The SimFeedback-AC DIY Motion Simulator thread

sjb266 · Sep 17, 2018

Hey guys. Thought I’d create a thread for those taking the plunge into this brilliant DIY project..
I will be starting mine soon and I know there are others thinking about it.. so feel free to share your knowledge and experiences so we can all enjoy this platform to its full potential. A huge thanks to the developers who have really knocked this one out of the park!

Website: https://opensfx.com/2019/02/20/welcome-to-our-new-site/

Github: https://github.com/SimFeedback/SimFeedback-AC-Servo/wiki

For all the internals for the actuator contact Amy - skye@ntl-bearing.com
She can supply everything you need. Just remind her you want the ends of the shafts chamfered and make sure she sends the right sized ball screw - we have had a couple of issues reported. She is very helpful though and the cost is pretty good.

Huge thanks to @RowanH for writing a comprehensive user guide which can be accessed here - https://www.rowanhick.com/sfx-100-build-and-running-guide

In addition, @anton_Chez has contributed a list of post numbers for some of the important settings etc..
Post #320 SFX-100 thread
Post #327 SFX-100 thread for Discord correlation
Post #339 SFX-100 thread
Post #418 SFX-100 thread
Post #424 SFX-100 thread
Post #439 SFX-100 thread
Post #449 SFX-100 thread
Post #517 SFX-100 thread
Post #554 SFX-100 thread
Post #580 SFX-100 thread
Post #826 SFX-100 thread
Post #837 SFX-100 thread
Post #864,866,867,868,870,887,889,897 SFX-100 thread
Post #911,914 SFX-100 thread
Post #988,992,998 SFX-100 thread
Post #1147 SFX-100 thread
Post #1492 SFX-100 thread
Post #1511,1517 SFX-100 thread

I will try to keep this page updated with links to source the parts in other parts of the world. Just post whatever links you have and i'll add them here.

Please note: Not all the parts listed below are essential for the project. For the essential parts refer to the original shopping list.

Australia:

Thanks to @AussieSim for the following links:

10A power lead(s) * 4
https://www.jaycar.com.au/2m-black-mains-extension-lead/p/PS4152

Top quality wire stripper
https://sydneytools.com.au/product/boxo-cutws205-multifunction-wire-stripper

RCD/safety switch power block
https://www.bunnings.com.au/arlec-4-outlet-heavy-duty-portable-safety-switch_p4420028

WD-40 lithium grease for the ball screws
https://www.bunnings.com.au/wd-40-specialist-300g-high-performance-white-lithium-grease_p6100408

Vibration pads
https://www.bunnings.com.au/whites-on-site-100-x-12-5mm-rubber-anti-vibration-mat-4-pack_p3961547

WD-40 Dry PTFE spray for the slider (free shipping)
https://au.rs-online.com/mobile/p/lubricants/7577134/

Arduino Leonardo (free shipping + frequent 10-15% off discount)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/a000057/arduino-corporation

DB25 cables * 4 (free shipping)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/ak401-2/assmann-wsw-components-inc

PETG * 3 (free shipping)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/petg17bk1/mg-chemicals

WAGO-like connectors to avoid a breadboard (perhaps use genuine ones if you are doing 240V AC)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32906719488.html

D-Sub breakout boards * 4
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32297675967.html

3D printer Creality Ender-3 Pro
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32918302452.html

Wires from Arduino to D-Sub breakout (remove black plastic from the WAGO end)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32887680826.html

Crimp connectors for AC wire leads
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32813550981.html

sebna · Oct 8, 2018

HoiHman said:
Got my very first official drive with the SFX100 Actuators today.

Overall experience : Very positive.

The motion is really good and very easy to tune. Today i was running on 1500rpm max, but tommorow i will try the 3000rpm.

Only in the very last lap i did this with the HPD on the Nordschleife i was amazed. Untill then i was too much being busy tuning the motion to my liking and not letting myself enjoy it by just finishing the lap.

There's a lot of potential to be reached. I also got a profiile from Jochen and i am looking forward to give it a try asap.

But... to fully enjoy it, there still lot's of work to be done. The GS-4 has a defect controlboard and is not working. I still need to mount the windsim and my seating / pedal position needs a lot of improvement.

