Misc RasmusP's LUTs for G27/29 and DFGT 2.0

[RasmusP]

Thanks for the feedback!

I have tested it yesterday with a g923, the experimental has that touch that hits you when it "goes away", in my humble opinion I think it would only miss more feeling of the track, in everything else is perfect, finally a little more hardness of medium speeds, I am looking for that feeling like the ACCompetizione with the TRUEFORCE, I don't know what it has but makes me feel "all"... since the purchase of the g923 was to avoid a greater expense if I got bored, but no!, I think I'll go for a direct drive later... but this wheel are perfect for beginners...

You mean the "stronger" one feels better?
It makes the wheel seem stronger than it is. AC (and afaik all sims) don't really simulate power steering. They just take what the physics calculate and put that out as ffb.
So if you're used to cars with power steering, you miss this super tight feeling in a straight line and right from the start when turning.
But it won't get super strong, since the power steering helps you.

I sadly don't have access to a G923 so I have no idea what Trueforce does, but very happy that Logitech seems to have found a way to make their wheelbase feel nice, if games support it!

Also ...The g923 has ZERO deadzone.... and the difference is noticeable (my friend has a g29).

Only with Trueforce in acc or even without any lut and 0% minimum force in AC?

If you don't feel any dead zone without a lut and with 0% minimum force, then I would recommend to delete the LUT and instead use the "range compression" from csp - ffb tweaks at around 300%.

It's a bit like power steering and way more intelligent than my "experimental" lut for the G923!

 

[TheBoringDuck]

What wheel do you have exactly?
This sounds like the overall ffb strength in the wheel software got raised.
With the g25/27 and dfgt you have the old profiler with the overall strength slider.
That slider should NEVER be at more than 100%.

With g29/920/923 you have the new software or g-hub and I'm not sure if there is such a setting.
I know you have "sensitivity", which needs to be at 50%.

Other possible reasons could be the minimum force setting being higher than 0% or your rotation degrees being lower than 900°.

There's also this "experimental" automatic hard lock setting in content manager, which automatically changes the rotation degrees in your wheel. That needs to be DISABLED!

Sorry for late response. I have all those settings correct with a G920, it just randomly started happening one day. I might’ve heard a loud harsh click in the wheel while using it shortly before this started happening, so I might end up seeing if warranty will do anything if I can’t end up fixing this. It shakes incredibly violently only while I’m stopped, and it feels weaker when moving than it used to.

 

[RasmusP]

Sorry for late response. I have all those settings correct with a G920, it just randomly started happening one day. I might’ve heard a loud harsh click in the wheel while using it shortly before this started happening, so I might end up seeing if warranty will do anything if I can’t end up fixing this. It shakes incredibly violently only while I’m stopped, and it feels weaker when moving than it used to.

That doesn't sound great...

Just to be sure:
Close ac and cm, then:
Copy the full documents/assetto corsa/cfg to a different place.

This will trigger ac to copy the standard configuration that backed up in the steam folder to load.

This way no lut, no min force, no nothing will be there that could cause that behavior.

Start cm, check in the controls setting that everything looks like defaults and then go on track and see if it's still shaking.

 

[TheBoringDuck]

That doesn't sound great...

Just to be sure:
Close ac and cm, then:
Copy the full documents/assetto corsa/cfg to a different place.

This will trigger ac to copy the standard configuration that backed up in the steam folder to load.

This way no lut, no min force, no nothing will be there that could cause that behavior.

Start cm, check in the controls setting that everything looks like defaults and then go on track and see if it's still shaking.

Just tried this, still shakes violently but only while I'm not moving. I feel it shouldn't even be trying to do anything when the car is still?

 

[RasmusP]

Just tried this, still shakes violently but only while I'm not moving. I feel it shouldn't even be trying to do anything when the car is still?

Is it doing the same thing in all games?
If not, it's AC!

Oh wait, there's one setting that might influence this:
This is the default and my CM:

If the ffb isn't reduced to 0-1% towards 0 speed, then the ffb will go crazy.
The physics engine can't handle standing still so all equations go through the roof...

Apart from that it can only be the first line of a LUT. Nothing else
You'r ffb post processing looks like this in CM?

 

[TheBoringDuck]

Is it doing the same thing in all games?
If not, it's AC!

