Physics The Physics discussion thread

[David Dominguez]

From that should we then conclude that AC is just another so-so PC car game, and not much of a simulator at all? - which is one of Kunos' advertised claims - I think it is right there in the name

So are Automobilista and iRacing, following your logic.

 

[RC45]

Isn't car upgrade system exactly a thing that is found in more "arcadey" games but not in any modern sim?

No - car upgrade test and validation is a very specific use for a simulation based system.

In fact this is the original reason why we started using rFactor in the first place.

To be able to test and validate gearing, wheel, brake and aerodynamic changes we made to our track cars before making big commitments to physically changing the cars.

It was very convenient to package these changes into the menu system and have them available from a pick list to be able to mix and match rather than spend hours rebuilding each and every combo as a complete car.

18" square setup using 315 wide tyres all round and 3.42 diff and then trying 17" 18" wheel combo with 3.73 diff and then going back to 18" square and Z06 transmission ratios versus coupe ratios.

And then to be able to look at changed power curves from cam and intake mods to see which engine, gearing, wheel/tyre combo was suited to which track.

The added bonus is that most of our local road courses in Texas where modeled for rFactor so we could also use rFactor for track prep and getting back into the groove of specific tracks.

I had hoped Assetto Corsa could be used in the same way, the bonus was going to be the added eye candy - but after discovering that so many "design decisions" where made that actually remove many of the simulation value and really turn AC into "great game".

Now granted, from consumer sales perspective, that is the way to go - as can be seen by the cash flow that AC generates with sales and DLC - the model works well for both buyers and sellers - AC is a cool looking and semi-sim game.

But it is not that great as a car development tool - I wish it was but it is not.

 

[Radu Oros]

No - car upgrade test and validation is a very specific use for a simulation based system.

In fact this is the original reason why we started using rFactor in the first place.

To be able to test and validate gearing, wheel, brake and aerodynamic changes we made to our track cars before making big commitments to physically changing the cars.

It was very convenient to package these changes into the menu system and have them available from a pick list to be able to mix and match rather than spend hours rebuilding each and every combo as a complete car.

18" square setup using 315 wide tyres all round and 3.42 diff and then trying 17" 18" wheel combo with 3.73 diff and then going back to 18" square and Z06 transmission ratios versus coupe ratios.

And then to be able to look at changed power curves from cam and intake mods to see which engine, gearing, wheel/tyre combo was suited to which track.

The added bonus is that most of our local road courses in Texas where modeled for rFactor so we could also use rFactor for track prep and getting back into the groove of specific tracks.

I had hoped Assetto Corsa could be used in the same way, the bonus was going to be the added eye candy - but after discovering that so many "design decisions" where made that actually remove many of the simulation value and really turn AC into "great game".

Now granted, from consumer sales perspective, that is the way to go - as can be seen by the cash flow that AC generates with sales and DLC - the model works well for both buyers and sellers - AC is a cool looking and semi-sim game.

But it is not that great as a car development tool - I wish it was but it is not.

You know you can create different car steps (there are several examples in the game already), where you keep the whole car but just make another folder with different files for suspension, tyres, wings, and can even have different visuals.
But I still don't understand where the game is lacking simulation value, the times you posted bits of how you want to make the car, other physics modders said you were doing it wrongly, with the wrong method.
So unless you can show what is wrong with the game physics, like other physics modder have done in the past, and then the devs can correct it, all your statements about the game have no value really. Be it for AC, rfactor, iracing, etc. the way you're saying something is wrong in the game wouldn't help any dev from any sim to identify that.
Is unwise to refuse any help on how to mod for AC because they already released several mods for AC and you none, therefore your experience is too low to say they are wrong and you're not, unless you can clearly show where the game, the devs, and all the other physics modders are mistaken. So far you haven't managed to do that, only talk on many pages, make a reader submission on that blog, but 0 (zero) issue report to the devs or other physics modders. One thing is to have all the data in the world and another is to correctly put it in the software. Before you say the game is bad and has no simulation make sure you're actually introducing all the data correctly for your own car, with your own data, without taking tyres and so on from other cars in the game.

