFX-100 thread
Post #988,992,998 SFX-100 thread
Post #1147 SFX-100 thread
Post #1492 SFX-100 thread
Post #1511,1517 SFX-100 thread

I will try to keep this page updated with links to source the parts in other parts of the world. Just post whatever links you have and i'll add them here.

Please note: Not all the parts listed below are essential for the project. For the essential parts refer to the original shopping list.

Australia:

Thanks to @AussieSim for the following links:

10A power lead(s) * 4
https://www.jaycar.com.au/2m-black-mains-extension-lead/p/PS4152

Top quality wire stripper
https://sydneytools.com.au/product/boxo-cutws205-multifunction-wire-stripper

RCD/safety switch power block
https://www.bunnings.com.au/arlec-4-outlet-heavy-duty-portable-safety-switch_p4420028

WD-40 lithium grease for the ball screws
https://www.bunnings.com.au/wd-40-specialist-300g-high-performance-white-lithium-grease_p6100408

Vibration pads
https://www.bunnings.com.au/whites-on-site-100-x-12-5mm-rubber-anti-vibration-mat-4-pack_p3961547

WD-40 Dry PTFE spray for the slider (free shipping)
https://au.rs-online.com/mobile/p/lubricants/7577134/

Arduino Leonardo (free shipping + frequent 10-15% off discount)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/a000057/arduino-corporation

DB25 cables * 4 (free shipping)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/ak401-2/assmann-wsw-components-inc

PETG * 3 (free shipping)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/petg17bk1/mg-chemicals

WAGO-like connectors to avoid a breadboard (perhaps use genuine ones if you are doing 240V AC)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32906719488.html

D-Sub breakout boards * 4
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32297675967.html

3D printer Creality Ender-3 Pro
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32918302452.html

Wires from Arduino to D-Sub breakout (remove black plastic from the WAGO end)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887680826.html

Crimp connectors for AC wire leads
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32813550981.html

HugoB · Oct 11, 2018

HoiHman said:
Did a quick test this morning a created a "Silent mode" which should be on par with the sound levels of the NLMV3.

The rig is still for about 60% finished, but already drivable.

Nice! Though is it still more immersive, or enjoyable than NLMV3 in this mode?

HoiHman · Oct 11, 2018

hugo bokhorst said:
Nice! Though is it still more immersive, or enjoyable than NLMV3 in this mode?

Not really to be honest.

As you can see in the video i'm not in the rig

Mascot · Oct 11, 2018

HoiHman said:
Not really to be honest.

As you can see in the video i'm not in the rig

Seriously though, is the experience severely compromised by dialling down the settings like this? If I built one of these I'd hate to have a lesser experience because of where I'd have to put it, ie in an upstairs room on a floor suspended on timber joists.

HoiHman · Oct 11, 2018

Eventhough, it looked like i was joking. I wasn't

I haven't tried the motion with turned down settings. There obviously will be a difference, but it's never as loud as the SCN actuators

anton_Chez · Oct 11, 2018

No matter how far you turn the settings down, it's still going to feel different than the V3. The pitch under braking is going to feel different. You're still going to get heave on this whereas with the V3 it's simulated heave, in terms of bumps and kerbs. Real heave is impossible on the V3. So I'd say not having your body thrust closer to the wheel and your legs cramped up (depending on your intensity settings obviously) to the pedals while under big braking force sure will feel different.

The capabilities of each system are different, it's not like the V3 is a less powerful D-Box. Obviously. I dare say most users would eventually opt for a smoother, more relaxed motion experience, especially when actually racing. It's a liablity in most ways when you run motion racing against static rig drivers. There's just more to deal with. Authentic as it may be.

RaceNut · Oct 11, 2018

The rig is looking great already @HoiHman. Give yourself some time to settle into what this design has to offer; no doubt, it's different but, I love what the vertical actuator-based systems can do although, I'm sure the seat-movers can produce some very dramatic movements.

The surge-effects and over-steer effects are going to be less intense than the seat-mover but, combined with the G-seat, I think it'll balance out quite nicely in the end. The heave motion is a key benefit of these rigs imo, and sustained G-forces are much harder to achieve but, I think you are on a good path with your setup.

Some builders are adding additional axis' for surge and rear traction-loss but, those are still momentary effects by nature and have their limitations too. Your setup should provide a broad scope of feedback effects.

HoiHman · Oct 12, 2018

Thanks Dean,

I like the new motion system a lot, but without my GS-4 it's hard to tell how good it really is compared to the NLMv3.