Oh wait, there's one setting that might influence this:
This is the default and my CM:
View attachment 570851

If the ffb isn't reduced to 0-1% towards 0 speed, then the ffb will go crazy.
The physics engine can't handle standing still so all equations go through the roof...

Apart from that it can only be the first line of a LUT. Nothing else
You'r ffb post processing looks like this in CM?
View attachment 570852

Sorry for the late responses, been at work and school all day.

It doesn't really happen in other games as far as I can tell, and all my ffb settings look like that. Still goes ham while I'm not moving. Sorry I don't know too much about all this, just trying to have fun on sims lol. Any other ideas?

 

[RasmusP]

Sorry for the late responses, been at work and school all day.

It doesn't really happen in other games as far as I can tell, and all my ffb settings look like that. Still goes ham while I'm not moving. Sorry I don't know too much about all this, just trying to have fun on sims lol. Any other ideas?

I'm running out of ideas, sadly..
But if it's only AC, then it's not your wheel!

My next suggestion would be:
- copy the C:\user\YourUserName\Documents\Assetto Corsa folder to somewhere as a backup
- delete the folder
- run AC, all your settings should be at default now
- configure your wheel via content manager
- disable CSP competely:

- Go on track in practice mode with a Kunos car and Kunos track like the BMW M3 E30 + Spa or Monza

- check if the issue is still there?

 

[PiotrGT]

@TheBoringDuck , just in case you're still looking for a fix - there was an issue with G920 shaking when not moving because Logitech messed up the drivers. It has been fixed recently with a new GHUB version and should work fine now.

 

[knightdesser]

Hello, I have another question about my ffb. G27

I feel there's is no ffb during counter steer. My countersteer snapped in some point in the rotation. I followed your FFB Tweaks at control.ini. The dead zone minimize after I use your setting, but I feel there's still a bit of dead zone make my countersteer snapped. Is it normal?

 

[RasmusP]

Hello, I have another question about my ffb. G27

I feel there's is no ffb during counter steer. My countersteer snapped in some point in the rotation. I followed your FFB Tweaks at control.ini. The dead zone minimize after I use your setting, but I feel there's still a bit of dead zone make my countersteer snapped. Is it normal?

Hi,
I'm a bit confused...

"ffb tweaks" is the extension in CSP

controls.ini contains:
- min force (same as the slider in content manager)
- center_boost_gain
- center_boost_range

They are also available in Content Manager and should simply all be 0. Although the "range" is inactive, when the gain is 0.

About the counter steer "snapping":
I don't really understand what you mean with this, sorry.

Things you could mean:
- When holding a steady drift, the steering wheel will be very light with barely any ffb. That's because your rear is sliding, while the front wheels still have grip and are "rolling" without much G-force.

- the "More physically accurate gyro implementation" from CSP ffb tweaks dampens the front wheels, when they "self align". During a steady drift, the front wheels are just "rolling" like I said, so they "self align" and the gyro dampens the steering.
Maybe you like it better when disabling the gyro?

 

[knightdesser]

About the counter steer "snapping":
I don't really understand what you mean with this, sorry.

Things you could mean:
- When holding a steady drift, the steering wheel will be very light with barely any ffb. That's because your rear is sliding, while the front wheels still have grip and are "rolling" without much G-force.

I don't know how to explain but yeah I think you got what I mean.

I never thought of that I need to gain some muscle memory on drift transition so I'm not going to disable gyro. My FFB is now perfect with your setting.

Thank you for the explanation

 

[RasmusP]

I don't know how to explain but yeah I think you got what I mean.

I never thought of that I need to gain some muscle memory on drift transition so I'm not going to disable gyro. My FFB is now perfect with your setting.

Thank you for the explanation

Yeah it's a bit tricky and I never found a good animation for how drifting works.
(showing the car from above, transparent, seeing the front wheels, the steering wheel and the rear wheels at the same time.
Then showing normal cornering vs drifting)

But it's important to know that when you start the drift, you turn a little bit in to give the direction (left/right) and then you can basically take your hands from the steering wheel and control the drift with the right foot!

The front tyres will stay in almost the same position, rolling straight.
But the rest of the car rotates around the front tyres, because the rear is sliding.

The important thing here is to know:
The position of the steering wheel is not where the front tyres point at.
The steering wheel is just the difference between the chassis of the car and the front tyres!

So when the front tyres are straight but you turn the chassis 45°, the steering wheel will have the same position like when the chassis would be straight and the front tyres turn 45°.

