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Cars Porsche GT3 Cup Circuit & Hillclimb 1.2b

Porsche GT3 Cup with detailed aero.

  1. rpmmod

    rpmmod

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  2. Rossotech

    Rossotech

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    So is this something not worth taking video of? :thumbsdown: Real life footage doesn't really show anything?
     
  3. rpmmod

    rpmmod

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    I have lots of things to do but maybe for in game video. You can post yours.
     
  4. Giblets

    Giblets

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    Update
    I like how there is lots of front end grip but hasn't lost the fact that if you push it too far you understeer into a fence.
    Same with the rear you can feel the downforce and weight through the wheel nicely also noting that there is no floaty feel through the wheel just pure direct feel.

    Such a joy to drive many thanks.
     
  5. rpmmod

    rpmmod

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    Thanks for the feedback.
    AC have good engine, this car have good suspension, but not good aero. The over simplified aero of all the AC cars are linked to console limitations,
    In addition to being unable to be realistic in both tight turns and in fast turns, these simplified aero oblige the modders to reduce the inertia (as if all the weight was in the center of the car).

    There is "only" to detail the aero and widen the inertia to have more realistic cars.

    Remains to be seen if it is the good inertia and the good distribution of downforce, for that I need feedback from people who like réalism.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
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  6. mclarenf1papa

    mclarenf1papa

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    "constructive criticism is always welcome"
    Evidently not :roflmao:

    The Mr. Deap of modding...
     
  7. rpmmod

    rpmmod

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    You said my method was wrong without justifying why. You think it's constructive ?
    I don't know who is Mr deap, and I do not care. You should rather ask yourself who you are.

    So what do you think of the C9?

    And your method that you spoke, with five wing, when can we see the result? I'm so impatient to see that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  8. mclarenf1papa

    mclarenf1papa

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    I justified it multiple times - you're adding computational complexity for mathematical equivalence in a way that logically doesn't even make sense. I'm fairly sure the IER FLM09 uses 3 wings to good effect:

    FLM09_Telemetry_1.png

    Additionally, inertia is actually too high on most Kunos cars, not too low as you claim (and that's something that's inarguable because it's effectively measurable, unlike transient aerodynamics).
     
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  9. rpmmod

    rpmmod

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    Yes it's right with 3 wings it's better, because F1 papa say it. Thanks for the help.
    For inertia : "that's inarguable" you have the data? a link?
    You do not have a car to finish?

    edit : as soon as I criticize AC F1 papa comes running.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
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  10. rpmmod

    rpmmod

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  11. mclarenf1papa

    mclarenf1papa

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    Nearly all of the GT race cars, all of the LMP cars, etc. Data is proprietary...

    As far as the Kunos Porsche Cup goes, the suspension is completely wrong among other issues.
     
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  12. AccAkut

    AccAkut
    Premium

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    you know you're talking to a guy who next to AC car mods (with team data backing) has worked on real race cars? Even disregarding that, what prove do YOU have that adding 27 wings to a car makes it better? Wheres your data?
    Before you ask I had a nice guy do this with one of my cars:
    [​IMG]
    End result was three wing elements, front, rear, and body
     
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  13. Kyuubeey

    Kyuubeey

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    Kunos put in like 4.6m of length into the AE86. I set it closer to 3.5m. :roflmao:

    I'm not sure how KS determines their inertia, but I think it's to counteract most of their suspensions'/tires' tendency to rotate initially.

    Entirely false that the wing method is due to console limitations. Extra wings numbering in the 10's don't really impact realtime performance enough to consider needing optimization, not on my old potato at least.

    The reason you don't need more than 3 wings for a car without adjustability is because with basic data you can get it right in most of the operational envelope. The only reason I do more than 3 wings for some of my cars is A: Adjustability and B: I add on a part like an undertray, or canards or something, and because of the aforementioned lack of performance hit, I can sensibly add a few more wings if I want to while retaining the characteristic of the old wings which can be easily tweaked if need be. In the end all it is, is a tire load simulator, so as long as it's computationally right, you can use 3, or 4, or 10.

    Bold of you to claim the KS suspension is good.
     
