AC Rd 4 of the F3 Championship -Japanese GP 4th April 2024.

[Shed 17]

Is this the circuit?

Chang International circuit

PAY ATTENTION: DO NOT COPY THIS TRACK TO ANY OTHER WEBSITE, BEFORE ASKING ME FOR APPROVAL. ALSO IS NOT ALLOWED TO CHANGE THE CONTENT OF THE TRACK IN ANY KIND OF WAYS AND REPRODUCING IT FOR OTHER PURPOSES AND GAMES PRIOR MY APPROVAL. THANKS FOR...

www.overtake.gg

I would like to start practicing early because I never raced there (China I knew from the F1 series)

Yes, that’s the one Omar, I’ll get the details up over the weekend and the server running for practice.

 

[KFMaster]

if anyone is remotely interested....

That brings me onto another topic, as I hate this bleeding F3 car to death, unfortunately i now cannot get it out of my head.
So i thought i would confront it head on.
For the first time I picked one of the alien drivers, videoed us both and time wise plotted our trip around Suzuka.

Plotted by hand???
Would love to see the Aliens' telemetry data in Motec

Bit of a shocker for me, I have always bleated on that my braking is loosing me time " wrong" " bugger ".
Now i am not saying i am just as competent as the aliens at braking, obviously I could never achieve that considering all the problems i have in that department.
But i tend to brake early and apply the brakes at about 50% ish , i take longer, but my average "time" to an alien is about the same. Especially when we brake in a straight line then there is little to no difference, only corner entry braking, and that is marginal.

Tracking my progress it be came all to apparent where my time goes, not braking, and if you argue that point then it accounts for very small incremental gains.

So if not braking where did you loose time? In inquiry mind wants to know

THE end

 

[Kek700]

You do not need motec, would be nice, but not overly important.
Just use the time, does it for everyone on your replay.

Brake is not done other than application.

Car speed is completely wrong, so you cannot use that.

Throttle appears to have been done in the replay????


All you have is incremental lap time down to hundredths of a second.
Now if that is flawed, then it has fooled me.

I can quite clearly see the reason for time loss, so I have managed to get the brake thing out of my head.
It is up to you to find out.
It is the hard work of investigation that is rewarding, I have provided you with everything you need to find out.

For me it is the difficulty of application, I have given you another clue

Tell me how you get on.

 

[Kek700]

@Captain Condescending

Watched the video???

Would you mind telling me what front and rear wing you were running Joseph.

I have a reason for asking as I am now unfortunately over involved with a car I dislike intensely.

I am not interested in your settings I have mine setup perfectly for me. It is because of the spin, that is what interests me.

 

[H_Belane]

@Captain Condescending

Watched the video???

Would you mind telling me what front and rear wing you were running Joseph.

I have a reason for asking as I am now unfortunately over involved with a car I dislike intensely.

I am not interested in your settings I have mine setup perfectly for me. It is because of the spin, that is what interests me.

You can do it Ernie. The things drive similarly to the RSS GT3, except for the braking. Use Jason's Not Safe Setup and change the wings. It works for me. And I know you can do it too.

 

[Captain Condescending]

@Captain Condescending

Watched the video???

Would you mind telling me what front and rear wing you were running Joseph.

I have a reason for asking as I am now unfortunately over involved with a car I dislike intensely.

I am not interested in your settings I have mine setup perfectly for me. It is because of the spin, that is what interests me.

My setup's linked somewhere in this thread - can't really remember the settings I used.

 

[KFMaster]

My setup's linked somewhere in this thread - can't really remember the settings I used.

I happen to be looking at Joe's setup that he shared...

 

[cerebralvortex]

I happen to be looking at Joe's setup that he shared...
View attachment 744518

14 rear wing? Wot! I had 18 rear wing.. that explains how he gained so much on me after the hairpin, which was not a good exit from me but still.

See you at the front next time Ernie with your newly found wisdom Not that I'm an alien, I'm not.

 

[thom462]

I have the same problem with the replay and I don't drive with VR.

I have the same problem with the replay and I don't drive with VR.

This error is indeed strange. As I mentioned never had this before. Will have to look at this further to get it fixed.

 

[Kek700]

Unfortunately Laurent I am far to old for this thing, my reaction are way off, but i am intrigued by it.
I was fascinated by Joseph spin, and had a thought it was the aero, but that was incorrect.
It happened a lot with me until i dialled out the front wing and after looking into i can see the problem.

