• Welcome to the largest (sim) racing website in the world!
    Blurring the line between real and virtual motorsports.

Featured rFactor 2: The Big Interview (Part 3)

Discussion in 'rFactor 2' started by Paul Jeffrey, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. Oldzeb

    Oldzeb

    Messages:
    189
    Ratings:
    +113
    the biggest troll in RD and other sim forums shouldn't pay attention or parma'ban!
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Haha Haha x 1
  2. Deleted member 909406

    Deleted member 909406

    Ratings:
    +0
    Dear Sirs, my application for removal is already being considered.
    Very happy for you. I am always with you.
     
  3. Andy_J

    Andy_J
    I hate VR. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Premium

    Messages:
    7,702
    Ratings:
    +3,565
    ffs, bye.:rolleyes:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Renato Simioni

    Renato Simioni
    Reiza Studios

    Messages:
    1,590
    Ratings:
    +3,936
    With apologies for contributing to take the thread further off-topic, but just to comment briefly on this.. I´d actually agree with the essence of the argument - Codies´ F1 series is a better F1 simulation than given credit for and not inferior to the F-Ultimate all things considered. But all the video basically does is compare performance of the two sim cars as a gauge of realism, which isn´t a very in-depth way to analyse the topic.

    Generally speaking, most would probably agree a sim can be considered a sim from the number of real-life variables it simulates and how accurately it simulates them. The so-called hardcore sims generally simulate (or are thought to simulate) a wider range of such variables, specifically in vehicle dynamics such as aerodynamics and tire model which can (if done right) result in a deeper, more accurate driving experience relative to another racing game or sim that simulates less of such variables.

    Performance gauging is an important way to verify the overall accuracy of the simulation but accurate performance in no way ensures accurate simulation - it´s actually the easiest thing to just tweak tire grip, aero and engine power to achieve more accurate performance in a way that makes it look accurate - hence the abundance of "reality check" racing game videos which demonstrate pretty much all modern racing games do a fairly good job at that. The issue is how they get to that result and how many variables they accounted for to get there.

    To mention a couple of significant ones in this particular comparison: Interlagos has a significantly high altitude about 800m over sea level, that affects air density which in turn affects the car´s downforce, drag and engine power. Interlagos is also often warm during the F1 weekend - higher temps also reduces air density which further reduces aero and engine performance. These two variables alone can add up to anywhere from 10 to 15% overall performance loss depending on the car and engine.

    AMS1 does not simulate air pressure variation, it doesn´t simulate wind effects and only superficially simulates ambient and track temperatures - it´s close to ideal weather conditions at all times so it stands to reason that a car would be faster around Interlagos than its real counterpart if the physics was otherwise accurate (although the F-Ultimate still almost certainly has a bit too much grip and downforce, not to mention lack of proper hybrid simulation).

    If the Codies F1 game simulate those variables correctly then they surely deserve credit as a racing simulator; if not, their relatively more accurate performance does not mean a better simulation and it may actually count for the opposite. Either way, all these variables and a lot more ought to be factored if you really want to gauge simulation realism. And we´re not even talking about track variables (accuracy, grip levels) yet..

    Not such a brief comment in the end, but there you have it :p
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
    • Like Like x 10
    • Beer Beer x 5
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. Spinelli

    Spinelli

    Messages:
    955
    Ratings:
    +256
    This was by far the best interview. The most questions about technical core advancements in A.I model., wet weather model, realroad model, sound engine, damage model etc. That's more like it (although I didn't like all the answers) :)

    I think this will benefit, and is important to, 90% of people, not just those with constantly changing shift patterns. I've never seen any videogame, in any industry, where there is such a ridiculously high percentage of locked servers (presumably mostly for league-racing) as I do in AMS and RF2. On top of that, so many servers aren't running stock content (made slightly more convenient in RF2), and on top of that there just aren't generally a lot of players online in the first place, and the servers that do have people, well, as I said, probably 40-70% of them are locked :mad::mad::mad:

    Those 3 combinations literally mean the most frustrating and difficult 2 videogames to play online in videogame history. It's not just about "constantly changing shift patterns" it's about having a "normal" life. How many people in this already niche market want to be in a position where they must schedule a specific time of their day/life to play a videogame? Most people play a videogame when they feel like it, they don't say, "OK, tomorrow at 7:35 PM I have to play a videogame" or "sorry friend, I have to leave your birthday early because I have to play a videogame at 9:00 AM tomorrow morning." Sorry but this whole mentality is one of the main issues with online play in simracing especially AMS and RF2.

    And for those running leagues, can't you unlock your servers throughout the week and only lock them when it comes to the official race weekend stuff (official qualifying, race, etc.)? At least those in the public looking to play can enjoy some good sessions with you all. I was in a league for maybe 3 or 4 races many years ago and they used to keep all their servers open to the public, nightly practice sessions, even practice quali and races. They would only lock the servers when the "official" sessions happened. I don't know why everyone has to have such an elitist mindset when it comes to servers in the simracing multiplayer community.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  6. MarcG

    MarcG
    Premium

    Messages:
    1,204
    Ratings:
    +668

    LIES, you missed the deadline, i want a refund, this dlc is too expensive etc etc :p
     
    • Haha Haha x 4
  7. Miguel Batista

    Miguel Batista
    Premium

    Messages:
    381
    Ratings:
    +147
    Yes. One thing F1 games don't do yet (and i do consider them sims) is the downforce effect on a car. Car dynamics don't change (or change very little) with speed. It is especially noticeable with braking and fast changes in direction. I haven't played AMS in a while (no VR) but the formula ultimate was a blast! I could feel what the car was telling me even if it is a bit too fast. In the f1 games I can't enjoy them that much as a slight press of the brake pedal causes my wheels to lock even if I am doing 200mph and the car feels sluggish in fast direction changes getting understeer even at speed. Sure I can tune out the understeer but I can't see it disappear the faster I go. That is what makes me say that AMS is a better sim than the f1 games regardless of performance.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Kenny Paton

    Kenny Paton
    Staff Premium

    Messages:
    11,845
    Ratings:
    +5,417
    A reminder that this is an rF2 thread guys, so let's head back there please.
     
