Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

i spent quite some time with the beta over the last few days. I really like it. The separation / distinctive differences between road bumps and surface is nice. However I could use more amplitude for bumps. I also feel like using a lower frequency range for bumps would better define them for my shakers

Here are the settings I ended up with. Again looking to focus on car feedback / tires here, so have disabled quite a few functions for now.
 

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i spent quite some time with the beta over the last few days. I really like it. The separation / distinctive differences between road bumps and surface is nice. However I could use more amplitude for bumps. I also feel like using a lower frequency range for bumps would better define them for my shakers

Here are the settings I ended up with. Again looking to focus on car feedback / tires here, so have disabled quite a few functions for now.

Thats good to hear, both these things you desire will be covered.
With the coming files you would just select a set with a "higher volume" and then within that a set using "lower frequencies".

The great thing, with this, is you could have several "Car Folders" with different combinations and then easily select/determine for each effect which is your favourites. You then would place in another "Car Folder" a combination of all your individual faves for each effect and use that as a profile. Simple and effective.

Its then up to users if they want to have specific "Profiles" for individual cars and create their preferred profiles. I think this is a better solution than me do what I previously considered in building and sharing my own profiles. This just doesn't work on all the different levels of hardware.

The set of effects that will be released will improve quite a bit on these that you guys have. Its just stages of testing I went through. Glad that you are enjoying these so far....
 
Maximising Immersion
Tactile Body Zones - Full Body Immersion


Quick update on my own going-ons :)

Some items I had ordered towards my own build arrived, although still using the same frame/support for the seat. I spent last week testing these with some creative installation ideas. The result of this is that I believe, I now have the basis for a unique seat solution that extends my tactile into my forearms and elbow region.

Importantly this does not hamper movement for steering or joypad usage. Not going to divulge yet how/what was used but the solution also perfectly matches my leather seat, right down to the red stitching. This was part luck in finding them on ebay with their size and shape also being ideal. At a later time with the new build these can be shown. However the same solution is going to be used on other body regions and be one of the things that makes my own tactile installation very different to the typically done thing.

I was, rather surprised by how much this addition added to the felt immersion. Seems the forearms are very sensitive. It really helps boost the detection of some effects but will play its part in what I seek to achieve.

So this week turned out to have one of those moments when something surprisingly came toghether, much better than expected too.

If all goes to plan, (many parts are here) with several of the below being individually tested/experimented on. My rig with custom build/design will potentially use 7x sets of stereo tactile points over the body. Not just rely on the usual pedals/seat base contact points:

  • Toes / Pedal Stems
  • Heel / Pedal Base
  • Ankle Joint / Calves
  • Knee Joint *
  • Thighs / Buttocks *
  • Forearms / Elbows *
  • Spine / Lower Back *
* Rear Channels

Also got a nice deal on a Behringer Ultralink Pro which can be used to compare to the Art Split MIx 4 for the control and mixing of (Stereo audio-tactile) with the telemetry (SSW) based tactile and then on the desired channels. As covered in the past, this will be another area I take things beyond the norm and extract from it much more than is typically possible/available from standard audio.

 
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So not that I visit many other Sim forums now but did come across left888 once again spouting false things and slander recently on another forum. This has happened in the past so was not a shock but I do not converse with the guy or give him reasons for his slanderous actions.

It seems this guy cant get past issues he seemingly still has from debates and arguments on gtplanet going back possibly 8 or upto 10 years ago.

Lets clear up some facts regards this recent post he made that I need to defend. I seek no argument or conversation with him. Viewers can form their own opinions of the matter, that's upto you.

Firstly I never got banned from i-racing forums several years ago that he keeps telling people.
If someone wants to pay the monthly fee for the forums as I don't use it as a Sim I can certainly prove my account was never banned. I last took a one month trial in 2016.



Regards my Simvibe it is working fine (I forgot my login at one point is all) @asteroulis. To correct what was said, it is true I emailed SimX several times requesting help regards login and for a new password. Yet they never once responded. It was by luck/chance that I one day remembered my login details and it worked. Make of this regards their customer service or attitude as you want. Yet I still help many people regards Simvibe on the forums or via PM even if it is no longer my own preferred software. I realise people will use what they prefer, some use more than one option.

Yet I don't use SV much since spending so much time with SSW. I clearly voice why I prefer SSW often enough and I keep making my own progress with effects I make myself.

