The Elephant in the room

[Cote Dazur]

I want to share a concern that I have about AMS2. It does not seem to be discussed, but when comparing how many player actually play the game, I am very worried this game will get any traction ever. It is no just less than other SIM, it is very very little, particularly as it is new.

I would love to hear what Reiza think of the abysmally small amount of user.

How many use a game does not reflect on how good it is, AMS2 is good, but not having user, hence no money coming in has to be some how worry some for Reiza and by consequence to existing user.

By all the coverage here in RD and all the superlative in this thread, you could be tempted to think that this is the next big thing for SIM racer. Not so much, why is their not more players?

 

[Kryztov]

First of all, I play several sims and like most of them, so no fanboy (the fact that I even have to state that is kinda stupid with all the people kinda hating this sim).

On topic:
I think one of the main reasons why other sims have higher player counts is for a very big part due to being featured on simracing.gp and such and AMS 2 is not. Just my 2 cents.

 

[steelreserv]

I'm onboard with AMS2 1000% not because its perfect in every way, but because of its unrealized potential. With the proper custom FFB, the right setup and learning some different driving techniques & some practice, it comes alive.

The cars are dynamic, they all feel different. Many of the them teach you a skill or have an exaugurated feel to them so that with some time and practice, you can be more in tune with that feel and recognize it in other cars. You feel the rubber all the way up through the suspension. And the cars evolve!! as the races progress. Lighter fuel loads, tires with wear or overheating, overheating brakes (or too cool).

There's tire management and knowing how to recognize trouble with overheating tires and changing your driving style (or setup for a later race) goes a long way. The setup work isn't pointless or marginal, or just for flashy hot laps. Much of my setup work is designed around tire wear and temp balance for longevity and consistency. Real changes can be made (some absolutely required) which speaks loads about the physics. Real life setup principles are what I use and the telemetry reflects it.

The track dynamics are fantastic. There's a rubbered line and as a race progresses, the track evolves, knowing this can and should dictate how you approach corners. Not to mention the weather, wet and dry lines, puddles that build and dissipate.

All of the concerns listed on threads like this are being actively addressed. Reiza releases monster updates every month and problems or suggestions can be posted on the forum one day, and addressed in the very next update. Its a small team yes, but they aren't devoted to corporate financial overlords. Renato actually schedules MP races for beta testers and listens to them too.

Sure the are certain car parameters that need to be tweaked or reworked. Universal or on a per car basis. There are some issues with the lsds and some of the soft tires have perhaps too much grip until they fall off. And many many other items. I understand that can be frustrating to people who are used to things being a certain way. but there is too much great stuff going on to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

And please, just stop using he word "sim-cade' with regards to AMS2. It holds not truth whatsoever. "Sim-cades" program cars specifically for end user experience, there doesn't need to be any physics behind it whatsoever, just a simple setup page that influense that end experience. ASM2 develops each cars' driving experience through a pretty intensive and universal physical parameter system and the cars feel the way they do through that. Hell or high water. If there is a problem with a parameter, there may be a problem with how the car feels. That makes a HUGE difference.

 

[reshaderacer]

Unfortunately, whilst I appreciate what steereserve just said above, I used to be of a mind to say much the same too - but at this point it shows a great deal of insecurity to cling to AMS2 so much. No offence - not the feeling of insecurity but the notion of it. I mean that its taken so long and its gone forwards and backwards, and such words of positivity are so hollow now. Its ok to not be totally in the corner of the title and remain skeptical. They do work hard, but the game engine - not the people, steel - make the title sim-cade.

Oft in the extreme.

Now, when it comes to this thread topic, look back and note I gave it huge hopes of positivity and the title has done nothing. If I were to continue like that I would merely be pandering and/or being a sycophant, as many others have turned into.

This thread is actually accurate. The man was proven right and I commend him for that, its a remarkable thread - and notedly it has so many pages to it - so its also the best thread about AMS2 round here - and it actually epitomizes AMS2 very well.

Just bold so people see the main topic of this post. I did read most of steel reserves, but I do not agree with its principles. The title has failed on so many levels, not all their own fault. Hey I still have 2 more USA packs to receive so I will be on the look out for those - but the game is not worth playing just now though I hope it changes, its not accurate, its not worthy, not when AC and ACC and raceroom exist, forza even.... to play AMS2 to me, just now, no offence, is not worth it. But consider I still own it, I gave them my money but its not up to me now. Its in their court and no amount of sugar coating how rubbish the game evolved will change all this.