  9. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon

    Messages:
    83
    Ratings:
    +54
    Gutted to hear that they will leave the community to create its own drift cars.
    How are they supposed to do it properly if they don't have an upto date road tyre to work from, at least just do one official drift car that's not encrypted so the drifting modders have something to work from.
    Just bought ac, and I really think it's only fair if S397 release an official drift car so that large drifting community have a proper car to enjoy, ac is quite arcade if you ask me
     
  10. Marcel Offermans

    Marcel Offermans
    Studio 397

    Messages:
    896
    Ratings:
    +1,833
    I don't think there is anything magical to creating a car that will drift. Just look at how they make cars drift in real life and apply the same modifications to one of our cars (there are plenty that are not encrypted).
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon

    Messages:
    83
    Ratings:
    +54
    Do they have road tyres though or are they racing slicks, I personally think we could pinch a lot of people from the ac drifting community, if they had a proper car to play with here, thanks for the reply though, I know you're busy enough
     
  12. Spinelli

    Spinelli

    Messages:
    955
    Ratings:
    +256
    I don't agree. It's a lot about the core physics engine as well (physics engine, tyre model even the ICE model can influence it). Drifting in every game/sim is different not just from a FFB point of view or even driving in general but from simply viewing of the car behaviour.

    I've not been able to replicate the following in any sim however I can, by farrr, come closest to the following in Netkar Pro and Live for Speed (and the most difficult in iRacing and ISI/rFactor engine based sims like AMS, RF1, RF2, etc.). I've also done the following in real life quite a few times (although admittedly in more forgiving cars like F2000 / Skip Barber type cars, not F3s like the following video):

    Lots of things to notice in that video:

    - big angles

    - lots of control at big angles

    - when the car stops increasing it's oversteer angle, it doesn't do a quick (and often seeming too-early) snap-back-to-centre but instead a) the angle can be controlled, b) the angle can be further increased with further throttle and then more steering correction to make up for the increased throttle and oversteer angle

    - when the oversteer angle does decrease (car straightening out) it decreases controllably especially if the driver is modulating the throttle (rather than a sudden and often seemingly early-out-of-nowhere snap back to centre)

    - when the driver adds throttle while already in the slide, the car doesn't suddenly snap out and, also, the revs don't suddenly skyrocket instantly to redline as if all grip was suddenly lost or as if the car suddenly gained 10x the amount of torque it would normally, instead the revs go up slowly because there is still grip/friction to overcome even during oversteer/wheelspin

    - notice how, often, in the middle of the slide, the driver adds a nice little "kick" of throttle but, when the kick of throttle is added, the oversteer does not increase and neither does the wheelspin. Instead, the kick of throttle adds torque and weight transfer to the back helping stabilize and add grip back to the rear but importantly without increasing the slide or wheelspin in any way (drivers do this even in F1, even in F3.5 cars in the rain). Example @ 0:13.

    - the driver, in the last part of the slide can often floor the throttle at or near 100% but, again, the revs don't skyrocket to redline as if all grip was suddenly lost or the car suddenly gained mass amounts of power, instead, the revs do rise but in a controllable manner as you can almost sense that the tyres want to grip and it's almost a grip/slip/grip/slip rather than just massive slipppppp while the revs bounce off the rev-limiter. Example 0:58 - 1:01, 1:07 - 1:09, 1:22 - 1:24.

    - also, notice the car always continues, for the most part, on it's originally trajectory from before the slide occurred? While applying opposite lock and also while reducing opposite lock (when slide is decreasing and car straightening out) the vehicle keeps on naturally heading for the outside of the corner

    That video above has general fundamental oversteering behaviour concepts which are in all cars from a road car to a Formula Truck to an F1 to a Stadium Supertruck to a Prototype to GT. All cars, car setups, tyres, etc. can obviously make things worse or better - and there are situations where cars do snap-spin and of course don't oversteer as gently and easily (nor as big an angle) as in that video - but the general dynamics are present in that video and quite different to most sims (especially iRacing and ISI/RF physics engine).

    P.S. I'm not neccessarilly talking specifically about purpose-built drift cars but rather general physics during rear slide angles and wheelspin.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. avenger82

    avenger82
    Krzysztof Maj Premium

    Messages:
    244
    Ratings:
    +133
    Project Cars 2 has updated their SETA model. AC had 10 iterations of tire models
     
  14. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins

    Messages:
    1,156
    Ratings:
    +334
    Not to mention the (in)famous iRacing! rF2 has had many. AMS has updates relative to GSC and rF. Etc., etc.....
     
  15. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo
    Premium

    Messages:
    2,006
    Ratings:
    +763
    Many? There was non CPM and CPM, what else?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.