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  14. rpmmod

    rpmmod

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    mclarenf1papa: So for inertia you don't even have an example of a car that you think has too low inertia.
    For suspension when I say good I want to say the car have grip on tight turn and on bumb, I have not said true.


    AccAkut : I know i'm talking to a guy who next to AC car mods (with team data backing) has worked on real race cars, etc...
    It does not excuse him from arguing and giving evidence when he says "that's inarguable".

    Why are you so aggressive as a cop with a very suspicious person after a crime, ("what prove do YOU have that adding 27 wings to a car makes it better? Wheres your data?")

    What is the crime? doing the same car as mclarenf1papa?

    I don't have proof, people try and make their own opinion.
    For the data it's like for the C9 : for the source I found lots of images and videos of fluid analysis software (like stallion 3D whith HIST or Autodesk Flow Design), the CL and CD is the same as the original.

    "Before you ask" I did not want to criticize this car, but I think the aero is its weak point, it is sad because everything else is really great.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
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  15. Kyuubeey

    Kyuubeey

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    rpm, how many years have you been doing mods, or perhaps professional sim physics work? How many years have you worked in any kind of engineering industry? Perhaps it will provide some context.
     
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  16. rpmmod

    rpmmod

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    Kyuubeey : I think the AE86 was not a priority for Kunos, I think to low lateral and vertical inertia is generally related to over simplified aero.
    Wings charges CPU it's clear, try to put 20 of my C9 on a track and come back.

    And for the context :
    When the wise man points to the moon, the idiot looks at his finger.
    I don't have professional experience but I spent many time to learn (at the moment I'm unemployed), people try my cars and make their own opinion on cars.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
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  17. Kyuubeey

    Kyuubeey

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    How many years? I've been at it for some 8 years.

    Aero simulation really isn't about opinions. At least to a very large degree. No one here knows anything about how these cars drive. In fact any opinion you get on how it feels is completely worthless. We can only consider the computational accuracy based on what we know about the characteristics.

    Inertia has almost nothing to do with aero. Not sure how you made that distinction.
     
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  18. rpmmod

    rpmmod

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    What not to hear, you're ready to say anything to try to discredit me. You drove all the cars you do?

    edit : stop taking people for dumb the difference is easily visible.

    Inertia has to do with road held, less vertical and lateral inertia = car easier to drive, more grip.
    It's to compensate the bad road held of over simplified aero.
    Low inertia is also for compensate no lateral drag on your and kunos simple aero.
    And since there is no wings by side under the car (your suggestion) it does not matter if the car does not leans (incline) a lot in the turns.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
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  19. Kyuubeey

    Kyuubeey

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    I don't think you understand. How you achieve the aero doesn't change road holding, or grip or anything. If the balance is computationally the same as with 2 wings, it is.

    There is lateral drag. It's based on yaw angle of the drag wing. The low inertia is low because you can calculate box inertia of masses. There's a bunch of cars where precise data is available, and a bunch of cars where an estimation was made, for example the NSXs, and they are always lower than comparable KS cars. The reason KS cars have high inertia is because, from my finding, they grip up and oversteer too much with initial load shift with the way KS tires handle everything related to it, from relaxation length to load sensitivity. Data-wise it's wrong and going higher is ludacris.

    Sure, you should have height sens for your underbody and low aerofoil wings. You can't make roll sens with KS wings, so your approach will result in a wrong computational result when height and roll both change. What you want is aeromaps, not 30 wings.

    Probably what'd convince you is a side-by-side lap of a well made car with 3 wings and your version, where the pitch sens is the same and balance is the same. You would never see or feel a difference even if you compared 1000 laps.
     
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  20. mclarenf1papa

    mclarenf1papa

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    Because none of them do.
    ...have too high inertia. I don't think there's a single KS car on the "too low" end of the spectrum.

    Inertia has no effect on steady-state grip and often makes cars easier to drive the more of it there is (slower reaction times needed).

    Also, the likely reason that your 20+ wings are killing the CPU is that you don't have height sensitivity LUT files for most of them, which writes to AC's log as an error code for every physics tick (so, 20+ lines of text 333 times a second), creating a log.txt that's GBs in size.

    "I don't have professional experience but I spent many time to learn"
    Then maybe take some time to learn from those with professional experience.
     
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