That only 200 play it is a testament to all that. This thread was proven right and thats pretty great. I had the same opinion once as steel, so I admitted i was wrong a while back, and if I said all that, I would be wrong. But he enjoys it so be it. I am not to take away from the enjoyment; but to come into the thread to defend the title is in err - its a failed title on many fronts. I play it from time to time, so to say I completely abandoned it is not a thing.

There will never be any multiplayer for this game, there will never be an audience for this game. I guess I will still enjoy it for what it is from time to time, but the reality is the above. They won't be able to improve it, look at race room, they did improve that but it was on a tried and tested engine, AMS2 is lumped with the failed madness engine - and while I actually AGREE with steel in principle when all is said and done - I do not agree technically and in truth; that everything we are presented with is middling at best, and because the madness engine is a failed engine across so many titles or saw very middling success and AMS2 has stagnated itself its the engine, then there will be no come back I would dare say. Thats what I am driving at, not that I think I never play it or something, I do, its just too lame to play over other sims. I guess this would be a lesson for the company, a shame because they do have a solid development ethos about them.


Its just a naff game. Pretty much a bit sim cade, to coin the meaning most people make of that - its all the elephant in the room and now, one year on its also the monkey on its back.

 

[steelreserv]

When an argument relies on half-truths and subjective opinion , fine.

Say it 1000 times and its propaganda to suit an agenda.

 

[BlaKArg]

When an argument relies on half-truths and subjective opinion , fine.

Say it 1000 times and its propaganda to suit an agenda.

That guy's post was, wow. Might have finally driven me off RD forums for good.

 

[Gevatter]

That guy's post was, wow. Might have finally driven me off RD forums for good.

Nah, don't. As I said before, he did turn from liking AMS2 to hating on it the day he was banned from the Reiza forums for spamming and stalking. He's just salty. Just look in this very thread, from page eight or something onward.

 

[reshaderacer]

Oh spare me, and stop trying to make out like I am precious and 'salty'. For all I know you are the fake account of the company's owner or something.

How could I be salty btw? One would only have to look at my post history on racedepartment to see I am not salty about this title, rather that I am realistic. What you perceive as salt is simply realism.

What you need to appreciate about a company-forum like Reiza's or any company's (and why I do not go on them) is that its their forum and unless you are a shill and 100% behind their title or defend it, they simply will ban you. I have ALWAYS appreciated that. Its no skin off my nose. This is a company's prerogative. If any one gets banned from there you can bet its simply one thing - you're not helping them make money. A fool is parted with his money every minute.

Put it this way - if you are spending time on some company's forum and you are not asking for support of some technical nature - trust me, friend, your life is a not one where you are making good choices. Go ask any one, your mum, dad, friends, significant other, you really have nothing better to do but help a company make money when they are not paying you, or to have them 'massage' you while you send them unwarranted money?

Now - a forum like racedepartment is a place where you can speak your mind. Its the best racing forum. I spend no time on company forums. Never have, never will.

What one may also wish to comprehend about that is that I have never towed the company line about the title or any title or product - even when I was generally (not always) more positive about it. However - my positivity wasn't the vague kind SC27 is on about I was guarded in my encouragement.

Thats an interesting phrase is it not? "100% behind this game" for "its unlimited potential..."

This is what steelcast is want to do - to begin an argument it seems. About what? Delusion or statements that can not be substantiated.

No offence, chum! I really think the best of you - but it would be like me saying "the project will be magnificent - one day, you will see! One day!"

If wishes were fishes... see, we don't know that, for the future - only the past, and its been downhill. The only reason they encourage that kind of thing even in their dev blogs, is because they hope to massage money out of you like any business. Since they cannot advertise, their encouragement is very hands on or at the coal face.

If its only because he cannot stomach the fact that the majority of people do not play this game, then fine, its a losing argument because the thread title is 100% apt. I am not trying to start an argument. He likes to play the game, fine. Continue to play it.

No need to say "oh wow" from any one's end. None whatsoever - but there is a large need to substantiate why one thinks the game is this amazing piece of technology that is simply misunderstood or something.

I do not spend any time on the company forums over at Reiza. And I just want to state that not one person has played the ball here, only the man, and its because you literally do not have a good reason why you say the things you do.

There is still an elephant in the room and you guys (on an agnostic forum, and putting aside the fact the owner may be here right now) want to ignore the reasons for that without a shred of evidence.