Yes my access to Berneys (private forums) was removed but clearly he had issues with my usage of monitoring Simvibe. At one pint claiming I was a threat to hacking his code (such nonsense). Also some may remember "foamgate" regards the Mini lfeSE. So I was clearly not one of his faves and in some cases, things he posted did not align with my own tactile experiences or findings.

So we had some very clear differences in opinion and goals or objectives regards tactile, I seek to get the most out of tactile, experiment with it and take it beyond the norm. SimXperience are not interested in that or complicating things any further with other members on their own little forums and seek to make money on what they do and offer.

If someone wants to challenge the validity of the images above/below or thinks I am being dishonest here. I can link a video proving it's my PC, my Simvibe original account and emails from iracing.

I am not interested in what left888 has to say. He is entitled to his own opinions of me but I will not stand for him speaking lies that others may read and think are true. It is only of today I noticed the below post while it was made in March.




Rodders
 
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I will say, I am glad I decided against a Stage IV when I was considering an upgrade / side grade to my V3 motion platform. I've followed some of these forums while looking for info and can see why there is a bit of a sore spot from either party. Make of that what you will. I use Simvibe and it's worked well for me over the time I've had it but not without SIGNIFICANT investment of time and testing (and help from fellow forum members). Most users would not have gone to the extent I did to extract what I was seeking from it. Yet to use SSW to a great extent yet but will be doing so once I am up and running.
 
@AntoN_CheZ

Ref SSW effects and EQ stuff you were enquiring about.

Okay so what seems to work well with effects creation is the usage and understanding of harmonics. We can also apply tones within a mix to use octaves or 1/3 octaves (typically found on EQ). I find this makes effects blend better or be more natural with how they combine or interact. The community will be the judge based on the effects themselves. If left 888 is right then I know nothing and spew BS all the time.

Please note, with this idea I am implementing in my own effects. They will be available in combinations offering various amplitude and also now bringing 5% steps (no longer 10%) in variation up/down with the frequencies (Hz) used for each effect.

In laymans terms what this means is that you should be able to find a combination for an effect that does not casue an issue with piston pang or certainly helps limiting it . We now know better what causes this and also understand it can be controlled. Mr Villers SE editions are nothing more than a sales pitch and I still to this day will not say such represents anything like a re-designed product in the manner he advertised or promoted it. He never showed any techincal data that proved it helps performance and common sense would determine that acoustic foam with a piston hitting it constantly will eventually break up and disintegrate. This is exactly what happens with that solution to quieten the piston pang. Yet here on RD forums it was shown how to eliminate or better control it via PEQ control.

Simvibe always had a PEQ tab for Parametric EQ but it was never implemented. I guess now after many years of release it wont be coming neither.


For SSW effects If indeed we find an effect does trigger it when combined with other effects (as the dB increases when we add more effects or layers) we can look at changing or altering the .wav for a new one.

IIRC, not a single Mini LFE owner has come forward to help with testing of the effects I have been creating. However, at this stage I don't think you need to get too involved with EQ.

As for PEACE, I think there is something it asks when installing about devices.
Uninstall, then Reinstall and enable it to use all devices. Then when you select your Realtek card it should work. I would, however, recommend you get the Asus DGX as that is what Andre himself uses and many of use are using as the SSW card.

Very few software EQ offer PEQ ability but Peace seems to be one of the better ones.
Such isn't recommended to people unless they grasp and understand what they are doing as a person could easily make their SSW feel worse rather than better and also damage their hardware. This is why Berney Villers stated on his own forums he did not recommend people use such or iNuke DSP that I personally recommended. Its not that it cannot benefit the tuning or performance of persons tactile on their own rig (resonance control etc) but more I think he couldn't be arsed with all the hassle or bother it would cause.

I still have 3 Behringer FBQ 3102 laying around gathering dust but those were one of the best hardware EQ options to buy. 1/3 octaves over 31 EQ bands.

See Here about octaves etc.

As shared at times in this thread, over the past years, I have experimented with standard EQ, with Sub Harmonic Processors, with iNuke DSP and looked into most options, yet I still know nothing (lol). :p

Looking at all the firggin hardware you have been buying recently I should just tell you to bite the bullet and buy an iNuke DSP 1000. Once the unit is configured to control your tactile, you dont really need to keep altering it and that amp will easily run the bigger Buttkickers with sufficient energy too if you ever upgrade.