Eventually i moved the brake bias more to the front and took a lot of wing out of the front.
Because I run it low on the front, i was at end of the DRS zone running a lot of uneven downforce on the front and with my brake balance to much to the rear the car was copying Joseph spin.
I was at front 12 and rear 8, yes I noticed your wing configuration when i was behind you in Qualifying.
i still cannot see the reason for joseph spin but maybe a rear tyre locked, that is my best shot at the reason. Joseph certainly did nothing wrong. but he is very heavily on the brake on corner entry.

i find the more difficult a car is for me the more i am interested in it but not so keen to race it.

 

[cerebralvortex]

I think what happened to Joseph is that he went a bit too hot into the corner, had to apply more steering lock which put the downforce on the fronts and combined with the late brakes the rear just went round. Quite logical I think.. it is a fine line on the edge of grip.

Hearing these wing settings my setup (from australia) just sucked for Suzuka. Happy to have made it to P2

 

[KFMaster]

Anyone saw this side by side comparison of the qual lap between Max and Sergio? Max vs Sergio
Amazing how closely they drove throughout the lap, until the chicane entry where Max basically just out braked Chico to take pole position. Where Sergio was strong was driving out of the slow corner where he gained time out of the slow corners both out of the hairpin and the chicane.

 

[KFMaster]

You do not need motec, would be nice, but not overly important.
Just use the time, does it for everyone on your replay.

I think I already know what my problem is (the end result that is):
- I carry slower speed through corner
- I don't rotate as much as I need
- I don't accelerated out as fast

For me it is the difficulty of application, I have given you another clue

Tell me how you get on.

I was hoping to hear some additional insight, but your email was a bit like a riddle
But "difficulty of application" is a good, but unfortunately, too unspecific a description of the problem.
To be specific for my own driving analysis, as to why I have the problems:
- I carry slower speed through corner -- I don't have sufficiently sensitivity for trail braking. This one is really hard to figure out without telemetry. Nearly 100% of my improvement in this area came from Carsten sharing his telemetry with me and his coaching.
- I don't rotate as much as I need -- I don't have sufficiently skilled coordination of trail braking and tighten of steering. This is a tricky combination of trail braking, engine braking (how quickly I shift down through the gears), and tightening up the steering.
- I don't accelerated out as fast -- I don't have sufficiently skilled coordination of squeezing the trollte and letting out of steering. If letting out steering too fast relative to throttle application, I ran wide. If the other way, I spun. This one for me has been the hardest to improve on. Most of the gain came from setup changes. For the Suzuki, the last setup Joe shared got me about 0.2 seconds out of the hairpin over just about 200m. It actually gain me 0.6 seconds over the whole lap, but I found this out only during post race practice as I joined the race to too and did't get to try it before the race

Would love hear any insight on my self analysis, if I am onto some thing or just taking myself down to a wrong path

 

[gearwhine]

Personally, i find the car quite complex and i need a different setup for each track. The more tracks we use the easier it is to borrow and adapt to a specific track. Also we all like different setups therefore i prefer to configure my own, which for this car needs a lot of input and time to get right (for me). Make no mistake, i am running solid mid field so far only because i have spent the time to make the car work safely for me. There is only one vice on this car, keeping the back from letting go. Tame that without turning it into a brick is the aim i think. It does take me a lot of time to fix which i know is not always available.
Dai, i watched the vid of your view after the race because you were behind me and i wanted to try to find where we were apart and noticed you were quicker through the first part of the esses but not the latter which maybe was because your diff was tighter than mine and also i saw you were using a lower gear than myself on two of the tightest turns which maybe was to compensate for the car not wanting to turn? I also noticed your top gear was very tall and that was losing you some straight line speed maybe. Overall, there was very little difference between our times though, so widely apposed setups probably are not faster but maybe some are safer than others?
Anyway, i really like the car and in my opinion it is probably the best rendition of a F3 car out there and i am enjoying the battle of making my average driving skills work for me with the car.
Am looking forward to the next round

 

[maxilogan]

Thanks for organizing. I still had some white cars and I downloaded the pack again before joining the server.. ?

Yep, me too. Curiously enough, all the midfield was white

 

[Kek700]

think I already know what my problem is (the end result that is):
- I carry slower speed through corner
- I don't rotate as much as I need
- I don't accelerated out as fast

I am sorry for the riddle, I had not known you actually put effort into this, sometimes it is annoying that some want a one syllable answer and immediate results.

