Podium DD's VS Simucube 2's

[Darren Byrne]

Hi guys, the past while I was trying to find good comparisons between these two models of dd's. Has anyone tested both ? I understand that the software for these aren't complete yet but is there any clear winner here ? thanks.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I already have a P1-X, Carbon Kevlar seat and am comfortable. I would get HE's but obv struggling with stock...

I don't want to be without really hence wanting to convert my wheels but I understand where you are coming from. Motion doesn't interest me ATM, I would rather fast and consistent lap times over being wobbled around in the seat.

My thought was convert my Fanatec wheel, buy a SC2, sell the wheelbase, use the pedals and when the stock madness ends buy new pedals. I refuse to pay over the odds for new pedals when I have perfectly acceptable ones already

If your order of buying is purely availability bound, than there isn't much to say. Do what works to bide your time until what you want is available.

For me motion and tactile are more important because I only sim in VR. Motion and tactile make the immersion dramatically better. Motion helps keep my visitors from getting nausea as well. If you are using screens I would argue that tactile and motion are less important.

 

[Fastard]

The issue with cheaper wheels is that they will tend to flex, the switchgear may not handle being shaken hard and the wheel may eventually develop creaks and popping noises.

And that’s the case on both(DD&SC) platforms I guess?

Fanatec limits the torque on those cheaper wheels for a reason. The structure is plastic and will break if run on a full DD power.

I was asking for SC2 actually as if I ‘ll go with DD I will not buy a cheap wheel that limits the base capabilities. But my answer has been answered a few posts ago.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

For me motion and tactile are more important because I only sim in VR.

Everyone has different priorities.
I am racing in VR only and tactile in my personal opinion is way overrated, and high torque wheel on solid rig already gives more than enough "tactile" information that you can feel through the whole body.
They can still be helpful with sims that do not have good FFB, like in DR2 where they compensate for missing road noise, other than that they don't really do much for me.
They and motion add 'arcade' experience, but don't make you faster, quite opposite, as all that shaking and vibration just distract from "serious" driving when you really need to "listen" to what car is doing, and don't want little nuances and subtle changes in force feedback get lost in all that noise.
Just my personal experience, not looking for a debate or argument.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Just my personal experience, not looking for a debate or argument.

Don't worry, I specifically pulled that line item out from the rest and mentioned this as being a heavily subjective because I didn't want a debate or argument about it either

 

[DrRob]

Why ?
Because of the inferior design, less buttons and display functions?
Or because a cheap rim will not take full advantage of the base motor and the gaming experience will not be the same.
That's what I try to find out.

My brother is using the Fanatec McLaren 650GT3 rim on the DD1. With ~10Nm of torque it is fine, but creaking noises can be heard now and then. Full 20Nm would not be a good idea in my book.
Same for my Thrustmaster 383mod converted for my SC2Pro. With 10Nm you heard creaking noises, wouldn't go higher torque.
But for driving GT3s this is plenty of torque IMO.

Rigidity might be completely different with the new Fanatec Porsche rim though...or other Fana wheels for that matter.

 

[RCHeliguy]

And that’s the case on both(DD&SC) platforms I guess?

I would assume so.
I had the McLaren GT3 wheel with my CS 2.5 and gave it to my son with the entire CS group. It seemed fine on the CS 2.5 after I upgraded to the SRM shifters which are MUCH better and cost almost as much as the wheel itself.

There is another person taking part in this thread (not DrRob) with the McLaren converted over for use on his SC Pro and it is now making noise even though with the metal quick release it is supposed to be DD ready. I would still assume it would make noise on the DD1 or 2 eventually.

 

[deandsfsdfewsad]

And that’s the case on both(DD&SC) platforms I guess?

The SC2 holding torque is not limited like on Fanatec's products, this is the response I got from Granite devices when I asked:

hence why my money is going there way once I can get my hands on a SC 2 Pro

 

[super_gt]

1) You can't get the max of a Fanatec DD1 wheel when using their entry-level steering wheels. The base detects the steering wheel and drops torque. What is the minimum you need in order to get the max of the wheels base motor?

There are only three steering wheels in which torque is limited:
(the torque is limited to the level of CSW V2.5)
CSL steering wheel P1
CSL Elite steering wheel P1(Xbox and PS4 version)
CSL Elite McLaren GT3 when it is with the plastic QR, with the metal QR the torque is not limited.
With all other steering wheels the torque is not limited.

 

[TedBrosby-]

This is exactly what I meant probably thousands sold and a couple of social media post make you react that most people have regrets.

so tell me, if I buy only a base for around 1200euro because I have wheels allready or I buy a base for 1400 euro, and add a wireless modulehub and a rim ( minimal 700 euro for gt style because I don’t wont 3D printed stuff for those prices ) and a extra quickrelease and a stock wheel ( as I also run a drift/rally with sequential, whereI go wrong in my calculations....

its really strange how people want to justify their expenses.... there are just many choices don’t act like one is the holy grail because each product has their plusses and minors.

the fun fact is that you get a sc2 for better wheels ( I can understand that) but you can’t compare a 6 or 700 euro wheel to a 300 wheel do you.....?Fun fact 2 I see a lot of simcube drivers using fanatec wheels either... so I guess those aren’t “that” bad after all.... for the price.