 

[RC45]

You know you can create different car steps (there are several examples in the game already), where you keep the whole car but just make another folder with different files for suspension, tyres, wings, and can even have different visuals.
But I still don't understand where the game is lacking simulation value, the times you posted bits of how you want to make the car, other physics modders said you were doing it wrongly, with the wrong method.
So unless you can show what is wrong with the game physics, like other physics modder have done in the past, and then the devs can correct it, all your statements about the game have no value really. Be it for AC, rfactor, iracing, etc. the way you're saying something is wrong in the game wouldn't help any dev from any sim to identify that.
Is unwise to refuse any help on how to mod for AC because they already released several mods for AC and you none, therefore your experience is too low to say they are wrong and you're not, unless you can clearly show where the game, the devs, and all the other physics modders are mistaken. So far you haven't managed to do that, only talk on many pages, make a reader submission on that blog, but 0 (zero) issue report to the devs or other physics modders. One thing is to have all the data in the world and another is to correctly put it in the software. Before you say the game is bad and has no simulation make sure you're actually introducing all the data correctly for your own car, with your own data, without taking tyres and so on from other cars in the game.

1.) Have you ever used a PC Sim (such as rFactor) to assist in the build/development of a car in real life?

2.) and then have you tried to port over to a new platform such as Assetto Corsa?

I have done the first, and am working on the second. How about you?

 

[Radu Oros]

1.) Have you ever used a PC Sim (such as rFactor) to assist in the build/development of a car in real life?

2.) and then have you tried to port over to a new platform such as Assetto Corsa?

I have done the first, and am working on the second. How about you?

Maybe you need to take a new approach to build the car in AC without trying to port what you did in rfactor. Build all the physics files from scratch, treat it like you never made a car for rfactor before. If you treat it as a new project and not a port then you'll be more open about everything and with better patience. If you treat it as a port then you just want to rush and complain why it doesn't fit when in the other game fitted. AC modding is a new project for you, not a port, because both games aren't built the same way. In the end compare the results, but along the way ask for physics cooperation with other modders until you're able to release it, since is your first in a new software.

 

[Borbor]

^

most sensible thing written out of 185 posts in this thread.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I should get my voting rights back (I can't even agree or like something anymore)

Really, fabulous how well that mod works then. We should apply that to more trolling people then. Thanks for confirming how awesome our software is.

 

[Associat0r]

Isn't car upgrade system exactly a thing that is found in more "arcadey" games but not in any modern sim?

rFactor 2 is a majorly modern sim with an upgrade system used by most cars and is majorly far from arcade.

 

[J-Lius]

rFactor 2 is a majorly modern sim with an upgrade system used by most cars and is majorly far from arcade.

Ah okay then I'm sorry, I somehow thought it was only in rFactor 1.
It is indeed nice feature if done properly.

 

[natedogg1867]

10 pages of 1 guys rant where he has trouble modding and says the game is broken for it...

Keep on goin' man.

*Insert Michael Jackson popcorn .gif here*

rFactor 2 is a majorly modern sim with an upgrade system used by most cars and is majorly far from arcade.

You sure have turned into quite a parody of yourself m80.

Also, using your own past posts to somehow prove rF2 isnt arcade... by talking about AC instead... is sure a round about way of doing that...

 

[RC45]

10 pages of 1 guys rant where he has trouble modding and says the game is broken for it...

Keep on goin' man.

*Insert Michael Jackson popcorn .gif here*

Please do not fabricate outright lies and try pass them off as fact.

I have had NO problem modding with AC - I simply followed the advice of all the resident "experts" and fudged the numbers till the cars felt right.

So my MOD is no different to any other AC mod. After all - every AC mod uses some amount of fudged tire and chassis data to "get the feel right". They have to - AC requires it.

It is just very apparent that me pointing this out, is what upset the locals.

