rF2 | Development Roadmap For January

Gasper Zupan

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I would just like someone to point me to the title and say: this sim has better AI than rFactor2. Ok, AMS is high up there with rF2, but what else is out there? "It could be a lot better" is just a thing of imagination and expectation. Usualy we set both to high, thats for sure :)
 
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Salvatore Sirignano

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I dont understand many posts here. What's wrong with rf2 AI? I mean, I mostly race online, but sometimes I go singleplayer for the exotic combos or train with heavy trafic. It's not perfect, but better than AMS, AC and iR AI. So, what sim is the refeence title to compare with?
@Gasper Zupan AMS has significantly better AI slipstreaming and overtaking, vs each other and vs the player. Reiza made significant code changes from build 1.5 onwards that really nailed it.
In rF2 at Spa 66 I have never seen a slipstream pass.

Since late 2017 when I bought a rift to play with rF2, maybe further back, something in the AI had changed regarding how they drive. In the corners they stab the throttle several times, on and off, meaning that every corner exit is in effect a drag race and they can´t overtake each other as well as they should. They used to blend the throttle. Sounds minor, but it is actually a huge difference. Here´s a vid..
 

numbersevenhull

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I would just like someone to point me to the title and say: this sim has better AI than rFactor2. Ok, AMS is high up there with rF2, but what else is out there? "It could be a lot better" is just a thing of imagination and expectation. Usualy we set both to high, thats for sure :)
That would be iracing, and it's still in development. Park any cost issues, on the basic question of AI right out of the box it shows rF2 up for the shambolic mess it is. It's staggeringly good in iracing and you can race it with absolute confidence which ultimately is what it is about.
 

Gasper Zupan

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Ok, but this does not mean one needs to abandon rF2 does it? Because most of the time I have a decent experience with AI. You can see for yourself:

 
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MarcG

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I would just like someone to point me to the title and say: this sim has better AI than rFactor2. Ok, AMS is high up there with rF2, but what else is out there? "It could be a lot better" is just a thing of imagination and expectation. Usualy we set both to high, thats for sure :)
iRacing & RaceRoom are equal/if not better, ACC has good AI, AMS2 will more than likely have good AI at release. RF2 AI has been left to gather dust and therefore others have caught up.
 
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Yep. Going back five years, rF2 had by far the best AI implementation and the only thing that came near it was rF1. I remember the horror of racing early AI in Assetto Corsa, at the time it looked like Kunos and others will never even get close to the ballpark of rF2. But five years is a long time and things move on. If you look at how AI applications have advanced in society, sim AI should actually be a lot further along than it is, but at least we should be at a point where old and tested "fast path" based AI should work bug free.
 
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Salvatore Sirignano

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Ok, but this does not mean one needs to abandon rF2 does it? Because most of the time I have a decent experience with AI. You can see for yourself:


@Gasper Zupan you just proved my point ;)
At 4:12 in your first video, what could be an awesome 3 wide battle is ruined because the AI car in front of you is tapping his brakes instead of slipstreaming and overtaking the other guy. Instead you go by them as if they aren´t there. Since 2012 rF2´s AI has done that...

And at 5:55 too, watching more of it.... 11:10....
 
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tr1v1um

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@Gasper Zupan you just proved my point ;)
At 4:12 in your first video, what should be an awesome 3 wide battle is ruined because the AI car in front of you is tapping his brakes instead of slipstreaming and overtaking the other guy. Instead you go by them as if they aren´t there. Since 2012 rF2´s AI has done that, for me it ruins it completely.

And at 5:55 too, watching more of it.... 11:10....
Without going too much into detail here and trying to avoid all those sim vs sim discussions, I think that I wouldn't stick my nose with confidence into a three wide battle in most of the products that have been mentioned here, besides rF2. Most sims have their own pros and cons, while player/general awareness is still one that stands out most in all of the products. AMS AI is good at slip streaming, but it has other shortcommings that make me restart races quite often and it shows that the AI has shortcommings in how it defends compared to rF2. AC was never good when it comes to AI and I have no idea how people even mention the AC AI train here. The first glimpses of iRacing look good, but how good it really is needs to be seen when all the cars and tracks are supported and how it integrates with the general feature set. ACC AI is decent, RR AI seems far too agressive at times with zero player awereness and PC/PC2 AI is what it is. In that regard I am looking forward to the feedback from the hyping bregade who allready praise AMS2 as the second best thing since sliced bread.