Heave is obviously them main difference and in my opinion RTC can be felt pretty good with the SFX100 too. There's a lot more detail than can be felt with chassismover.

The seat movers feel much more intense during sway and surge. I guess you can also feel them much better because only your upper half is moving with can be felt a lot better than when your whole body is moving. This morning i tried AC in VR with sway and almost didn't notice it was on, but when taking the rift of i did see the whole rig was leaning to left and right.

Surge can be set pretty intense on the SFX100, i have yet to experience a setting that gives me the same feeling of sway compared to the seatmover. That being said, in the NLMv3 i had actually turned down the sway effects and let the GS-4 do that job during the entire corner.

Don't mistake my initial findings as review, because i have only scratched the surface of what is possible with the simfeedback software.

I'm still in the testing phase. For me the most important task right now is to finish the rig and set the mobile rig up is such a way that's it very easy to "go from office to race rig"`

This still means a lot of wiring and optimisation. Currently i'm down from 20 minutes to only 5-10

When you press the start button in the software the whole platform raises 5 cm. You can slide a cart underneath and press the stop button which automatically lowers the entire rig on your cart. It's amazing how good that actually works.

The goal is to have things setup and running under 3 minutes.

anton_Chez · Oct 12, 2018

I think a well formed tactile build could aid with the surge and G-force feeling. You can generate sustained energy with tactile you are unable to achieve with motion. SSW gives us that option but the tones need to be hand crafted to give you the best feelings. I use it for braking G force and it works quite nicely even on Mini LFE's. It complements the pitch forward from the seat.

Chris_I · Oct 12, 2018

HoiHman said:
I'm still in the testing phase. For me the most important task right now is to finish the rig and set the mobile rig up is such a way that's it very easy to "go from office to race rig"`

This still means a lot of wiring and optimisation. Currently i'm down from 20 minutes to only 5-10

When you press the start button in the software the whole platform raises 5 cm. You can slide a cart underneath and press the stop button which automatically lowers the entire rig on your cart. It's amazing how good that actually works.

The goal is to have things setup and running under 3 minutes.

Have a look at "foldable" or retractable caster wheels.

Mascot · Oct 12, 2018

Chris_I said:
Have a look at "foldable" or retractable caster wheels.

Was just about to suggest the same thing..!

Chris_I · Oct 12, 2018

And maybe some kind of patch panel with neutrik connectors (https://www.neutrik.com/en/neutrik/products/multimedia-connectors/usb).

On the rig side all the wires are connected to the back of these patch panel housings (which have reversable connectors) and you only have to plug in cables from your pc on the patch panel. They have connectors for all kinds of usage like multimedia, audio, data, power, ...

Mascot · Oct 12, 2018

HoiHman said:
When you press the start button in the software the whole platform raises 5 cm. You can slide a cart underneath and press the stop button which automatically lowers the entire rig on your cart. It's amazing how good that actually works.

To be honest I kinda thought you'd just program a 'move to the other room' profile into the actuators...

sjb266 · Oct 12, 2018

Henk the suspense is killing me... i'm balls deep here...!

do you regret your decision to sell the V3 and build this?

sjb266 · Oct 12, 2018

Mascot said:
To be honest I kinda thought you'd just program a 'move to the other room' profile into the actuators...

This is about the best post i've ever seen!

HugoB · Oct 12, 2018

sjb266 said:
Henk the suspense is killing me... i'm balls deep here...!

do you regret your decision to sell the V3 and build this?

I’d say there are three factors in play:

Immersion
Realism
Fun

Some prioritize one over the other, some call one thing realistic and fun, while the other calls it realistic but not fun. Fun is a very subjective factor, while realism can be objectively confirmed. Immersion is also a play between all different gear and if they are in harmony or if they are working against each other. And its subjective.

IMHO no one single piece of gear can give the best available for all three. I truly believe the NLV3 is doing a very good job, better than most out there. But for me ‘heave’ is such an important component for immersion and realism, that I couldn’t do without it. I have already calculated my budget to include the GS-5 seat when it comes available, to fill in the void (that NLV3 would have covered) for G-forces. Then only tactile remains. It depends if the SFX100 can deliver enough of that, otherwise a little cherry topping is needed with Buttkickers.

If you could only choose one: NLV3 or these SFX100 and nothing else, it might depend on your priorities and your belief, what constitutes immersion, realism or fun.

