Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[turen009]

Looking at the recommended DSP in this thread for my 8 Dayton exciters with the Douk M4 amps. t.racks is 4-input/4-output DSP and not available from a US seller. How does it compare to a Dayton DSP-408, which is a 4/8?

 

[Tom_Hampton]

You can freely download the software and use demo mode.
It's much the same as many others. Visually is okay, perhaps not my favorite and it may be a bit daunting to a new user not familiar with Crossover controls and filters or PEQ settings. They all pretty much operate in similar ways once you get used to them.

I bought it originally to use with the M4 and for the exciters but have opted to upgrade my audio interface and never used them. My friend got sorted with a refund and I had already gifted him in kind by Pay Pal so he was happy. I still have those items available to maybe now sell.

Thanks. I can deal with clumsy UI.

What I really meant was, did you find the processing of the dsp to be adequate? There's more than one way to implement dsp functions, they each have different impacts on the signal output quality.

 

[Tom_Hampton]

Looking at the recommended DSP in this thread for my 8 Dayton exciters with the Douk M4 amps. t.racks is 4-input/4-output DSP and not available from a US seller. How does it compare to a Dayton DSP-408, which is a 4/8?

The t.Racks can be purchased and shipped from:

the t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini

Compact 4-Channel DSP Inputs: 4x 6.3 mm jack balanced, Outputs: 6.3 mm jack balanced, Programming via USB (Windows), Power supply via external 12 V DC power adapter (centre positive), Weight: 0.6 kg, Dimensions: 160 x 150 x 40 mm, Incl. power...

m.thomannmusic.com

$110 USD delivered to my home.

 

[turen009]

The t.Racks can be purchased and shipped from:

the t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini

Compact 4-Channel DSP Inputs: 4x 6.3 mm jack balanced, Outputs: 6.3 mm jack balanced, Programming via USB (Windows), Power supply via external 12 V DC power adapter (centre positive), Weight: 0.6 kg, Dimensions: 160 x 150 x 40 mm, Incl. power...

m.thomannmusic.com

$110 USD delivered to my home.

But isnt the Dayton a better buy being a 4/8 in one unit?

 

[hvb83]

As it handles the same amount of input channels it doesn't seem to add any real benefits over the t.racks.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks. I can deal with clumsy UI.

What I really meant was, did you find the processing of the dsp to be adequate? There's more than one way to implement dsp functions, they each have different impacts on the signal output quality.

You

As it handles the same amount of input channels it doesn't seem to add any real benefits over the t.racks.

Again its software can be downloaded to see but has a bit nicer interface and offers the possibility of a phone app as well, though limited. I wouldn't say either of these is better than the Behringer DSP on the NXD amps and that also gives wattage control to protect units from being overpowered.


Having the DSP on the amp isn't a bad option neither but then each amp needs to be configured on its own and then saved to memory. It will then auto load the last used pre-set. To me stacking amps wasn't much of an issue but for some, it might be.
I wouldnt class these external DSP boxes to be any better than those in the Behringer amps and would prefer the cleaner and simple interface it uses too.

Now if we compared these options to what can be done with an audio interface then you get software controls that are some of the best in the industry. With an interface, you also get the ability of frequency monitoring and better mixing controls.

If a user thinks they will maybe want to have 2x or more standalone DSP boxes for say 8+ channel controls then really they should consider a recommended audio interface option. Possibly using one via AUM on iPad or a PC DAW or what I am for doing and using the Behringer X-Air series products that uses its own software. Each option brings its own pros and cons.

A user may not have an iPad a user may not want to use a fully-fledged DAW software solution and the Behringer X-Air software kinda fits in the middle still offering all the control and monitoring you need but it can be controlled via PC, Android or iOS devices.

The audio interface approach opens up more doors and controls with the ability of using world-class EQ software plugins.
For me the X-Air solutions struck a nice balance and the ability to connect via wifi up to 10 phones/tablets to control it is brilliant. You can use an old phone or tablet for channel or frequency monitoring and another device for controls etc.

X-Air XR18 or X18 are very good audio interfaces for the money and can be got sometimes in good condition second hand.
It depends how far you want to take things.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks. I can deal with clumsy UI.