When driving normally, the front tyres will be the same as the direction of the car.

When drifting, it's not.

The force feedback however comes from the resistance of the front tyres against cornering.
And when driving normally, the ffb becomes stronger, the more you're turning the steering wheel and the more cornering happens.

But when drifting in a straight line, the front tyres are simply rolling in a straight line.
So there is no ffb!

It's just a bit weird because you can drift in a straight line with the steering wheel at the maximum rotation.
But the front wheels are only rolling in a straight line, so there is no ffb.

 

[knightdesser]

Yeah it's a bit tricky and I never found a good animation for how drifting works.
(showing the car from above, transparent, seeing the front wheels, the steering wheel and the rear wheels at the same time.
Then showing normal cornering vs drifting)

But it's important to know that when you start the drift, you turn a little bit in to give the direction (left/right) and then you can basically take your hands from the steering wheel and control the drift with the right foot!

The front tyres will stay in almost the same position, rolling straight.
But the rest of the car rotates around the front tyres, because the rear is sliding.

The important thing here is to know:
The position of the steering wheel is not where the front tyres point at.
The steering wheel is just the difference between the chassis of the car and the front tyres!

So when the front tyres are straight but you turn the chassis 45°, the steering wheel will have the same position like when the chassis would be straight and the front tyres turn 45°.

When driving normally, the front tyres will be the same as the direction of the car.

When drifting, it's not.

The force feedback however comes from the resistance of the front tyres against cornering.
And when driving normally, the ffb becomes stronger, the more you're turning the steering wheel and the more cornering happens.

But when drifting in a straight line, the front tyres are simply rolling in a straight line.
So there is no ffb!

It's just a bit weird because you can drift in a straight line with the steering wheel at the maximum rotation.
But the front wheels are only rolling in a straight line, so there is no ffb.

That's very detailed explanation. Thank you so much for the tips. So 0 ffb is where you start the transition or where you hold your drift am I right?

I just activated my FFBclip so I'll try learning with it too. Would u suggest on how do I find the sweet spot for the FFB strength?

 

[RasmusP]

So 0 ffb is where you start the transition or where you hold your drift am I right?

Holding the drift, yeah.
Starting the transition should make the wheel rotate on its own. The rotation is the ffb turning the wheel.

I just activated my FFBclip so I'll try learning with it too. Would u suggest on how do I find the sweet spot for the FFB strength?

I would recommend uninstalling ffbclip
The sweetspot is where you have no dead zone, but also no shaking when driving in a straight line.
It's slightly different for every car and ffbclip can't measure that.

Also some clipping is not bad.
Clipping does NOT mean, that your wheel will shake and rattle like when driving over a kerb.

FFB contains 2 things:
1. Direction (left/right)
2. Strength

Clipping means that the strength is locked at 100%.
You still have the direction though!

Example:
Being at the grip limit in a right turn without clipping, the tyre working dynamically at the limit:
Left, 95% (against your hands turning right)
L, 98%
L, 60%
L, 70%
L, 90%

Now with clipping (+20% gain):
L, 100% (118)
L, 80%
L, 90%
L, 100% (110)

You see, it's not like your ffb would transform like a distorted, clipping microphone audio.
You still get the same information. But you lose a bit of the dynamic and when very close to the limit, you might not feel when the tyres start to lose grip.
Example, turning further and further until the car starts to slide:
L, 80%
L, 90%
L, 95%
L, 80% (losing grip!)

With +20% gain, clipping:
L, 100%
L, 100%
L, 100%
L, 100% (losing grip)
L, 90% (losing even more grip, maybe spinning out)

Soundwaves and ffb are very different!
So clipping might reduce your feeling for the limit of the tyres, but it won't do anything else and it won't create rattling or vibrations!

With weaker ffb wheels like the Logitech wheels, you need a little bit clipping anyway. Because otherwise, the average ffb strength will be so low, that your hands can't feel what the car is doing.

With a Logitech wheel you can't feel the difference between 20% and 30% ffb.
Both ffb levels are "some weak force".
You can only feel differences like 30% to 70%.

So with a weaker wheel like Logitech, you sacrifice the feeling for the grip limit (clipping) to be able to feel everything else.

Without clipping, you can feel the grip limit, but you will miss your turn in points etc because you won't feel enough at the lower ffb levels.