 

[Kenny Paton]

reshaderacer
Right I think by now we all know your views on the game and your constant walls of text repeating yourself on AMS2 threads is becoming a distraction, so time to take a step back.

 

[reshaderacer]

Thank you Kenny for your input on the matter.

But is it me repeating myself or simply myself stating yet another time what is lacking in the intellectual honesty of others. Its not a point of stepping back, rather, of being misconstrued. I think the other aspect of the entire discussion that bares mentioning - and sure there has not really been a constructive discussion about this title since its inception - is that I am somehow a super-fan of this title who somehow turned against it one day. I am not a super fan of this title, nor did I suddenly turn against it.

I will take you up on your suggestion of stepping back. But I am not a super fan of this title. I play AMS2 rarely, perhaps once per month, and at all other times of mentioning it I mentioned it in light of raceroom and Assetto Corsa. That is the literal quality of the title, to be an also-ran, and not able to be mentioned on merits of its own.

I put it to you that this is why dissenting voices against my view are SO important for the dissenters - because it literally [semingly] sucks the air out of the game for them.

The sooner people realise that in light of my comments, the sooner they will not require walls of text - themselves only owing to the vast amounts of nonsense said against myself the moment I maintain objectivity.

In fact - the sooner they will be at peace with themselves, the sooner you will not have to remind people to step back. I am constantly neutral. It would be good to remember this, even as we allow multiple opinions, objectivities, etc including mine.

There are basically about 3-5 topics or discussion on this game in the entire world - I am not trying to ruin 33% of them. They are what they are because of the inherent and innate merits and qualities of the title. Thats on the game, not me. Good day.

 

[Gevatter]

What you need to appreciate about a company-forum like Reiza's or any company's (and why I do not go on them) is that its their forum and unless you are a shill and 100% behind their title or defend it, they simply will ban you.

@Kenny Paton I'd like to despell that myth, then I'll shut up about this as well, promise.

Never have I ever seen anybody get banned for ciritcism in any of the simracing forums I visit. I did however see people getting banned for being blatantly disrespectful, for derailing or spamming threads all the time, for droning on about their issues in any thread possible and for constantly harrassing and flaming other members.

There currently is a lot of criticism and complaining about the latest update going on in the Reiza forums, from listing bugs to discussing the new content to simply complaining about the new car being unrealistic or bad to drive. Much more negative posts than positive. But nobody gets banned. I think you're the first one ever to get banned by Reiza, and I'm not saying that to poke fun. Even on the Kunos forums there have only been a handful of bans in my time, and they are much much stricter there.

What I do appreciate however is that anytime somebody gets banned from one of those company forums, without fail they cast themselves as martyrs that were banished out to the wastelands for stating an uncomfortable truth to the devs. If that was true half of every forum would get banned every time there is an update to a game.

But I am not a super fan of this title. I play AMS2 rarely, perhaps once per month, and at all other times of mentioning it I mentioned it in light of raceroom and Assetto Corsa.

And that's a completely normal thing. Everybody has their favs and their dislikes. But you don't hold the truth to the matter, you only hold you personal opinion, and it's the same every time you post. We know by now.

Let people like AMS2 if they like it, it won't hurt you if they do. You don't see me in the ACC forums trying to show people the light by incessantly complaining that GT3 cars are boring, do you?

This is the exact behaviour that got you banned in the Reiza forums. Endless rambling walls of text.

 

[Jebus]

^
Spot on.

 

[reshaderacer]

@Kenny Paton I'd like to despell that myth, then I'll shut up about this as well, promise.

Never have I ever seen anybody get banned for ciritcism in any of the simracing forums I visit. I did however see people getting banned for being blatantly disrespectful, for derailing or spamming threads all the time, for droning on about their issues in any thread possible and for constantly harrassing and flaming other members.

There currently is a lot of criticism and complaining about the latest update going on in the Reiza forums, from listing bugs to discussing the new content to simply complaining about the new car being unrealistic or bad to drive. Much more negative posts than positive. But nobody gets banned. I think you're the first one ever to get banned by Reiza, and I'm not saying that to poke fun. Even on the Kunos forums there have only been a handful of bans in my time, and they are much much stricter there.

What I do appreciate however is that anytime somebody gets banned from one of those company forums, without fail they cast themselves as martyrs that were banished out to the wastelands for stating an uncomfortable truth to the devs. If that was true half of every forum would get banned every time there is an update to a game.