If this all comes together ...

i'm in heaven

Looking forward to impressions from 3k RPM

RaceNut · Oct 8, 2018

I know that the tactile-effect related discussion should split-off soon but, I would just like to add that I rode in a friend's' car yesterday in an Autocross event and the chassis-vibrations that occurred during under-steer were very obvious and were eerily similar to what I get using the D-box system. Not all titles support the effect or only partially but, it's one to have where possible imo.

I too, look forward to seeing what settings can be tuned in software because having that extra ability to tune both tactile and motion for various car-types, race events, etc., is something that I feel is sometimes too limited (such as the case with D-box).

Also, greater tuning options allows for improved synchronization between the various feedback sources, wheel / Chassis / audio, etc. Immersion is greatly improved when everything sync's well.

HoiHman · Oct 8, 2018

I just want to explain why there are no updates about the driving experience at the moment.

The rig is not finished. While taking the first drive i had some issues that reduce the driving experience:

- Seat position was not correct
- Could not adjust my seat
- No Simwind
- No buttkickers (

)
- slight wobble in wheel deck
- GS-4 not working
- Monitor too far away
- Pedal mounting not right
- ect ect

The motion is great, but i just can't fully enjoy the whole experience until the most important isssues are solved.

So i have made new 1cm thick brackets for the wheel deck. I thick now you can tow a truck with it.

A couple of hours running almost ruined the carpet even though i already had made some plates for under the feet.

So i have to find a solution for that to.

I probably need another couple of days for i can do the next run.

cprelot · Oct 8, 2018

Hey guy's I just canceled my Servo's orders..because I need more time to investigate the compatibility with Canada/usa power rated...they seems fine but the output from my outlet is 244V on the multi-meter and the driver/ACservo is 220V -10/+10% rated
witch is going to work at limit operation voltage , david Liu from the shoping list (Aliexpress) his very kind ,he told me they test the servo before shipping to me close to 250V and it's get to safe mode and bip sound and not working...
instead to order 4 of them I will maybe order only one unit to test first to make sure it's working under +240V
I know must of you are from UK european side witch I think you voltage output 220/230V ish
or do you think I just not to be worry and it should be fine?

sjb266 · Oct 9, 2018

This is looking ridiculously good!

sjb266 · Oct 9, 2018

Ok so got the new 3D printer sorted and finished my first piece in PETG - I'm new to 3D printing so it was a fun challenge! The other 3 are printing now... and then on to the big pieces..

Mr Latte · Oct 9, 2018

This is from the same guy of video above....

In the video he shows Tactile Options which appear to be the same as others, so this is the point I was referring too.

Just like D-Box or VR3 it appears the user cannot select many options to modify the sensation felt to something else with a different character altogether. Mainly just the intensity and possibly some form of threshold control for smoothing. I will wait for better confirmation but while the motion looks great, it's a let down if this is all that's possible regards the tactile side of things.

So I would presume from a tactile perspective while this may be able to output a very strong sensation for bumps. Its engine may be limited and it will not deliver anything close to the detailing or general effects possible with the current best software options we already have with using tactile transducers. (Simvibe / Shakeit / SSW / Audio)

The point I have been raising and STILL nobody here with motion experience seems to want to answer, is how with motion does a track car to a sports car feel different and If based on the same general car. Take any GT3 based car and compare it to the standard car for showrooms. By all means anyone with motion is welcome to give their opinions, it's not an unreasonable thing to query.

I question this as it is something I have an interest in improving with current tactile options. By creating specific effects (if desired) for some different cars/sensations. It is possible to have very different characters from the tactile in doing this and not just differences in felt strength. Its one of the elements I enjoy having some control in but personally feel is one of the additions tactile can bring to immersion.

Yes indeed, some may say "but how can your settings be accurate", my answer is it doesn't necessarily have to be accurate and be very enjoyable or entertaining. Sure it can attempt to be believable as immersion and reality are not always the same. One example of this is, Simvibes engine effectss are nothing close to the real cars (more of the cars individual character comes from audio tactile) but we can alter the engine effects to suit more one type of engine/car to another or tweak to a users enjoyed preference. Neither of which may be "accurate" but certainly enhancing the experience and immersion.