By all means get 6 channel mode set up on SSW and have your 4 BK Mini ready
I can send you some recent files for your feedback no probs.
 
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So I uncovered something interesting... at least interesting to me. :unsure:

I was running a two shaker setup with an LFE under my seat and an ADX mounted directly under my heel on a 3/4" ply board I use as a heel plate (I run my pedals inverted mounted in my 8020 rig). These were driven by a 3000DSP and using SSW. I was getting terrific feedback and really liked the ADX (I thought it performed better than the AuraSounds I used to have). So, I decided to buy a second ADX and pair it up with the other to run left/right effects. Since I now am driving 3 shakers I needed a second amp. I had a spare Dayton Audion APA150 which had plenty of juice to power the two ADXs. Hooked everything up and was underwhelmed by the response I was getting. Didn't make sense to me. I tried mounting the two shakers in various positions with little to no improvement. Well - I thought - the only difference is what I'm driving them with. So I hooked the two up to my 3000DSP and what a difference! The terrific tactile feedback was back! I was really surprised how much the amp made a difference. NOTE: I reduced the peak wattage via the DSP to 50 and set the crossover to around 120Hz. I had set the crossover on the APA150 to about 110Hz.

I know on a number of budget minded implementation of tactile, SMSL amps - or similarly priced ones - are used. To upgrade, folks might want to look to the amp vs the shaker.

Oh... to turn the page on this discovery chapter, I found a nicely priced 1000DSP on eBay. Hope to have it in time for the weekend! :cool:
 
Interesting to hear that....

I think the Dayton APA 150 is one of the fave amps with many i-racing forum members and rather a popular choice in the USA. What settings had you with the AP150 and its low pass filter though?

I recommend to turn it off if doing another comparison again if you hadn't already.
As we are using a source (SSW / Simvibe) mainly with only low Hz active. That feature on the amp is only really useful with full range audio and primarily for a subwoofer control.

The Behringer DSP amps are created in mind to be able to power large bass woofers and is one reason they perform well with tactile.
 
I hadn't used the APA150 until I got the 2nd ADX. Up till then, my two units were fed from my 3000DSP.

The low-pass filter on the APA is simply a dial on the back of the unit. I had it set for around 110 Hz and the volume at 12:00. I realize I wasn't clear on what I didn't like with the ADX units plugged into the APA. The amp drove them with plenty of energy. What I didn't favor was the lack of rumble to them. It was all sharp transitional responses. In musical terms, it was like a pair of headphones that have emphasized sharp treble response, light on the mids and poor bass response.

With the ADX plugged into the DSP, I feel more rumble akin to the LFE which is what I liked about it to begin with and set me on the path to get another.

Perhaps those who are satisfied with the APA favor that sharp response. I, however, do not. Kind of apropos actually. I'm a bit of a headphone geek and prefer a bassier but defined signature. Apparently, that has translated to tactile feedback as well. :cool:
 
Well yeah, the operating characteristics of amps can certainly differ and the iNuke DSP impressed me in 2012. Back then I had Behringers established heavyweight amps in the EP4000 and EP2500 models. I then proceeded in buying 1000,3000,6000 models in the iNuke range and didnt look back.

Nice to see you move onto a 2nd amp so whats the new ideas for future configuration?
 
Once I've got things settled with the 1000DSP and the two ADXs, I plan on splitting my heel deck to isolate l/r. Much easier for me than Rob or Michal since I'm just dealing with wood. In my limited time with my 3000 feeding the ADXs, as you've theorized, I'm getting a lot of crosstalk between the two. Now, again, my situation seems to be unique since I am using a wooden heel deck. I've found the best response is having the units directly under my heels. Obviously, that means they are mounted relatively close together. Therefore, it really speaks to splitting the heel deck in two and isolating them separately. I'll do that in a week or so. I want to get familiar with how they feel before splitting so I can detail here on the feedback differences.
 
General advice needed please chaps. I know pretty much naff-all about tactile transducers.
I've got a single BK Gamer 2 left over from my pre-PC days, and it's still connected to my sub feed as it was when I used a PS4. The main audio from the PC is fed to my 5.1 amp via HMDI and out via external speakers (with Crew Chief piped separately to my Rift headphones for optimum clarity and immersion).
What's the subjectively 'best' way to:
a. wire the BK up to my PC, and will I need another sound card and/or expensive software? I'm guessing not as I'm using HDMI for main audio, so the sound card is 'unused'..?
b. physically connect the BK to my rig (sim lab P1 with NLV3 motion platform). I tried the proprietary NLV3 BK mount but this seemed to just send vibrations through all the moving parts of the NLV3's internals and create a lot of metallic rattles, and I tried connecting it directly to my P1 frame but it's aluminium and solid so just 'buzzed', if that makes sense.