What I really meant was, did you find the processing of the dsp to be adequate? There's more than one way to implement dsp functions, they each have different impacts on the signal output quality.

The primary reason for using these with what we are doing is having specific frequency control and the ability to use good filtering on a crossover. For instance if someone had a large BK on an amp with no DSP then I can assure you that on an amp with DSP and using good settings they can achieve much better results, control and remove unwanted piston pang and tune the output to suit the make/model of the transducer to the users preference.

On more professional EQ software you get much more features and controls.
Fabfilter Pro Q3 is one of the best in the industry and can be used on iPad via AUM or while more expensive purchased as a plugin for DAW software solutions.

I think I have researched most options within reason and compared also to PC virtual solutions some have tried to suggest in the past were good options to consider. Yet in actual operation, they have issues and are not such a good working solution to those being offered in this thread.

The proof is in the testing for most people the Behringer DSP on the amps could bring excellent benefits and still in my mind are the best amps to buy for larger or upmarket shakers/transducers. For budget exciters then yeah cheaper amp and external solutions highlighted are worth considering.

An interface like those shown gives you control of all units via one solution and something with 18 channels should be enough for most people.

 

[Wmacky]

My understanding is that for exciters, DSP is a extravagance that is not really needed as long as all exciters are on their own card so that Sim hub high / low cut filter can be group applied right?

For large transducers, I know that DSP is a must and offers the best value when purchased as a large amp feature.

At this point, I'm trying to limit complexity. I currently have have race + flight controls, motion, wind simulation, surround audio, exciter/ buttkicker tactile, VR, and monitor. I'm getting lost in a vast sea of wiring, and complexity.

 

[Mr Latte]

My understanding is that for exciters, DSP is a extravagance that is not really needed as long as all exciters are on their own card so that Sim hub high / low cut filter can be group applied right?

For large transducers, I know that DSP is a must and offers the best value when purchased as a large amp feature.

At this point, I'm trying to limit complexity. I currently have have race + flight controls, motion, wind simulation, surround audio, exciter/ buttkicker tactile, VR, and monitor. I'm getting lost in a vast sea of wiring, and complexity.

To some degree yes as their are users with these and enjoying them without DSP. That being said the usage of specific EQ can help a user define a response more to their liking as you can increase or decrease the amplitude of specific frequencies.

 

[turen009]

To some degree yes as their are users with these and enjoying them without DSP. That being said the usage of specific EQ can help a user define a response more to their liking as you can increase or decrease the amplitude of specific frequencies.

Compared to a hardware DSP solution, what is your opinion on software solutions, something like Equalizer APO for the exciters?

 

[hvb83]

I'm trying to understand how these Behringer X-units.

What does the usb interface do precisely and how can you feed the signal of each chanel into the amp?

 

[Mr Latte]

Compared to a hardware DSP solution, what is your opinion on software solutions, something like Equalizer APO for the exciters?

My opinion probably doesn't matter but I personally found the discussed hardware options better. I think its good to be able to apply different curves/slopes of filtering for crossovers and then to compare in testing these with PEQ for particular Hz applied within the curve. Not all options make doing this easy or possible or with a simple interface.

Feel free as you're welcome though to do your own testing or comparisons and share with people how you get on.

With the exciters, it's harder to justify spending too much as they themselves don't cost a great deal and neither do they need what some would term as costly amps. A point I was making is that if someone needs 2x 4 channel DSP boxes for 8 exciters then the cost of those is getting to a point an audio interface
may be a better option.

I'm trying to understand how these Behringer X-units.

What does the usb interface do precisely and how can you feed the signal of each chanel into the amp?

You can get plenty of videos on Youtube.
SImply they let a person take an audio device and convert the analog input into digital to then apply various audio controls to the audio within audio software. From here the user can do many things with the audio prior to it then being sent to the amplifers.

Budget audio interfaces can have just a single or be 2 channel stereo. Once you start going into using more audio input channels then the price increases. Many brands are available but most of these need a DAW software application to communicate and let the user apply various audio effects or filters. The X-Air can do this as well but it comes with its own software solution that works over wifi based devices.