To say this replaces the need for other tactile I think is utter bollocks, well at least if the user has had or seeks a high-end level of tactile immersion but we will see. Clearly if, using "Shakeit" or "SSW" via their own effects for Lateral G & Longitudinal G based effects combined with this motion, with decent tactile hardware, it would only enhance things greatly, no question, never mind what can be done with additional bumps/road surface or engine/gear sensations which are possible but seem to be not available here.

Both I think are needed to get the best immersion...
I can see me being interested in adding at some point, a motion option like this to the tactile I have but no way would I want to have less tactile than I am currently experiencing.

Kaygeeoh · Oct 9, 2018

Hi guys, what is the internal diameter of the hollow shaft?
diameter = 30mm / length = 270mm / chamfer (both sides)

sjb266 · Oct 9, 2018

Depends on supplier. Just needs to be about 18mm or greater.

Kaygeeoh · Oct 9, 2018

sjb266 said:
Depends on supplier. Just needs to be about 18mm or greater.

Thank you

anton_Chez · Oct 9, 2018

I've said on numerous occasions that the V3 translates the motion of different cars how you would expect. A street car translates more subtle movement, feels more relaxed when compared to a GT3 car of the same nature. The GT3 car feels more alive, more tighly sprung, the left to right movement and also the acceleration can be felt much more prominently. In other words, it's gives the same sensation that you would expect when stepping into the real life counterpart. I'm not saying it's perfect, but the difference can certainly be felt. This is even more enhanced by the fact you can tune the settings to enhance what feeling is already provided. Given that the platform works from telemetry, it's hardly a suprise that a 911 street car feels far less nimble and reactive than it's RSR counterpart.

The settings we have now available in the software really allow the user to get the mose out of the V3 platform. I have no doubt that the same will be said for the Sim Feedback units (if that's what they're called, I don't even know!) and the features we will be able to tune in it's software.

Long story long, without touching the software AT ALL, the cars feel different and in a way you would expect them to be in real life. In my experience.

Mr Latte · Oct 9, 2018

anton_Chez said:
I've said on numerous occasions that the V3 translates the motion of different cars how you would expect. A street car translates more subtle movement, feels more relaxed when compared to a GT3 car of the same nature. The GT3 car feels more alive, more tighly sprung, the left to right movement and also the acceleration can be felt much more prominently. In other words, it's gives the same sensation that you would expect when stepping into the real life counterpart. I'm not saying it's perfect, but the difference can certainly be felt. This is even more enhanced by the fact you can tune the settings to enhance what feeling is already provided. Given that the platform works from telemetry, it's hardly a suprise that a 911 street car feels far less nimble and reactive than it's RSR counterpart.

The settings we have now available in the software really allow the user to get the mose out of the V3 platform. I have no doubt that the same will be said for the Sim Feedback units (if that's what they're called, I don't even know!) and the features we will be able to tune in it's software.

Long story long, without touching the software AT ALL, the cars feel different and in a way you would expect them to be in real life. In my experience.

Telemetry values are higher with cars creating more forces, as expected this in turn then would increase the potential degrees of movement and the rate/speed or force being applied. Surely those, however, are mimicking the chassis or suspension they are not enabling major differences in the "character" of the car?

What your telling me is, if you were blind folded and someone selected two rather different cars, then you could tell which is which, just based on the motion?

I get what your saying, I feel very different degrees of force with the "G" effects from different cars even with the tactile. My point is the motion is always doing the same things, it has a range of travel it can operate with, it has a range of speed, it has a range of force.

What I am say is the same happens with tactile as the telemetry is converted to suit audio Hz and dB. However what is different with tactile is we can totally change the "sensation" for the effect being represented or activated, this is what I mean about changing the character. Its not just differences in force/speed or degrees.

Basically tactile being by its nature it can bring more variations to the sensory feedback, especially if we have control over the created effects used. Therefore the response can be very different as its audio based. If we can add even greater additional or different character using tactile with the motion then the result is going to be improved. Its not about one Vs the other its how we advance each to combine in something greater.

RaceNut · Oct 9, 2018

With the D-box system, of course I can feel the differences in suspension characteristics related to stiffness and weight transfer, brake-dive, etc. In addition, I can feel the rev-limiter engaging / engine-stutter, Engine Class (6-cyl vs V-8, or 12-cyl), road-bumps and surface detail may vary from road cars vs race cars (as in AC). Some titles have an effective shift-bump effect while others may not; R3E easily has the best drive-train modeling as it can be clearly felt through the D-box system, even to the point of lurching back and forth, at low RPM's.

