Season 9 - General Discussion

[Reik Major]

So now watch Reik's lap again and pause exactly on 3:43. Nothing personal Reik, you're still my hero!

He, he, no problem at all. I can take (value) criticism and it's mentioned in a constructive way, so all good.

It made me have a deeper look into it and the outcome is as follows...

Victor, for me it seems like it's much closer in my case, so nobody ever mentioned it since my lap is uploaded (Dec./2011). And believe me, David is the most honest and straight guy here. We had many cutting debates before. I'm sure he would have blamed me for this one too, if he noticed it. David, why didn't you say something?

Finally we always trust in everyone's positive intentions (everyone makes mistakes - everyone trys to avoid them). So if I had noticed it was a cut, I had not continued at full speed. We trust in everyone to do it this way. Unluckily it felt like being on the line (from the cockpit view), so I continued. I quit many other good laps before.

I think David is just asking if you'd do it the same way (letting off if a cut is involved)...

 

[Victor Ivanov]

Many of us don't use team speak. We communicate here and on the server

Victor, I think the misunderstanding here is that for us, the p.b. displayed at PrestoGP.com is your official p.b. and must be free of cut's and running wides. It is no big drama, but now you (and Reik) know that we prefer that video's and p.b.'s are 100% on track.

Btw, we use the same definition as in football, there has to be air between the wheel and the white line to be off the track

Hahah that's cool

 

[David Turnbull]

lol theres a can of worms been opened here oops

my intention was not to get back into a huge debate about it (how many times have we been here) but was to point out the rules presto has lived by for so long, none of the presto regulars would use a lap like that to compare to and probably wouldve aborted it so it didnt show on the time sheets at prestogp site, at least now victor knows whats asked of presto drivers and not just in a race but at all times, practise the lines you mean to race and everything will be fine, as reik or nico cant remember who (both will have the same opinion though) says mistakes will happen and no one will be punished for cuts or wides (unless excessive) its only for our own conscience and the knowledge that our fellow racers are trying hard to stay within the lines too.

getting to reiks video though, i really didnt notice that wide, the diffrent views youve made and the video explain the situation perfectly thanks for that, now please go sit in the naughty corner and have a think about that lap, very dissappointing reik

p.s when reik says straight and honest about me victor its that i speak my mind i dont like holding things back especially when all of us have been together so long, the rest know what im like, if ive offended you just say something and we'll sort it out, i make mistakes too and huge amounts of them so please dont think im bringing this up because im perfect, far from it, it only benefits us all if we all practise to the same standards, everyones allowed mistakes though

 

[Reik Major]

There's only one solution - I have to do a quicker but clean lap (I'm just afraid I'm not able to).

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Yup, it's almost impossible to avoid those hawkeyes David is really straight shooter, doesn't spare words. It's nice to have such quality control, he is absolutely right, once again.

I have trouble in that same corner, i think all of us have. So far i've cutted it far too often, similar to what GT training in this track has been in the past. First i cut that corner without any remorse and later when the driveline is solid, i start to concentrate on that single corner (i'm on that point excactly now, started to concentrate a little extra on that corner in the last practice race.. My PrestoGP time is clean, i haven't checked but it's either legal or just like Reiks, I can remember that i got really good turn-in on all three coreners that really lit me on fire on the last two corners... In sector times it was full second faster than the next best so... I can't swear that there was "air" between lines and tires, most likely there was not, it was either onth line or just beside, latter makes it illegal, really can't be sure. Also, i'm expecting a faster lap in these last two weeks...

There's very little time between that corner and the previous ones, it's a pure combination, all those three corners have to be spot on. I'm not particularly alarmed yet, if it was one or two days to race, it would be too late to get it together, meaning automatic lift off in races when cutting. I rather train it so i can just drive there. Fortunately there's two-three seconds to ponder whether it was a cut or not so you can correct the possible gain in the next braking zone too.

I don't know if there's a curb on the left side before the right-left combination (left is the one mostly cutted), if there were, it would give a little bit more room to aim car correctly.. Now it just means just a tad slower but it could affect tire degradation in the long run, those who do it the right way need to turn wheel much more there, also driver fatigue is less if we keep going straight with a lift off so it can't be every lap.

Racedistance has to be respected, Balestre knew that and Senna was left without world championship win because of that well, not just because of that but valid reason enough, it really is one of those rules that can not be broken.)...

 

[David Turnbull]

that wasnt a challenge reik lol please dont go faster PLEASE GOD DONT GO FASTER!!

 

[Victor Ivanov]

There's only one solution - I have to do a quicker but clean lap (I'm just afraid I'm not able to).

Same here

@David Turnbull you haven't offended me at all. It's finished and I never drive like that in a race or official session. Never.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Hmm, i need a confirmation on that "air" between tires and lines rule. Does it mean that two tires can be completey off and the rest two can not touch the line? Or it's a cut when "air" is between all tires and line, no matter how tiny gap it is... I'm fine with both, just getting the right edge to judge.

So far i've been treating it so that all four tires can not cross white lines but i've driven with both rule definitions, it's not a problem, won't be showing up in lap times. It takes a bit more planning and requires more concentration in the stricter form, while he looser (what most real life championships use..) gives a bit more breathing space. The difference is minute and possibly we discussed it last season but if i can't remember it, better to ask...

RD house rules are the stricter form, IMHO it's not realistic since there are a lot of tracks where it's integral to track design to be able to drive on top of white lines and the looser form doesn't leave anything to discuss...