You seem to have a better understanding than I do, I tend to look at the reality and not to much the science.
.
We are not as that idiot James Hunt said, we are all born equal, so I try and use knowledge and a wee bit of science and hope to bridge some of the gap. ( that is why setups are mostly important to me, my worst night mare are cars with limited setup options )

One final thing is that I find this F3 car exaggerates all my short comings, so I find it more difficult to find ways of compensating in this cr. I am not saying it doesn’t in other cars, it is just more brutal in the way it tells me.

I think what happened to Joseph is that he went a bit too hot into the corner, had to apply more steering lock which put the downforce on the fronts and combined with the late brakes the rear just went round. Quite logical I think.. it is a fine line on the edge of grip.

Hearing these wing settings my setup (from australia) just sucked for Suzuka. Happy to have made it to P2

The only reason I took an interest with Joseph was that for this particular corner there was a stable front and rear wing stability relative to straight line acceleration and speed.
You could mitigate that with a lot of rear wing and or relatively reduced front wing. In the end I found that 12 front and 8 rear was the optimal. That meant I could actually force the corner and not get into terminal oversteer territory . And when I compared the timings I never actually lost out time wise to the faster drivers. ( but I do run it low on the front so I get down force from that )
Because I am shite on the brakes, I tend to bleed speed off rather than heavy perfectly timed braking, so that may have a bearing on it all. ( I am saying that relative to 1.7 second in the lap )

On one corner you brake 50 meters later than I do, but it actually does not effect the overall time.
I lose out on mid corner speed , corner perspective and acceleration out of a corner.

This could all be incorrect as when I get a bee in my bonnet , I’m off , so maybe if I was working with some others they could hopefully point out “politely” my conversation was shite.
In my defence the maths actually aided my conversation on this topic.
.


-

 

[Captain Condescending]

Unfortunately Laurent I am far to old for this thing, my reaction are way off, but i am intrigued by it.
I was fascinated by Joseph spin, and had a thought it was the aero, but that was incorrect.
It happened a lot with me until i dialled out the front wing and after looking into i can see the problem.

Eventually i moved the brake bias more to the front and took a lot of wing out of the front.
Because I run it low on the front, i was at end of the DRS zone running a lot of uneven downforce on the front and with my brake balance to much to the rear the car was copying Joseph spin.
I was at front 12 and rear 8, yes I noticed your wing configuration when i was behind you in Qualifying.
i still cannot see the reason for joseph spin but maybe a rear tyre locked, that is my best shot at the reason. Joseph certainly did nothing wrong. but he is very heavily on the brake on corner entry.

i find the more difficult a car is for me the more i am interested in it but not so keen to race it.

I spun because of a stutter and having my BB 0.5% further rearward* than I expected so I just messed up. Setup changes for it are probably a bit more work on suspension needed - I did very little work so I bet the ride heights are all wrong and on the brakes it's probably got too much rake and the rear floor is losing efficiency. Just a guess though.

 

[Kek700]

Sounds about right to me Joseph.
I know that the F3 in that corner can be some what touchy.
Thanks for the update

 

[KFMaster]

...
Dai, i watched the vid of your view after the race because you were behind me and i wanted to try to find where we were apart and noticed you were quicker through the first part of the esses but not the latter which maybe was because your diff was tighter than mine and also i saw you were using a lower gear than myself on two of the tightest turns which maybe was to compensate for the car not wanting to turn? I also noticed your top gear was very tall and that was losing you some straight line speed maybe. Overall, there was very little difference between our times though, so widely apposed setups probably are not faster but maybe some are safer than others?

I think I was slower in the latter part of the esses for two reasons: I was practicing against the AI drivers who are notorious slow in the second part. This led me to think I was doing ok in that section so didn't really work on the line trough there. I came to realize that in the race, but didn't want to try anything different in a race. Second is that I used a very high down force setup pretty much max wings front and rear.
Indeed, I used 2nd out both the hairpin and the chicane and 3rd out of the spoon. I helped me with better rotation into the corner and also accelerating out it. If I try a higher gear, I feel bogged down on exit and can see I was losing time.

Anyway, i really like the car and in my opinion it is probably the best rendition of a F3 car out there and i am enjoying the battle of making my average driving skills work for me with the car.
Am looking forward to the next round

Agree, I love this car, just great fun to drive.