FFB tweaks' "range compression" helps a lot with this. It compresses higher ffb levels and boosts lower ffb levels.
So you will lose a bit of dynamic in general, but you will feel the limit because there's no clipping and also feel the turn in points etc.

Basically, ffb tweaks' range compression would change this:
10% (not feelable)
30%
50%
80%
90%
100%
120% (clipping)

To this:
30% (+20)
45% (+15)
50% (+/-0)
75% (-5)
80% (-10)
85% (-15)
95% (-25)


When using Range Compression, you need to lower the gain a little bit. When you have no deadzone and no shaking while driving straight, it's perfect.

 

[knightdesser]

I would recommend uninstalling ffbclip
The sweetspot is where you have no dead zone, but also no shaking when driving in a straight line.
It's slightly different for every car and ffbclip can't measure that.

Also some clipping is not bad.
Clipping does NOT mean, that your wheel will shake and rattle like when driving over a kerb.

FFB contains 2 things:
1. Direction (left/right)
2. Strength

Clipping means that the strength is locked at 100%.
You still have the direction though!

Example:
Being at the grip limit in a right turn without clipping, the tyre working dynamically at the limit:
Left, 95% (against your hands turning right)
L, 98%
L, 60%
L, 70%
L, 90%

Now with clipping (+20% gain):
L, 100% (118)
L, 80%
L, 90%
L, 100% (110)


View attachment 575925

View attachment 575926


You see, it's not like your ffb would transform like a distorted, clipping microphone audio.
You still get the same information. But you lose a bit of the dynamic and when very close to the limit, you might not feel when the tyres start to lose grip.
Example, turning further and further until the car starts to slide:
L, 80%
L, 90%
L, 95%
L, 80% (losing grip!)

With +20% gain, clipping:
L, 100%
L, 100%
L, 100%
L, 100% (losing grip)
L, 90% (losing even more grip, maybe spinning out)

Soundwaves and ffb are very different!
So clipping might reduce your feeling for the limit of the tyres, but it won't do anything else and it won't create rattling or vibrations!

With weaker ffb wheels like the Logitech wheels, you need a little bit clipping anyway. Because otherwise, the average ffb strength will be so low, that your hands can't feel what the car is doing.

With a Logitech wheel you can't feel the difference between 20% and 30% ffb.
Both ffb levels are "some weak force".
You can only feel differences like 30% to 70%.

So with a weaker wheel like Logitech, you sacrifice the feeling for the grip limit (clipping) to be able to feel everything else.

Without clipping, you can feel the grip limit, but you will miss your turn in points etc because you won't feel enough at the lower ffb levels.



FFB tweaks' "range compression" helps a lot with this. It compresses higher ffb levels and boosts lower ffb levels.
So you will lose a bit of dynamic in general, but you will feel the limit because there's no clipping and also feel the turn in points etc.

Basically, ffb tweaks' range compression would change this:
10% (not feelable)
30%
50%
80%
90%
100%
120% (clipping)

To this:
30% (+20)
45% (+15)
50% (+/-0)
75% (-5)
80% (-10)
85% (-15)
95% (-25)


When using Range Compression, you need to lower the gain a little bit. When you have no deadzone and no shaking while driving straight, it's perfect.

Thank you so much. Your information are very detail, you put so much effort on helping me to improve myself. I don't know how to repay you. But now I understand how does the grip work on the force feedback and how do I set up my FFB strength. My G27 are not fast enough on the return rate, but when I help it to rotate, I know how much force I need to apply. I hope you have good karma for your kindness, thank you so much. I really appreciate it

 

[RasmusP]

It's good training to explain things that are in my head but aren't really described anywhere, so I can explain them quicker and better the next time!
Glad that it helps

My G27 are not fast enough on the return rate, but when I help it to rotate, I know how much force I need to apply.

Yeah that's sadly one of the issues with Logitech wheels or Thrustmaster wheels below the T300.

I was blown away by my Fanatec CSW 2.5 when I bought it after 4 years with my G27.
When trying drifting for the first time with it, I had to grab the wheel to slow it down. Otherwise the car would catch the start of a slide on its own. That was pretty crazy!