And that's a completely normal thing. Everybody has their favs and their dislikes. But you don't hold the truth to the matter, you only hold you personal opinion, and it's the same every time you post. We know by now.

Let people like AMS2 if they like it, it won't hurt you if they do. You don't see me in the ACC forums trying to show people the light by incessantly complaining that GT3 cars are boring, do you?

This is the exact behaviour that got you banned in the Reiza forums. Endless rambling walls of text.

Funny stuff. At the crux of your case about what I type - is me. Talk about the world's biggest strawman argument.

At the crux of my matter instead is the game and the topic of the thread. I do not care what you know, who you know, its all designed to obfuscate the real issues I am talking about, not this fanciful drama of people being banned. You seem to spend a lot of time on their forums, so I can essentially disregard a lot of what you say due to bias, and a lack of credibility, as your comments about the title are shaped by the first-hand input from the developers who seek to placate people. No, no I am not there reading, I would have to do a google search to even find it - I stated that any one who goes to company sites is firmly attempting to ingratiate themselves toward the developer. Sometimes that is positive, other times, like now I suspect that is really toxic.

So I do not think you really have any business going off track about myself. It shows a degree of non-confidence about what you are saying. Perhaps about anything. Also it does not surprise me there is a lot of criticism and negativity surrounding the latest patch. If people cared to see, they would see that usually but not always what I say is held up to become true in some way or is true.

Here, again, we see it. At least bring it back to topic - has the elephant in the room been seen by you recently? At all?

- haha jebus - but look if I mention this its because its areas I think the game could improve only. Take a video I watched with simracer604 and one of the comments was go play Knupstorp in Assetto Corsa - and that track I know is in raceroom. The rush and the acceleration onto the bend in that track is something AMS2 is struggling to do 2 years later.

I can see why the multiplayer is not going to be a thing with that kind of quality lacking. AMS2 has got nothing on that

 

[Squale972]

Everyone,
I just want to present my apologies for what I wrote about AMS2.
I was totally wrong because my wheels and pedals weren't correctly configured. So throttle and brake were just on or off so no progressive values.
And because of that my experience was horrible: it resulted in very strange cars behaviours. It's very strange because i really took time to configure everything the first timer i installed it. I fear that a lot of drivers have the same trouble and just gave up.
Now, just after assigning wheels, pedals and throttle and recalibrating them, i really enjoy everything in this game: awesome graphics, FFB very close de rFactor 2, dynamic weather... Very vivid sensantions.
I really hope more people will join for good leagues and maybe a competitive system in the future.

 

[steelreserv]

Everyone,
I just want to present my apologies for what I wrote about AMS2.
I was totally wrong because my wheels and pedals weren't correctly configured. So throttle and brake were just on or off so no progressive values.
And because of that my experience was horrible: it resulted in very strange cars behaviours. It's very strange because i really took time to configure everything the first timer i installed it. I fear that a lot of drivers have the same trouble and just gave up.
Now, just after assigning wheels, pedals and throttle and recalibrating them, i really enjoy everything in this game: awesome graphics, FFB very close de rFactor 2, dynamic weather... Very vivid sensantions.
I really hope more people will join for good leagues and maybe a competitive system in the future.

This happens way more than people realize. What you wrote takes guts. Good on you brother. Im glad you got it sorted and see it with fresh eyes.
It was the same for me until I found custom FFB and started getting the setups figured out.. That “whoa” moment came shortly thereafter. No looking back after that.

 

[Cote Dazur]

nvm

 

[Kurupt CDN]

In fairness....all the racing sims have dropped in numbers the past 2 months.
Which usually happens during summer.
With AMS2 it still has higher player counts than AMS ever had.....so I'm not to concerned

 

[chrisbrown]

Is this elephant getting bigger still?

Month	Avg. Players	Gain	% Gain	Peak Players
Last 30 Days	177.8	-40.6	-18.58%	519

If this was a limbo contest, AMS2 would be doing really good.

Reiza might want to release the next DLC fairly quickly, or it might be too late, as no one will be playing anymore.

I know, I know, it does not matter how little the player base is. It is all about the quality. yes, sure!

Clearly the game was a flop, but it seems that you enjoy it??? what is the purpose of these posts?

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Clearly the game was a flop, but it seems that you enjoy it??? what is the purpose of these posts?

Check the thread title and OP.

 

[Gevatter]

Is this elephant getting bigger still?

The monthly wank over AMS2's player numbers?

 

[Cote Dazur]

nvm