From the tactile perspective, I'd say the D-box is quite good overall but, not quite as detailed or versatile as an effective tactile setup, the tuning options are much more limited, and support for effects can vary a lot from one title to another. The adjustment range in software is largely limited to the overall intensity and (in some cases), balance of combined effects. There are no specific settings related to smoothing so I think the engineers tune for an overall average but, stiff suspension cars do tend to convey a harsher ride quality and may need to have the intensity lowered for best results.

Overall, getting good results with the D-box tuning options is quite easy as very few titles require much fuss at all although, I do find it useful to make some custom profiles for the more extreme car-classes (Formula cars for example).

Mr Latte · Oct 9, 2018

RaceNut said:
With the D-box system, of course I can feel the differences in suspension characteristics related to stiffness and weight transfer, brake-dive, etc. In addition, I can feel the rev-limiter engaging / engine-stutter, Engine Class (6-cyl vs V-8, or 12-cyl), road-bumps and surface detail may vary from road cars vs race cars (as in AC). Some titles have an effective shift-bump effect while others may not; R3E easily has the best drive-train modeling as it can be clearly felt through the D-box system, even to the point of lurching back and forth, at low RPM's.

From the tactile perspective, I'd say the D-box is quite good overall but, not quite as detailed or versatile as an effective tactile setup, the tuning options are much more limited, and support for effects can vary a lot from one title to another. The adjustment range in software is largely limited to the overall intensity and (in some cases), balance of combined effects. There are no specific settings related to smoothing so I think the engineers tune for an overall average but, stiff suspension cars do tend to convey a harsher ride quality and may need to have the intensity lowered for best results.

Overall, getting good results with the D-box tuning options is quite easy as very few titles require much fuss at all although, I do find it useful to make some custom profiles for the more extreme car-classes (Formula cars for example).

Thanks for giving more insight into this regards settings.
I would assume that with the controls you have, you can feel the acceleration and the rig at the rear dipping up to a certain speed. This may vary based on the settings used. Likewise when braking the front end will dip down. For Lateral G the same applies for Left/Right based on the steering input. I assume then the amount will be determined by the settings and the telemetry values different cars generate, yes?

Help me wrap my head around this.... Can you or others clarify if we take the range of force/movement possible to be on a scale of 1-10 and on this scale if car A it is able to factor an average of 8-10. Yet on car B it will only average a factor of 4-6. In such an example using this scale both cars could reach 1-2-3-4-5-6 and then feel about the same but while it is nearer the peak output of one (B) and much less % on the others potential output (A) . Each car could share a certain amount of similar sensations just that one would have higher levels as an average but also higher peak output as well.

Or are you telling me that the sensations between car (A) and car (B) are entirely different, they are not just angle/force/speed based?

With tactile and in particular with SSW using waveforms creation, we can totally control/change (moreso than with tone generation) the "source output" that is used within the scale regards its "waveform". In this scenario while the cars may have very different averages or peak outputs the actual sensation may be different altogether.

It could even be similar if wanted but have distinct differences or use very different layers of audio that gives each its own unique feel/sensations/character. Not just the same thing with deeper bass or stronger intensity/output. This like many other things regards how effects operation can be output on the different channels is examples of what this motion tactile solution does not seem capable of offering with the options or possibilities we can already get with specialist tactile options and some creativity.

So I can't say at the moment I see anything yet to make me agree with the comment made on i-racing forums and shared above that I would want to use this with the motion only tactile and not combine it with specific tactile software hardware. While this solution may have lots of potential power I think it really depends on what the users past experience with tactile has been for each user to determine if they want more effects or possibilities.

The possibilities of marrying both high-end tactile with high-end motion is fascinating but few seem to do it to the true potential. Simvibe only as a solution or example to compare against (which most use) is flawed as it is lacking any ability to offer increased potential for boosting the immersion of the very "G" force sensations we are discussing.

