Porsche 919 Hybrid Evo Smashes Nordschleife Lap Record

[Tbear]

It's time for the 919 to smash the pikes peak-record.

I think now it's time for the Volkswagen to beat the nurburgring record.

 

[NDG]

my bad

 

[SS454]

Yes a modern F1 car could probably beat this laptime, but not my much I would imagine. The biggest issue the F1 car will have is the track surface. All the modern teams that have done demonstration runs here in the past have all said the suspension isn't designed to cope with a bumpy circuit like the Nords. However yes they could probably modify the car to cope.

The track has had a lot of repaving over the last few years and is much smoother than when Nick Heidfeld did his demo run some 10 years ago. I am certain the 919 EVO has more of a ground clearance issue with the side skirts than a modern F1 car. But I would assume the F1 could would still need to crank the ride heights up and run softer springs than they'd want to.

 

[SS454]

If they wanted to do that at the Ring they would need at least a few dozen litres of fuel onboard remember these cars are able to do about 105kg of fuel for 200 miles so about 1.9kg per mile at racing speed so consider that, I cant work out the litres and stuff its a bit of a headache since the fuel density is well not known to me

I'm not really sure what you are saying. An F1 car would need about 20L of fuel to do a lap.

 

[T_rac3]

Well, I'm really glad for Toyota that Porsche didn't go to LeMans this year
And I'm really sorry for us motorsport fans

 

[CeeCee]

An incredible achievement by a very brave driver

This I very much agree, yes the car is very 2018, tyres are amazing but after all that there is an extremely capable driver, someone putting his life on the edge, taking this vehicle through this amazing narrow track at mindblowing speeds. Respect !
I do have to smile at the simmer showing of his prowess, difference if a very small mistake is made, the price is very real.
A masterful drive !

 

[Richard Dastardly]

I'm pretty sure F1 cars race on a street circuit every year... the Nordschleife is bumpy and gets heavily used every day, but every winter they resurface part of it. It's bumpy by *German* road standards, not by the pothole-strewn disasters the rest of us use.

 

[Tibor Solyom]

Huh? I never thought that the poles were of a regulated length (and google doesn't think so either). The key thing with pole vaulting is running fast enough - the kinetic energy from your running speed directly translates into height (potential energy). So I reckon you could give a retired pole vault a ten meter pole and it wouldn't make them jump any higher

I had to read the rulebook earlier... How do I hate if anyone talks about something doesn't know well
OK, so not the best example, but my point was great car, great drive, superb performance, but all in all it's a clever marketing stuff, nothing more.

 

[Patrik Marek]

speed of that thing is uncanny

 

[RobertGracie]

I'm not really sure what you are saying. An F1 car would need about 20L of fuel to do a lap.

Yeah I kinda lost the plot there but still, they need to do it to show F1 is no slouch

 

[Andrew Harper]

I'm pretty sure F1 cars race on a street circuit every year...

Yes that's true but F1 street circuits seem to be super smooth these days. I was hoping Baku would be a traditional street circuit but to my surprise it was like a billiard table!

For example if you look at Indycars and IMSA around somewhere like Long Beach, that to me is a more traditional street circuit.

If you look up the Phoenix Grand Prix from '90 or '91. Not the most popular Grand Prix ever but my goodness you don't realise how smooth street circuits are now until you see Senna working hard at the wheel and bouncing around all over the place. Different times I know but just using it as an example.

 

[Richard Dastardly]

Well, Monaco too. I get your point, even if Le Mans is relatively smooth these days too. I think a modern F1 car could take the punishment, I get the feeling they're a bit too sensitive to be comfortable to drive on bumps, but what do I know, I don't even watch F1 races anymore.

 

[Rene Vos]

I have set up a Nordschleife server for this one
Good luck!


Assetto-Corsa.nl #2 | Tweakers | Nordschleife 919 Tribute

 

[RobertGracie]

To everyone suggesting Monaco, you know that means shutting down the circuit for a few weeks and you know how much chaos that would cause additionally Lowes Hairpin how would you get a car that isnt designed for hairpins around that hairpin?

 

[Will Mazeo]

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Well I doubt they'd beat each other records, both cars would need serious modifications to make it happen, especially the VW since Nurburgring speed is really high and that drain a lot of energy.
Take a look at the ZEOD, there was a motorsport meeting with the Nissan guys, one of them said the car could do a lap with 3l of fuel, but needed the energy from 150kg of battery to do the same running the electric engine alone, even with that low drag design, and it was slower than running the ICE.

 

[Tbear]

Although I LOVE this “you go build a car and I go build a car … now let’s go see which one is fastest” sort of thing, a lot of people think that it doesn’t mean much. We’ve been through this sort of thing before.

Back in 1974, AJ Foyt went to Talladega Superspeedway with a specially prepped Indy car and drove a 217.854 mph lap there to set an “exhibition closed course speed record” and kinda set thing in motion. A year later, Mark Donohue took a specially prepped Can-Am Porsche 9170-30 to the same track and drove a lap at 221.160 mph and claimed a “true closed course record”. At the time, arguments raged in the car magazines whether or not it meant anything … or even if something called a “true closed course record” even existed.

Meanwhile, the boffins at Mercedes Benz were doing some development work on a project car called the C-III. In 1979, MB worked up a version, the CIII-IV, designed specifically to beat Donohue … and Porsche. MB took this car down to the 7.8 mile track at Nardo in southern Italy … and burned off a lap at 250.918 mph.