I am Just here to share experience, not to promote brands.... Endless discussions....

To be honest, we might just need to make a new forum and encourage people to have healthy unbiased discussion. This forum is basically "Simucube Fans Department".
Everyone praises the SC2 over any other wheel, completely ignoring that Barry Rowland himself said he wouldn't full time an SC2 over his Leo Bodnar.

Fanatec definitely sells more DD1/DD2 than SC2 considering how many markets they're in, so of course issues will be highlighted and emphasized more. The question is, do they resolve the issues?

It's just impossible for me to get unbiased advice about DD1/2 vs SC2 because everyone here starts with "I have never owned the DD1/2 but... " and then proceeds to say like five or ten negative things about Fanatec's reliability and support based on anecdotes from other people.

The only legitimate negative I can see to Fanatec is that they made up some stuff about not allowing non Fanatec wheels to use FFB because supposedly the wheels can make the wheel base operate out of spec and void warranty. It's obvious they're just trying to force people to spend money on Fanatec wheels because the Podium Hub wouldn't even exist if that were true. Everything else, reliability and software wise, they're still updating software and making changes to firmware. It's their first foray into Direct Drive, while Granite has had four years working on direct drive electronics and software.

I wonder how the DD1 will compare to the SC2 Sport or DD2 to SC2 Pro in six months or so when Fanatec has been out for longer than 1 year.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

To be honest, we might just need to make a new forum and encourage people to have healthy unbiased discussion. This forum is basically "Simucube Fans Department".

Don't owners of either system have permission to post, and as you are saying Fanatec sold more units, shouldn't they have majority advantage?

 

[mrbean_phillip]

It's just impossible for me to get unbiased advice about DD1/2 vs SC2 because everyone here starts with "I have never owned the DD1/2 but... " and then proceeds to say like five or ten negative things about Fanatec's reliability and support based on anecdotes from other people.

I own a Fanatec Podium DD2, as well as a SC2 Pro and Ultimate, and have owned 2x Bodnar SS2 54 wheels, as well as an Accuforce V2, and to many OSW wheels to recall them all. Currently, if I can advise anyone interested in dd wheels, the SC2 Pro will be my pick if the bunch.

If Barry prefers the Bodnar over the SC2 Pro he tested, it is his prerogative, my bet is he did not properly tune his Pro, as it covers all possible ffb ‘feel’ from the Fanatec Podium on one extreme, to the Bodnar on the other extreme, of the spectrum.

Over on iRacing, quite a few very fast racers has moved on from the SS2 to the SC2, all are of the opinion that the move was definitely a step up.

At the end, your best bet is to try before you buy. If you do though, make sure to give each system at least a day through your hands, longer if possible, as the amount of information available from dd wheels in general tends to overwhelm your senses, it takes a week or longer to begin to understand what it communicates back to you.

Cheers,
‘Beano

 

[Squared Circle]

To be honest, we might just need to make a new forum and encourage people to have healthy unbiased discussion. This forum is basically "Simucube Fans Department".
Everyone praises the SC2 over any other wheel, completely ignoring that Barry Rowland himself said he wouldn't full time an SC2 over his Leo Bodnar.

Fanatec definitely sells more DD1/DD2 than SC2 considering how many markets they're in, so of course issues will be highlighted and emphasized more. The question is, do they resolve the issues?

It's just impossible for me to get unbiased advice about DD1/2 vs SC2 because everyone here starts with "I have never owned the DD1/2 but... " and then proceeds to say like five or ten negative things about Fanatec's reliability and support based on anecdotes from other people.

The only legitimate negative I can see to Fanatec is that they made up some stuff about not allowing non Fanatec wheels to use FFB because supposedly the wheels can make the wheel base operate out of spec and void warranty. It's obvious they're just trying to force people to spend money on Fanatec wheels because the Podium Hub wouldn't even exist if that were true. Everything else, reliability and software wise, they're still updating software and making changes to firmware. It's their first foray into Direct Drive, while Granite has had four years working on direct drive electronics and software.

I wonder how the DD1 will compare to the SC2 Sport or DD2 to SC2 Pro in six months or so when Fanatec has been out for longer than 1 year.

I guess there are not very many people who own both (DD* and SC2*). And then it would be again a comparison that somebody could find unfair (DD1 vs. Ultimate or DD2 vs. Sport).

To me the decision was a close one. In the end I didn't like the idea of the vendor lock-in. The argument that wheels might let the base operate out of spec seems valid. But it does not apply to SC2 obviously because they don't limit their base to a specific brand of wheels. Which in turn logically can only mean only one thing: They trust their base more than Fanatec trust their's.
I don't think this has to do with being a "fan" or something. At least to me it's just a logical thing. I wish even more people would go the Fanatec route. It would make it easier to get a SC2 these days

 

[AccAkut]

Which in turn logically can only mean only one thing: They trust their base more than Fanatec trust their's.

this is again probably more due to company background rather than "distrust". The commercialisation of third party rims is, from a gaming gear brand perspective, a pretty new thing.

