Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Wmacky]

Finally got to test my butt kickers today, and was kinda disappointed. They seem weak. The LFE is bolted directly under the seat, and a Advance under the pedal tray. With everything maxed out I was expecting the LFE to shake the seat to pieces, but only get a medium vibration. Seem pretty week for being hit with 1500 watts each. To be honest the exciters seem about the same strength! That can't be right?

I guess I better add details

Using a NX3000D with mr Latte correction filter settings, and gain near max, Input level controls near max, and simhub setting maxed. NX software meters show just shy of full ouput being generated. everything seems OK except for the week fizzle at the rug.

 

[Mr Latte]

Finally got to test my butt kickers today, and was kinda disappointed. They seem weak. The LFE is bolted directly under the seat, and a Advance under the pedal tray. With everything maxed out I was expecting the LFE to shake the seat to pieces, but only get a medium vibration. Seem pretty week for being hit with 1500 watts each. To be honest the exciters seem about the same strength! That can't be right?

I guess I better add details

Using a NX3000D with mr Latte correction filter settings, and gain near max, Input level controls near max, and simhub setting maxed. NX software meters show just shy of full ouput being generated. everything seems OK except for the week fizzle at the rug.

You would be better showing the crossover screen and eq you have applied from the amps DSP.
The amps dials at 1-2pm position and the soundcard at 50-60% and then apply the slider volume for each effect as needed.

The low bass energy within 14-19Hz in particular should be shaking your eyelids/cheeks/earlobes/brain if having a suitable crossover curve boosting the low Hz.

 

[Wmacky]

I'll post some pics. So far I've only used the "test" button within Simhub, but even with ll the volumes maxed the output is "exciter" like. Should the test button generate a strong effect?

 

[Mr Latte]

I'll post some pics. So far I've only used the "test" button within Simhub, but even with ll the volumes maxed the output is "exciter" like. Should the test button generate a strong effect?

IIRC the test button is @ 40Hz audio signal. Could be wrong but I think Its more to determine if you have a response. You want to properly test effects from within the sim and actual telemetry data running.

 

[Wmacky]

IIRC the test button is @ 40Hz audio signal. Could be wrong but I think Its more to determine if you have a response. You want to properly test effects from within the sim and actual telemetry data running.

OK, Thats my next step. BTW, I just turned down the NX inputs to 2:00 as you said, and had test volume maxed. Vibration was less than 1/2 that of Exicter at 50% exciter amp volume. I'm afraid something is terrible wrong. Using the same test, the exciters are so much stronger

 

[Mr Latte]

OK, Thats my next step. BTW, I just turned down the NX inputs to 2:00 as you said, and had test volume maxed. Vibration was less than 1/2 that of Exicter at 50% exciter amp volume. I'm afraid something is terrible wrong.

You have full control with PEQ to adapt the output of the LFE for specific frequencies.
We need to confirm you do not have a faulty amp or cable issue but as stated you need to show screenshots of the amps settings from config/crossover/eq

 

[Wmacky]

Here's the pic, no other eq changes

 

[Mr Latte]

Ensure in the setup screens you select 4ohm for LFE and that wattage limiter is off
For crossover, you can turn the first part to off and get the 20Hz closer to 10dB

This should also raise the 40Hz which is currently at -5dB (as well as other frequencies

 

[Mr Latte]

Useful also


Here is an example of two very different settings


Both of these really push the 20-40Hz but as you can see the blue setting uses a much steeper slope and the orange adds a lot of dB all the way to having 100Hz still at 0dB

Orange will give more general output, blue will give tighter bass for low Hz.
EQ can then also be applied for additional boost/cut but care is needed.

 

[Wmacky]

So looking at the crossover closer I see the 40 Hz was down fairly low. I changed the curve to bring 40Hz up above 0DB and the LFE is now much stronger, So I guess it's working. Still less than I expected. I feel that adding a few extra exciters may have been enough?

 

[Mr Latte]

So looking at the crossover closer I see the 40 Hz was down fairly low. I changed the curve to bring 40Hz up above 0DB and the LFE is now much stronger, So I guess it's working. Still less than I expected. I feel that adding a few extra exciters may have been enough?

You have not shown other settings to confirm that you have no digital limiter on the output engaged.
Doubtful but needs checked.

Some soundcards can be a bit lower in dB output to better cards. So you can increase if you want the master volume in Simhub to 60% or more but keep an eye on the meter levels on the amp for the input and output signal.

Also stop using the test button to determine how the effects are going to feel.
Get into the sim and test gearchange or other effects and using low Hz

If you are using a different soundcard for the BK to the exciters then you also need to check the settings within Simhub for each soundcard and ensure no Crossover in Simhub is active on the card for the NX300D amp.