Never one to let a challenge go by, in 1987 good ol’ AJ went on out to the 7.7 mile Firestone Test Track at Fort Stockton, TEXAS (‘MERICA! HELL YEAH!) and drove a 257.123 mph lap in a 4 cylinder Oldsmobile Aerotech. He also did a two-way flying mile at 267.88 mph in a modified version of the same car. That was 30 years ago ... and even though it was pretty low-tech compared with today's racers, I still think its a pretty hot car:

But does it mean anything? How can anyone compare a lap speed set on one track under certain conditions of weather and track temps and compare it with lap speeds set on different tracks with different conditions? Further, can a lap of Nürburgring, Nordschleife (a road course), compare with a lap at Talladega Superspeedway (a banked tri-oval)? In my old eyes both tracks are very challenging, but completely different posing wildly different challenges for both driver and car.

Years ago I read that the FIA actually had some sort of rules regarding the setting of closed course speed records … but now … I dunno.

But I sure do like to see cars go fast … and the idea of “You go build a car … I go build a car … and let’s go see who is fastest” sure does have a certain appeal.

EDIT: The more I think on this, the more I hope this sort of thing catches on ... but gets refined so that we are comparing oranges with oranges and thus becomes more meaningful.

 

[tr1v1um]

Although I LOVE this “you go build a car and I go build a car … now let’s go see which one is fastest” sort of thing, a lot of people think that it doesn’t mean much. We’ve been through this sort of thing before.

Back in 1974, AJ Foyt went to Talladega Superspeedway with a specially prepped Indy car and drove a 217.854 mph lap there to set an “exhibition closed course speed record” and kinda set thing in motion. A year later, Mark Donohue took a specially prepped Can-Am Porsche 9170-30 to the same track and drove a lap at 221.160 mph and claimed a “true closed course record”. At the time, arguments raged in the car magazines whether or not it meant anything … or even if something called a “true closed course record” even existed.

Meanwhile, the boffins at Mercedes Benz were doing some development work on a project car called the C-III. In 1979, MB worked up a version, the CIII-IV, designed specifically to beat Donohue … and Porsche. MB took this car down to the 7.8 mile track at Nardo in southern Italy … and burned off a lap at 250.918 mph.

Never one to let a challenge go by, in 1987 good ol’ AJ went on out to the 7.7 mile Firestone Test Track at Fort Stockton, TEXAS (‘MERICA! HELL YEAH!) and drove a 257.123 mph lap in a 4 cylinder Oldsmobile Aerotech. He also did a two-way flying mile at 267.88 mph in a modified version of the same car. That was 30 years ago ... and even though it was pretty low-tech compared with today's racers, I still think its a pretty hot car:

View attachment 258295

View attachment 258294


But does it mean anything? How can anyone compare a lap speed set on one track under certain conditions of weather and track temps and compare it with lap speeds set on different tracks with different conditions?

Years ago I read that the FIA actually had some sort of rules regarding the setting of closed course speed records … but now … I dunno.

But I sure do like to see cars go fast … and the idea of “You go build a car … I go build a car … and let’s go see who is fastest” sure does have a certain appeal.

You actually bring up a point that shows, why I still consider Bellof's record a far greater achievement than Porsche doing their circle jerk at the Ring on a closed track. Bellof's achievement was that incredible because he smashed other drivers having the same car, with names like Jacky Ickx, Derek Bell or Keke Rosberg to name a few. Not to take away from what Timo did, but doing what Bellof did against the top of the top of motorsport in far more dangerous circumstances with clutch and h-pattern in traffic around the ring took most likely a bit more than going at it flat out alone on a newly paved ring with a relatively safe car with paddel shifters. Porsche should give him a 956 and see if he can beat the time.

 

[Will Mazeo]

Agreed, the real closed speed record is this one! Car done with a race spec

Gosh this car look like a bloody jet, I love it

 

[gecco]

Wow, that acceleration out of the corners from that hybrid is just insane. One push at the button and it almost like jumps to 349km/h at Kesselchen, and just unbelievable how quickly it reached almost 370km/h after Döttingerhöhe.

What impresses me the most is, how ridiculously fast the car transversed the corners, and it was still clearly visible, that the driver was not even pushing too hard, he kept it safe all the time, and how stable the car seems to be aerodynamically. Going along at nearly 370km/h, the onboard view showed how violent the driver was shaken by the undulations of the road, still the car seemed to be on a stable trajectory. Ultimately, only the driver will know how twitchy it really was, but it sure impressed me!

Congrats to Porsche and Timo Bernhard!

 

[Richard Dastardly]

You actually bring up a point that shows, why I still consider Bellof's record a far greater achievement than Porsche doing their circle jerk at the Ring on a closed track. Bellof's achievement was that incredible because he smashed other drivers having the same car, with names like Jacky Ickx, Derek Bell or Keke Rosberg to name a few. Not to take away from what Timo did, but doing what Bellof did against the top of the top of motorsport in far more dangerous circumstances with clutch and h-pattern in traffic around the ring took most likely a bit more than going at it flat out alone on a newly paved ring with a relatively safe car with paddel shifters. Porsche should give him a 956 and see if he can beat the time.

I'm sure Stefan could have gone a bit faster at the time, much more a few years later when the 962 was rather faster than the '83 956 - and absolutely now, the track surface is grippier. This is however why there are lap records and track records... and why I thought the latest attempt would have been much more relevant if it was the LMP1 car. Timo doing a sub 5:30 is a massive achievement as a driver though, I don't want to take anything away from that and I don't think any discussion about super-expensive trackday cars vs homologated racecars should either.

One day someone should try a lap of that layout in a GT3 just to see how far off they are - I suspect not very.