With that said, the whole problem with rF2 AI is that it once worked really great, making it possible to use all the features within the sim and making it a general great racing experience. In the past you could have coop endurance races with proper working FCYs, dynamic weather while racing against human players and very competent AI with very good player awreness that didn't tap the break in mili seconds gaps braking the immersion. Where else do you get that currently in sim racing? I don't think that the competition from other products is too strong. The real competition comes from users who know that all this stuff once worked and that the protential is there within the sim. ;)
 

Anomalistics

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@Gasper Zupan AMS has significantly better AI slipstreaming and overtaking, vs each other and vs the player. Reiza made significant code changes from build 1.5 onwards that really nailed it.
In rF2 at Spa 66 I have never seen a slipstream pass.

Since late 2017 when I bought a rift to play with rF2, maybe further back, something in the AI had changed regarding how they drive. In the corners they stab the throttle several times, on and off, meaning that every corner exit is in effect a drag race and they can´t overtake each other as well as they should. They used to blend the throttle. Sounds minor, but it is actually a huge difference. Here´s a vid..
If I recall correctly, a patch was introduced that changed the behaviour. I told the developers and they were like 'nothing has changed'

This video is a perfect example of what I was going on about, it was driving me crazy! To think that the AI has now regressed..
 

Gevatter

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Number 3 will shock you!

10) Finish the UI you've been teasing for years.
9) Don't release buggy/unfinished DLC content...
8) ... for double the money everybody else charges.
7) Stop focusing solely on e-sports.
6) Bring AI back to par with the other sims.
5) Implement a proper transmission model.
4) Don't prioritize paid content over core upgrades.
3) Release hotfixes/optimizations for new DLCs in a timely manner.
2) Implement Single player game modes like championship/carrer.
1) Fix the bugs everybody was telling you about for years!

//Errata:
8) should read "... for double the money everybody else (except iRacing) charges." Thanks @MarcG
 
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MarcG

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Number 3 will shock you!

10) Finish the UI you've been teasing for years.
9) Don't release buggy/unfinished DLC content...
8) ... for double the money everybody else charges
7) Stop focusing solely on e-sports.
6) Bring AI back to par with the other sims.
5) Implement a proper transmission model.
4) Don't prioritize paid content over core upgrades.
3) Release hotfixes/optimizations for new DLCs in a timely manner.
2) Implement Single player game modes like championship/carrer.
1) Fix the bugs everybody was telling you about for years!.
#8 is an out right lie
 
Jun 2, 2019
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Number 3 will shock you!

10) Finish the UI you've been teasing for years.
9) Don't release buggy/unfinished DLC content...
8) ... for double the money everybody else charges
7) Stop focusing solely on e-sports.
6) Bring AI back to par with the other sims.
5) Implement a proper transmission model.
4) Don't prioritize paid content over core upgrades.
3) Release hotfixes/optimizations for new DLCs in a timely manner.
2) Implement Single player game modes like championship/carrer.
1) Fix the bugs everybody was telling you about for years!.
This 100%. An excellent list for the devs to keep in mind. Thanks.
 

MarcG

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Yeah you're right. While we get four tracks for 15€ for ACC a single track for rF2 costs between 7€ - 12€.
It should say double to triple the money.
You said "everybody" last time i checked RF2 DLC was cheaper than iRacing and even so if you can't afford it then you have bigger problems at hand.
 

Gevatter

The James May of Simracing
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You said "everybody" last time i checked RF2 DLC was cheaper than iRacing and even so if you can't afford it then you have bigger problems at hand.
Maybe I don't want to afford it because it isn't worth it for rF2 in its current state ;)
But yes, everybody except the subscription based Service is cheaper. I'll add an annotation.