</rant>

Michal Burisin · Oct 12, 2018

HoiHman said:
Thanks Dean,

I like the new motion system a lot, but without my GS-4 it's hard to tell how good it really is compared to the NLMv3.

Heave is obviously them main difference and in my opinion RTC can be felt pretty good with the SFX100 too. There's a lot more detail than can be felt with chassismover.

The seat movers feel much more intense during sway and surge. I guess you can also feel them much better because only your upper half is moving with can be felt a lot better than when your whole body is moving. This morning i tried AC in VR with sway and almost didn't notice it was on, but when taking the rift of i did see the whole rig was leaning to left and right.

Surge can be set pretty intense on the SFX100, i have yet to experience a setting that gives me the same feeling of sway compared to the seatmover. That being said, in the NLMv3 i had actually turned down the sway effects and let the GS-4 do that job during the entire corner.

Don't mistake my initial findings as review, because i have only scratched the surface of what is possible with the simfeedback software.

I'm still in the testing phase. For me the most important task right now is to finish the rig and set the mobile rig up is such a way that's it very easy to "go from office to race rig"`

This still means a lot of wiring and optimisation. Currently i'm down from 20 minutes to only 5-10

When you press the start button in the software the whole platform raises 5 cm. You can slide a cart underneath and press the stop button which automatically lowers the entire rig on your cart. It's amazing how good that actually works.

The goal is to have things setup and running under 3 minutes.

Thanks for write up!

I'm still thinking about using SFX as just seat mover, from your recent experience, do you think it's absolute nonsense or it could have some benefits?

From what I see:

Benefits:

In comparison with NLRv3:

heave
not as big changing distance from wheel and pedals during acceleration / breaking, due to front actuators going down and back actuators going up and vice versa as opposed to single joint below the seat. Same would apply for roll and other axis. This would allow for bigger angles without the negative big change of distance.

In comparison with chassis mover:

only body moves - more pronounced roll, surge, breaking etc., better feeling of g-forces
not whole weight of rig need to move (not that actuators couldn't handle it, but it could possibly be quieter / have less vibrations / be faster)
less necessary footprint for whole rig

Negatives:

In comparison with NLMV3:

I can't see any

In comparison with chassis mover:

only body moves - changing distance between wheel and pedals, but not as much as NLRv3 for surge and roll, added changing distance for heave, this could be also taken as positive as seen above
heave not felt on pedals and wheel
need to have space for heave under the wheel for legs

I can see it could work very well in theory. Anybody got idea if this should be worth trying?

I will run tactile + g-seat so the smaller range of roll and pitch doesn't have to be big negative, but still got me thinking if the benefits does out weight the negatives.

I haven't seen many configurations as I'm describing. Just this one:

and the movement is looking great.

Anybody got some ideas on this? Especially from someone who can compare seat mover to chassis mover? Whould you find missing heave on wheel and pedals as big negative, as I think it's the biggest issue in solution I'm describing. If it wouldn't be that big of a issue, the benefits may then clearly outweight the negatives for me.

Ultimate solution would be SFX chassis mover and another SFX on top of it as seat mover, but that might be slight overkill

Ringorian · Oct 12, 2018

I also Had the simukit 120w and 400w and also Frex Simconmotion Long Time ago .. First i used the simukit AS seatmover but after weeks i build a Plattform mover with that, i never was Into that sway Thing really much .. Somebody Said a seatmover with heave ist Like a Bus Seat with this easy cheesy springs for the drivers comfort.
I only use Roll and traction loss on that axe ..

Michal Burisin · Oct 12, 2018

Ringorian said:
I also Had the simukit 120w and 400w and also Frex Simconmotion Long Time ago .. First i used the simukit AS seatmover but after weeks i build a Plattform mover with that, i never was Into that sway Thing really much .. Somebody Said a seatmover with heave ist Like a Bus Seat with this easy cheesy springs for the drivers comfort.
I only use Roll and traction loss on that axe ..

Thanks, the image of spring on seat like in bus is instant turn off, wouldn't want that

So I suppose I'll go with chassis mover then.

Ringorian · Oct 12, 2018

Maybe you should start seeing / trying it differend ways with the sfx100

ColinMac · Oct 12, 2018

As far as seat movers go - has anyone had a look (or tried) the DOF system?

It's much cheaper than NLV3 but seems to be similar in operation ?

https://dofreality.com/#m2

I'd certainly be interested in any opinions, especially folks who have V3's.