Pics for reference:

Overall setup:
kQtxNBu.jpg


BK connected directly to the P1 chassis:
W0rzUBf.jpg


BK originally connected to the 'proper' mount (zoom needed):
w8fTPHj.jpg


I've never been totally happy with the variable performance of the BK, it needs a lot of 'volume' adjustment between different cars to stop earthquakes. I've been thinking of trying a JetSeat to supplement the motion from the NLV3 instead.

Halp! Ta! :)
 
@Mascot I'm no expert, but here are my thoughts:

You can either use the audio signal or the telemetry signal from the sim to feed the BK. To use telemetry you will need additional software which is generally better and gives more control than audio. But I think that the NLVA3 software includes telemetry fed tactile, so you should already have the software you need.

If you choose to go with audio tactile, then if your amp to which you are sending the main audio has enough outputs you should be able to send a speaker wire from it to the BK. How well this works will depend on the spec of your amp. I'm not sure if there are any limitations in using HDMI for audio.

If you choose telemetry tactile and the NLVA3 tactile software, then you can use your spare soundcard, but you will need an amp to power the BK.

As to placement, you will need to experiment, as you have been doing. It does not surprise me that you are only geting a small buzz when attached to the 160/40 profile. Can you bypass the NLVA3 and attached the BK directly to the seat?

Alternatively, have you thought about attaching the BK to the pedals instead? If you are already getting movement etc in the seat from the NLVA3, getting some tactile in the feet might add to the overall sensations you are getting from your rig. The sensation of engine vibes and bumps in the pedals would be nice.

But you will need to be realistic about what a Buttkicker Gamer will bring to such a substantial, high level rig.

P.S. Very neat rig by the way. Do you have a sticker fetish?
 
@Mascot I'm no expert, but here are my thoughts:

You can either use the audio signal or the telemetry signal from the sim to feed the BK. To use telemetry you will need additional software which is generally better and gives more control than audio. But I think that the NLVA3 software includes telemetry fed tactile, so you should already have the software you need.

If you choose to go with audio tactile, then if your amp to which you are sending the main audio has enough outputs you should be able to send a speaker wire from it to the BK. How well this works will depend on the spec of your amp. I'm not sure if there are any limitations in using HDMI for audio.

If you choose telemetry tactile and the NLVA3 tactile software, then you can use your spare soundcard, but you will need an amp to power the BK.

As to placement, you will need to experiment, as you have been doing. It does not surprise me that you are only geting a small buzz when attached to the 160/40 profile. Can you bypass the NLVA3 and attached the BK directly to the seat?

Alternatively, have you thought about attaching the BK to the pedals instead? If you are already getting movement etc in the seat from the NLVA3, getting some tactile in the feet might add to the overall sensations you are getting from your rig. The sensation of engine vibes and bumps in the pedals would be nice.

But you will need to be realistic about what a Buttkicker Gamer will bring to such a substantial, high level rig.

P.S. Very neat rig by the way. Do you have a sticker fetish?
Thanks, @Ceolmor - that's very useful.
I have thought about moving the BK to the pedal end, so will probably try that this week if I can find the time and a suitable mounting method. I'm guessing fixed to the underside of the pedal 'deck' profiles would work?
And of course I have a sticker fetish - doesn't everybody? :p
 
I've been noticing recently and it getting worse a difference between my seats L/R BK LFE units output/strength. The right unit is showcasing the symptoms of additional noise as well.

From research, it appears
Multipurpose "White Lithium Grease" is in order to re-lubricate the units and bring back the normal operational performance.

The large LFE/Concert models seem to have holes I assume are for lubricating the piston without dismantling.

Going to get some of this and give it ago, if needed can dismantle the unit.
Anyone else tried this product as it seems suitable?
 
I haven't used WD-40's brand but I have used white lithium grease and in my very limited experience, it works quite nicely. The tension spring on my throttle pedal began to squeak. I used lithium grease on it as well as in around the moving parts on both throttle and brake and so far so good and that was over 6 months ago.
 

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