 

[Wmacky]

I'll post another pic but didn't change anything on the page other than Ohms set to 4.

I hear you about the test buttons. I was using it just to confirm I was all wired up and outputing as I should, when I noticed the weak response. I just never made it to the sim! I'll be testing your profile over the holiday. I took the whole week off just to play with tactile!

 

[Mr Latte]

I'll post another pic but didn't change anything on the page other than Ohms set to 4.

I hear you about the test buttons. I was using it just to confirm I was all wired up and outputing as I should, when I noticed the weak response. I just never made it to the sim! I'll be testing your profile over the holiday. I took the whole week off just to play with tactile!

In the past with issue/fault finding, some have had a faulty amp or they have had Crossover in Simhub on and then also via the amp. To my understanding, (could be wrong) the test button is not based on telemetry data being generated so its only the same thing as a windows speaker-test .wav type response.

Effects shared were done in AC and ACC but you should have a really meaty deep feel from the BK and yes the exciters are punchy with that 40hz bass.

 

[Mr Latte]

Save your preset on the amp but it will auto load the last one used when powered on

Another example of playing around with different crossovers and using a suitable amp output



If pushing low Hz with aggressive dB gains in amplitude then you may want to cut their signature peak output @20Hz with the large BK and boost higher Hz it struggles with in 60Hz-80Hz. Here above you see a cut for the BK Mini models piston pang issue @35Hz so just adjust to suit your own preferences and if piston pang is a factor.

How you tune the BK to work with the exciters will take some playing around and may be based on personal preference and what effects you send to each unit. Do note that if you have +12dB set in crossover it can make the amps fans kick into overdrive. So find a nice balance with maybe +10dB for low Hz and a suitable amp input gain.

Factors
Soundcard Output Level
Amp Input Trim Level
Amp Output Level & Applied DSP

A balanced setting of all 3 will avoid any distortion piston pang or clipping.

With the above-shown options, it should help you learn/realize the potential with DSP and how it can dramatically alter the output of the transducer. You can also cut amplitude for specific frequencies if they cause noisy reverb in certain materials of your rig. This depends as different materials reverberate at different frequencies.

Im not sure what you are doing with how you control your exciters but curious to read how you get on from here and more initial findings with the BK.

 

[Wmacky]

Thanks I'll read through that and let you know how it goes.

 

[RCHeliguy]

FWIW My BK concert can be abusive under my seat and I've never run it much past 50%.

Something isn't right.

 

[Mr Latte]

FWIW My BK concert can be abusive under my seat and I've never run it much past 50%.

Something isn't right.

He may also be losing some energy based on whatever isolation is being used and it seaping into the main 8020 frame? Though to be fair he has yet to give proper feedback from using effects in a sim.

The main drawback with having no DSP controls espically with this level of transducer is that the volume you use or find is "the users comfort level" It's often based on the peak Hz output that the unit used has.

However, without these additional controls, you cant set a suitable gain level for the unit's signature peak output that it has and then also boost for example the 5-20Hz sub-bass range with say +10dB like being highlighted above.

To give an example 3dB gain in amplitude is determined to be approx 2x the energy, so we are talking here of applying upto 12dB for the 5-20Hz+ range (needed for specific sensations) bringing potentially 8x the energy to specific frequencies we want whilst still maintaining the overall desired/comfort volume for the peak output frequencies the unit used has.

Of course, we can also drop/reduce the amplitude of any peak Hz ranges a make/model of unit outputs in its felt character if we find them too lively or causing annoying reverb.

These certainly can be nice options to have in determining what the felt output is and the user being able to tailor it to their own liking.

Motion vibrations may also cancel some tactile frequencies if it is being used but this is not something people have commented much on from their own experiences that I am aware of.

 

[Wmacky]

I think the biggest issue is I have never had a BK unit, and don't know what expect. I now believe I was just expecting the wrong thing as I have now had to turn down the volume of the LFE due to a clattering sound. Maybe this is piston pang? Yet the BK advance unit is being hit with the same volume and does not make the clattering sound.

 

[RCHeliguy]

It feels like I'm getting excellent results without using a DSP and have no pistoning issues with the Concert. I turned down a lot of the effects after getting something I liked.

 

[turen009]

I think the biggest issue is I have never had a BK unit, and don't know what expect. I now believe I was just expecting the wrong thing as I have now had to turn down the volume of the LFE due to a clattering sound. Maybe this is piston pang? Yet the BK advance unit is being hit with the same volume and does not make the clattering sound.

Perhaps you are not using any isolators between the seat and the rig?