Would it be a good thing to draw some pics to clarify these? We used it with SRS and it stopped all the interpretations of rules immediately.. Written rules aren't as good as visual ones in some occasions. Like FIA F1 dimensions, the written version is multiple pages, the visual one is four images on four pages...

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

2 wheels on track at all times, there has to be contact between wheel and white line for it to be on the track. If you can see air between line and wheel it is off

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Thanks, that's what i presumed. The RD interpretation is hard to enforce and is not logical, tracks are not built so.

 

[Victor Ivanov]

So basically we can still cut that corner but we have to touch the line

 

[Sean Greenlaw]

I thinks its only considered 'a cut' if 2 wheels arent on track, so going as fast as you can through this turn with 2 wheels on track then its not cutting .
White lines are part of the track so aslong as 2 wheels are touching the white line the car is on track at all times and therefore legal. This would also come in to affect down long straights and not just in corners.
Heres my lap again i still can quite get to my old pb ,must have been pretty good lap and withing the limits. Im awaiting a updated Reiktec telemetry setup adjustment to our evolved driving style from season 8 and im sure ill get there again

 

[Bob Miley]

I always find discussions like this funny. There are pages and pages on RD people asking if it's ok to go fully off track because it's the easiest racing line, asking whether the kerb counts as the white line and so on.

I don't think it could be any clearer than this.

2 wheels on track at all times, there has to be contact between wheel and white line for it to be on the track. If you can see air between line and wheel it is off

 

[Dino Paolini]

I always find discussions like this funny. There are pages and pages on RD people asking if it's ok to go fully off track because it's the easiest racing line, asking whether the kerb counts as the white line and so on.

I don't think it could be any clearer than this.

You have to understand though that it's not always that easy to adapt to this, when you're for example used to having the kerbs count as an extension to the white lines, as it is on most places where I do my racing usually.
Another thing is, that you have to wrap your head around having the fact that cutting through the grass with 2 tires whilst 2 tires are on the white is technicaly legal, whilst having 2 tires on the curb and the other 2 on green extension area is not.

So I hope instead of saying stuff like "don't look at his lap, he's cheating left and right", we can come to an agreement where we can point out to others that we have to look out for the boundaries on certain corners per track, all in a friendly manner.
This is very discouraging for newcomers otherwise, like I'm am one too.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

And it's not a bad thing to recap, i'm now fairly certain that i asked this last season, it might've been in some practice session or in forum but nonetheless, i needed a recap on that rule. It is true that there are number of interpretations to the cutting rule, some use game restrictions, some even use no tires over white lines (that is frustrating as hell) ....

In one french "super-league" (several top european leagues "UEFA cup" which we decided to not participate) used that rule and it pretty much ruined the racing. In other sense that league was the closest to prestogp level, they even had safety car driver in each race acting as race director giving real time penalties, full course yellows, live streaming, 1½h races and 2 divisions... Really massive thing, it must've been nightmare to organize, just think about it 4 volunteers per race evening... I drove two practice races and i have to say i was impressed, everything was so professional and well thought of. Except the white line rules, racing was more concentrating on track boundaries since in a lot of cases when you start to feel the rumble strip, you are already illegal.. Stupid decision, a lot of teams decided to not participate because of that (and the lack of democracy, teams had zero influence on anything..)

 

[Reik Major]

So I hope instead of saying stuff like "don't look at his lap, he's cheating left and right", we can come to an agreement where we can point out to others that we have to look out for the boundaries on certain corners per track, all in a friendly manner.
This is very discouraging for newcomers otherwise, like I'm am one too.

I completely get your point Dino. I think you shouldn't worry about the tone of such debates, because we consider everyone here to be a gentleman (on track and anywhere else).

In other leagues you may do something wrong and get your penalty. But that's not our way. Things on track are as they are. So we need to talk about such things with each other from time to time instead of having one authority making a call.

When Viktor or another driver say "Reiks lap is illegal" he doesn't offend me. (And remembering he is a gentleman, I don't feel he says that with bad intentinos.) He just clearly mentions a fact from his point of view. Finally he was right and we had a cunstructive discussion to again define the way we want to handle these situations.

In the past it took me a while to learn that such clear statements aren't meant to force a fight but to find a solution quickly. Remember it's not the admins responsibility to make the league a succes, it's each members responsibility. So everyone's very welcome to give his opinion to a discussion. I liked your statement you made above the paragraph I quoted.

I hope you feel encouraged to throw in your opinion as often as you like. Don't hide with it. You don't get your head torn off if your opinion is against the majority. On the contrary it could widen our view on something.

 

[Alfonso Clarke]

Here's my PB Hot-Lap

P.s For just now will prob change in a few days

 

[David Turnbull]

new pb, 1.09.360

timing glitch shows it as a 1.09.6 for some reason.

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

new pb, 1.09.360

timing glitch shows it as a 1.09.6 for some reason.

Does it still show in the replay list as "hot lap"? I can recall a bug that caused the last lap not to be listed in the results at all.

Great lap, i think all of us were looking specially at those white lines since it's been a topic lately, that was like a schoolbook example on how to drive.. Kudos.

 

[David Turnbull]

yes kennett it shows as hotlap for that session, if you watch closely to the live timing as i go over the line you see its the .3 lap, its a wierd one, i looked for ages for it to make a video of it lol