 

[David Dominguez]

Please do not fabricate outright lies and try pass them off as fact.

I have had NO problem modding with AC - I simply followed the advice of all the resident "experts" and fudged the numbers till the cars felt right.

So my MOD is no different to any other AC mod. After all - every AC mod uses some amount of fudged tire and chassis data to "get the feel right". They have to - AC requires it.

It is just very apparent that me pointing this out, is what upset the locals.

Now I got the curiosity... how did you make the tyre physics for your rF/rF2 mod?

 

[RC45]

Now I got the curiosity... how did you make the tyre physics for your rF/rF2 mod?

Before I disclosed my source publicly, I would need to confirm that this currently professionally employed and well known game physics developer and expert would not mind me sharing that he very graciously provided some early assistance and tools to accomplish this task. But then again I honestly don't even want to go down that path.

Why not just accept that I have fudged the AC tire numbers as you suggested 46 pages back, and now the AC cars 'feels' almost as good as the rFactor cars.

 

[David Dominguez]

But then again I honestly don't even want to go down that path.

Of course

PS: Your physics guru would also agree if I say that he also had to make estimations/assumtions in some areas. You know, what you call "fudging".

 

[Radu Oros]

Why not just accept that I have fudged the AC tire numbers as you suggested 46 pages back, and now the AC cars 'feels' almost as good as the rFactor cars.

But why don't you put the real data instead of making up something else? Or perhaps your real data is incomplete and need to make educated estimations? If you really have all the data necessary and no need to make anything up, then just write in the game files, and do the same for all the other components of the car.

 

[Tibor Solyom]

10 pages for nothing? OMG!
Guys, you have so much time to lose?

 

[ALB123]

Before I disclosed my source publicly, I would need to confirm that this currently professionally employed and well known game physics developer and expert would not mind me sharing that he very graciously provided some early assistance and tools to accomplish this task. But then again I honestly don't even want to go down that path.

Why not just accept that I have fudged the AC tire numbers as you suggested 46 pages back, and now the AC cars 'feels' almost as good as the rFactor cars.

Bwwwahahahaha!!!! That is awesome. You...You're a trip. Thank you for the laugh. I hope you have a pleasant day. Good luck with your mod. Corvettes rock! My parents had one when I was in high school. Loved when they handed me the keys.

 

[Andreas Knöpke]

Now this gets interesting, consider me signed up to this thread

 

[RC45]

Of course

PS: Your physics guru would also agree if I say that he also had to make estimations/assumtions in some areas. You know, what you call "fudging".

Sure he would, I have never suggested there are not guesstimates - but I don't believe the guess work in the rFactor tire data was to compensate for chassis behaviour issues. If it was then so be it.
And even if it was, I actually had little problem sharing tire data between C5 & C6 chassis setups. The tires where not reinvented for each and every car. Maybe the similarities in the chassis allowed for this.

Bwwwahahahaha!!!! That is awesome. You...You're a trip. Thank you for the laugh. I hope you have a pleasant day. Good luck with your mod. Corvettes rock! My parents had one when I was in high school. Loved when they handed me the keys.

It's not hard to figure out who he is - its 2009/2010 and my mod was C5 Corvette based, the definitive C6 rFactor mod had been released so I approached the guy that did the C6 physics really well and he graciously shared some of his tools. At that time my C5 and C6 cars never got out of private use. Ever.

I am really not sure what the controversy is. I have been very careful to not quote, reference or involve this person in any of AC dev cycle - out of professional respect for the guy. How about we keep him out of this AC thread - yeah?

Now this gets interesting, consider me signed up to this thread

Subscribe away

 

[RC45]

BTW, is there any meaningful way to log the suspension behavior of the chassis in AC?

Does the AC Telemetry Interface app actually work?

I would like to compare the in game chassis behavior to chassis behavior that a suspension analysis program using the same vehicle lap telemetry and the real car suspension data shows.

You guys want to expose the inner workings of AC? Ok - lets do it.

I have the software, I just need the suspension movement output to compare to real behavior.