Ringorian · Oct 9, 2018

Can Somebody write in 2 sentences what the Things Mr. Latte wrote have to do with this Project ? Its guessing this and that.
Its no competition to anything, its diy. if Somebody wanna Go with additional 8 shakers, Go for it .. its Just the taste of everybody .. dbox ist still the best Out of the Box solution .. but thats not the Point.
Build em and use them or dont .. Nobody has to. As already asked start your own thread about if tactile and motion should be mixed in any way .Peace..

Mr Latte · Oct 9, 2018

I wont take the discussion further if its annoying some of you.
I will even delete the posts if requested...

The idea was to determine what THIS brings in immersion, not just with the motion which indeed I would expect is the PRIMARY intention and focus for following this project or getting such.

However for some, part of that will also be to determine what it offers to OTHER motion options as a complete package.

I am sure some will have some interests of taking the tactile in what it does offer potentially further, my comments do not intend to put down what this option offers, as all other motion options seem limited too. However, I DID want to grasp more peoples experiences and opinions on what both motion or tactile brings and how they may vary.

The OP will be using this with a GS4 and possibly GS5 eventually and with the current tactile he owns as he has already alluded too. Therefore I await his own views on how each differs and compares if he wants to share them in due course.

Ringorian · Oct 9, 2018

Jepp, will be nice If Henk gives us His experience with all of His Toys thrown together .. Maybe language barriere, But why Not Open A thread for grasping peoples experience with any Motion combined with any tactile and other Toys.?

RaceNut · Oct 9, 2018

I won't get into the particulars related to tactile but, I do think personal experience plays a large part in how far the actuator type rigs can go to satisfy our desire for both types of feedback.

I do feel that a combination of Actuators / G-seat / tactile would be the best setup for me personally but, some that use a seat mover may feel that is too tame for them. Henk's feedback is extremely relevant to me as well, for that reason among others.

Regarding the D-box system, it seems to me that there is more than simple travel-percentages at work among different cars; the firmness of bumps can also be felt with stiffer suspensions, while using the same game profile so actuator acceleration and velocity are also factors although, how they are tuned by the engineers remains a bit of a mystery.

HoiHman · Oct 9, 2018

Did the second test drive today, using Jochens profile and it felt really good. Here are my basic findings.

On his advice i turned it all the way up to 3000rpm, after initial testing at 1200rpm.

It's unbelievable that a rig that is so heavy that i can not lift it, can move so fast. When driving on track you don't immediately feel the difference between 1200 and 3000, but when you offtrack af high speed.........

You will

So after 15min of driving and going of track a couple of times, i noticed that the rig had moved about 15cm. It moved of the special plates i put it on to protect the carpet, which is now destroyed.

The motion is so fast and violent that the special brackets for the windsimulator did not manage to keep the seaflow fans straight. So i have to redesign them.

The software is pretty straight forward to use, but i still need to learn a lot.

I could not get RPM and Rumble to work on the Actuators and have reported it in the owners discord channel. Not sure if its's a software issue or me doing something wrong.

Heave, is the "main" effect for this kind of motion, since you basically simulating the suspension of the car. Roll, pitch, surge are all great, but i could not get sway to work in such a way that i really feel it. This is probably because i'm not entirely famliar with simfeedback yet.

Without starting a discusion about the difference between seatmovers and chassismovers, from my experience the main difference in general is that seat movers try to simulate G-Forces and the chassismovers try to simulate the suspension.

For me personally the cornering G-force is not THAT important. As soon as my GS-4 is fixed, it will do the "cornering G-forces" for me. The combination will be awesome, there's no doubt about it.

This is for me the ideal setup:

SFX-100 : Heave, Pitch, Surge ect.
GS-4 : Sway ( cornering G-forces)
Simvibe / Tactile transducers in simfeedback: Engine RPM

The windsim is great too, but on the new rig the sealfows cause a speedbased vibration that i can feel really good and it interfers with motion clues. This is also why i do not think that a lot of tactile should be added to the motion, but like jochen already mentioned that needs it's own topic.

In theorie i could let the GS-4, simvibe AND the SFX100 all do the same roadbumps, but.... why should if the Aktuators are doing a great job by themselves?

Is it everything i hoped it would be.?

Yes, and even more.. But... the works that needs to be done is much more too

The challenge is to transport this rig from an other room and make it "race ready" in under 5 minutes.

That stil needs a lot of work.