But that's why learning to drift with a Logitech wheels is difficult when using the full 900° rotation. You have to "throw" the wheel into drifts and out of them.
With only 600° rotation, this gets a lot easier. But it's not as much fun as throwing the wheel around and letting it rotate on its own when doing transitions

 

[knightdesser]

It's good training to explain things that are in my head but aren't really described anywhere, so I can explain them quicker and better the next time!
Glad that it helps


Yeah that's sadly one of the issues with Logitech wheels or Thrustmaster wheels below the T300.

I was blown away by my Fanatec CSW 2.5 when I bought it after 4 years with my G27.
When trying drifting for the first time with it, I had to grab the wheel to slow it down. Otherwise the car would catch the start of a slide on its own. That was pretty crazy!

But that's why learning to drift with a Logitech wheels is difficult when using the full 900° rotation. You have to "throw" the wheel into drifts and out of them.
With only 600° rotation, this gets a lot easier. But it's not as much fun as throwing the wheel around and letting it rotate on its own when doing transitions

Even though you are not using g27 anymore, you still help people who are using the wheel. Your information are very detail so you make people easy to understand.

I might want to upgrade in future, what would you recommend? Might be a cheaper one or any of your suggestion. Is t500, t300 good?

 

[RasmusP]

I might want to upgrade in future, what would you recommend? Might be a cheaper one or any of your suggestion. Is t500, t300 good?

T500 was good, but it's old and not sold since 5 years or so.

T300 is a good wheel but it has quite a loud cooling fan, which can be weird when you had a passively cooled Logitech wheel before...
It's not super quick, but it's good enough and should be a step up from your Logitech!
It won't rattle like the Logitech wheels when going over kerbs, but the cooling fan and the belt drive are not quiet.

TS-PC would be a great option. Cooling is way better, it's stronger and quicker.
Good quality wheelbase!
When I had one for 2 weeks, I had some coil whine. But I never heard someone else complaining about coil whine so maybe I was unlucky.
I enjoyed driving with that wheelbase!!
It's not cheap though...

Fanatec would be a step up, but they seem to have some quality issues with the csl DD.
The older csl elite wheelbase also had some issues.
The csw 2.0 had too much damping that you can't adjust.
The csw 2.5 got new motor electronics that allows to reduce the damping, making the wheel very quick if you want.
I'm really happy with my csw 2.5 since 3 years now.
Cooling is very quiet if you don't run it at full power all the time and the belt drive is completely silent and very smooth.

So I would recommend:
T300, ts-pc or used csw 2.5.

Depending on your budget.

 

[knightdesser]

T500 was good, but it's old and not sold since 5 years or so.

T300 is a good wheel but it has quite a loud cooling fan, which can be weird when you had a passively cooled Logitech wheel before...
It's not super quick, but it's good enough and should be a step up from your Logitech!
It won't rattle like the Logitech wheels when going over kerbs, but the cooling fan and the belt drive are not quiet.

TS-PC would be a great option. Cooling is way better, it's stronger and quicker.
Good quality wheelbase!
When I had one for 2 weeks, I had some coil whine. But I never heard someone else complaining about coil whine so maybe I was unlucky.
I enjoyed driving with that wheelbase!!
It's not cheap though...

Fanatec would be a step up, but they seem to have some quality issues with the csl DD.
The older csl elite wheelbase also had some issues.
The csw 2.0 had too much damping that you can't adjust.
The csw 2.5 got new motor electronics that allows to reduce the damping, making the wheel very quick if you want.
I'm really happy with my csw 2.5 since 3 years now.
Cooling is very quiet if you don't run it at full power all the time and the belt drive is completely silent and very smooth.

So I would recommend:
T300, ts-pc or used csw 2.5.

Depending on your budget.

Thank you, I will definitely put those in my wish list but fanatec doesn't have a lot of stock and pricey, there is few on budget but almost all of it are sold out. But I'm gonna stick with g27 at the moment since the ffb feels a bit better now, I'm gaining muscle memory for the ffb and getting better on my lap time.

Thank you and have a nice day

 

[aurichio]

Sorry for late response. I have all those settings correct with a G920, it just randomly started happening one day. I might’ve heard a loud harsh click in the wheel while using it shortly before this started happening, so I might end up seeing if warranty will do anything if I can’t end up fixing this. It shakes incredibly violently only while I’m stopped, and it feels weaker when moving than it used to.

hey, friend. If you are using GHub I'd recommend updating it. The last update a week or two ago fixed this issue with the g920. I was also facing it and it was SUPER annoying.