But for an industrial supplier it's pretty much a given that your customer will bolt whatever he likes to your product. Their product is the wheel base, anything else is third party and (hopefully) according to specification. Part of those are open to anyone, part is only provided once a rim maker proofs that he is producing good products.

 

[TedBrosby-]

this is again probably more due to company background rather than "distrust". The commercialisation of third party rims is, from a gaming gear brand perspective, a pretty new thing.

But for an industrial supplier it's pretty much a given that your customer will bolt whatever he likes to your product. Their product is the wheel base, anything else is third party and (hopefully) according to specification. Part of those are open to anyone, part is only provided once a rim maker proofs that he is producing good products.

I think it's also a byproduct of resources and focus. Granite only does one thing for sim racing and that's the DD wheel implementation. That allows them to focus all their energy on the SC2 and not on dealing with QC issues related to a wheel's drivers or missed shifts/button clicks (stares at GT3 Fanatec wheel glaringly).

If Granite blocked other vendors from making wheels for the SC2, they'd have to make wheels themselves and that's a considerable amount of engineering and industrial design.

Fanatec isn't "impossible" with non Fanatec wheels, it's just expensive to the point of discouraging. The Podium Hub is $250. A QR wheel attachment is at the most unreasonable side, $75 or so. Once you buy into a QR system, you just need 70mm or 50mm pattern mounts for each wheel you own and off you go.

My biggest discouraging factor for the DD1/DD2 is that I don't want a full formula wheel and the only GTE sized wheel they have was plagued with QC issues, made of plastic and discontinued. The Formula wheels are just a bit too small (27cm). I want something 28 or 29 cm sized like the Ascher or Polsimer wheels and Fanatec just doesn't have anything that size.
For the power and specs, I actually like the DD1, but the wheel ecosystem is pretty discouraging. I wish they'd back pedal on that because their wheels just aren't as high quality of the stuff we're seeing.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Fanatec isn't "impossible" with non Fanatec wheels, it's just expensive to the point of discouraging. The Podium Hub is $250. A QR wheel attachment is at the most unreasonable side, $75 or so

You can use different rims, but still locked to that inferior to most 3rd party wheel plates Podium hub.

 

[TedBrosby-]

Congratulations to everyone who got an SC2 Sport/Pro when they were in stock last night. I didn't know they would get new stock at SimRacingBay and I was asleep.
Looks like they sold out in about 15 minutes.

Personally, part of the reason I'm considering passing on SC2 is due to how hard it is to get one.
It's basically a battle of which I dislike more:
1. Fanatec has a non standard mounting solution which means I'd need to use a partially plastic Podium Hub to attach a Cube Controls wheel in the future.
2. Simucube 2 is literally like finding a Nintendo Switch in March 2017 and since they aren't authorized retail in my country of residence (Japan), if I had issues I would have to ship overseas or wait for overseas shipment to get it resolved, but Fanatec is literally a 2 or 3 day wait for me since they have a Japan distribution/fulfillment/RMA center.

 

[Richard85]

whats plasic about the podium hub ? the only thing thats plastic is the cover for the atachments.

 

[BluePotato00]

I own a Fanatec Podium DD2, as well as a SC2 Pro and Ultimate, and have owned 2x Bodnar SS2 54 wheels, as well as an Accuforce V2, and to many OSW wheels to recall them all. Currently, if I can advise anyone interested in dd wheels, the SC2 Pro will be my pick if the bunch.

If Barry prefers the Bodnar over the SC2 Pro he tested, it is his prerogative, my bet is he did not properly tune his Pro, as it covers all possible ffb ‘feel’ from the Fanatec Podium on one extreme, to the Bodnar on the other extreme, of the spectrum.

Over on iRacing, quite a few very fast racers has moved on from the SS2 to the SC2, all are of the opinion that the move was definitely a step up.

At the end, your best bet is to try before you buy. If you do though, make sure to give each system at least a day through your hands, longer if possible, as the amount of information available from dd wheels in general tends to overwhelm your senses, it takes a week or longer to begin to understand what it communicates back to you.

Cheers,
‘Beano

Thank you for your highly informed opinion, Beano! Would you mind sharing why you recommend the SC2 Pro over the Ultimate (since you mentioned it's your "pick of the bunch)?

 

[RCHeliguy]

Sorry for all of you who are frustrated by waiting. Generally patience is best, but do what makes you happy.

There is no point being religious about this stuff. It is great to be informed, but these are toys after all. Try not to stress over them.

I do think with all the comparative language, people lose sight of the fact a direct drive wheel isn't the end all and be all. I would have been fine with my CS 2.5 for many years. These are a nice to have, not a must have item.

 

[Glaniu]

if the dedicated engine in Podium is not able to catch up with the industrial SC2 engine, then the question is: is the outrunner better?