 

[Tom_Hampton]

I've been looking for SpeakOn mounting panels....There are a myriad of options for NL4MP (Neutrik D-series), but finding panels (premade or custom) for the NL8MPR (Neutrik G-series) has been has been more challenging...even more so, if you don't want to spend goofy money for a punched steel plate (one similar plate was $80 USD). Anyway....I found these:

RP2UM | 2U ''G'' Series Connector Panels in several configurations

www.audiopile.net

Which is $10, and can be configured with 4 or 6 G-size, or 4 G-size + 8 D-size. These are 19" rack mounted, 2U high.

They also have a 1U version, for just D-sized holes (either 8 or 12). Again, $10.

https://www.audiopile.net/RP1UM

Note that there are a lot of other options for panel mount connectors that will fit into a D-size hole (USB, serial, Video, etc). Its not strictly limited to SpeakOn use.

 

[Mr Latte]

Examples from UK switch to USA

 

[turen009]

So I need some help here after I installed my Dayton exciters. I am using a Vantec 7.1 usb sound card and a Douk M4 amp to power the 4 exciters. The problems I am facing is in Simhub, when I hit "Test Audio" for each channel, the exciters are not following the pattern of the channels I used when buzzing. In the USB sound card software, 4 input and 4 outputs are selected, and they identify correctly as FL, FR, RL and RR. However, in Simhub, testing Channel 1 audio buzzes the top left exciter only, while testing Channel 2 buzzes the top left AND top right exciters simultaneously. Channel 3 buzzes top right and bottom left simultaneously. Shouldn't it be the case that each channel should send signal to one exciter and not multiple at the same time?

 

[Tom_Hampton]

Examples from UK switch to USA

Yep, I did find those in my search also. But, they only seem to have the single panel option that includes G-series cutouts (4 G-size + 8 D-size), and its $6 more.

Plates with G-sized punch-outs are quite a bit harder to find than D-sized. Case in point....pennelcomm has 15 panels, only one of which has G-sized punch-outs...and, that panel is 50/50.

 

[blekenbleu]

In the USB sound card software, 4 input and 4 outputs are selected, and they identify correctly as FL, FR, RL and RR.
However, in Simhub, testing Channel 1 audio buzzes the top left exciter only,
while testing Channel 2 buzzes the top left AND top right exciters simultaneously.
Channel 3 buzzes top right and bottom left simultaneously.

Don't know about your "USB sound card software",
but that SimHub behavior suggests that Windows so-called Speaker Setup is wrong;
avoid Quadraphonic, which appears to be Microsoft's default.
Replace "5.1" with "7.1" in this:
How to Configure 5.1 Sound on Windows 10

 

[turen009]

Can anyone recommend some seat isolators? I am using six Dayton exciters on my seat (4 back, 2 sides) and planning to install a BK LFE under the seat. My seat is NRG Prisma and rig is Simlab GT1 Evo.

 

[Domenico Franco]

Hello. I have 4mini lfe, one on each corner. In simhub under the Gear Shift effect can someone explain to me why if I put the effect on the rear buttkickers it plays also in the front ones. My profile in simhiub is in Corners mode on (the chassis one on simvibe i think,never tried it).I did try the custom channel setup but nothing. All the test of the speakers and its respective channels are ok (front left,front right,rear left,rear right). In game, Iracing to be clear, when I change gear also the front ones make a vibration.ty

 

[Mr Latte]

I got one of these on eBay for £220 brand new, so couldn't resist.

Is regarded as being one of the best current soundcards at the moment, yet very hard to find any decent reviews on. Based on its predecessor performance anyway, this should be a great-sounding card and I intend to use this as my primary audio for an intended new PC build sometime probably in 2021.

Not sure if anyone here had the original EVGA soundcard or has already bought one of these?

Details

I will also consider upgrading to 2xmore Creative X3 soundcards for the tactile (as its also a good soundcard) Was having WIN10 dolby error message with Asus U7 that I could not fix or find a solution even though having multiple U7 cards worked fine with Simhub.