Podium DD's VS Simucube 2's

Darren Byrne · Aug 21, 2019

Hi guys, the past while I was trying to find good comparisons between these two models of dd's. Has anyone tested both ? I understand that the software for these aren't complete yet but is there any clear winner here ? thanks.

Deleted member 197115 · Jul 8, 2020

Darren Byrne said:
Is this a positive? Im maybe a few days away on pulling the plug on a sc2 pro, but the price point of the vrs dd is tempting.. aren’t there many options for that mige motor? Ioni, argon, simucube? What is the current best model and spec of Mige to have today? Thanks

The most popular is Small Mige (130ST-M10010), Beano still recommends it as the least inertia and power demand motor

New OSW build - MiGe motor(s) consideration (speed, inertia)

Wheel speed is capped by voltage. The motors are rated for 220 V voltage and the indicated values in the datasheet represent the RPM the motor will run at that voltage.

community.granitedevices.com

This is what VRS is using as well.
For system, SC1 is the latest from Granite Devices that you can use with Mige, but seems like SimuCube board is discontinued, so unless you can find used one, the chances of getting one are pretty slim. Argon is another option, this is what most people refer to as OSW, but you would need to do DIY with off the shelf components.
https://sim-pli.city/products/sw20-v3-20nm-direct-drive-wheel is using Mige too, take a look at their offering as well.

mrbean_phillip · Jul 8, 2020

You can still buy Simucube here on GD’s store, make sure to select the Ioni Pro as well for small Mige, Ioni Pro HC for large Mige:

SimuCUBE

SimuCUBE is a complete simulator force feedback controller for single motorized actuator such as a steering wheel.

store.granitedevices.com

Cheers,
Beano

TedBrosby- · Jul 8, 2020

jakburn2029 said:
Has Fanatec sorted out the play in the quick release on the Podium dd2 yet?

This has put me off going the fanatec route at the moment.

On the other hand I got an email from simracingbay telling me the sc2 pro was in stock, .....about eleven hours after they had sold out .

So I have more chance of stepping in Rocking Horse 5h17 than getting an sc2.

I need more options, but the market seems somewhat limited.

J

It’s not the market that’s limited. RaceDepartment is heavily biased toward the SC2 and it will falsely make you believe it’s the only choice.
Accuforce V2, SC1 if you can find one, VRS DirectForce Pro, DD1 are also viable options. You just have to find a different forum to talk about them because this place is biased for SC2.
IMO, the SC1 is your best bet.
I wish SRB wouldn’t have discontinued the SC1 complete... Maybe the Sport really is better than the Small MIGE/Medium MIGE SC1, but people who don’t want to wait three months or spend $1300 would’ve had a better time using SC1 than nothing at all.

mrbean_phillip · Jul 8, 2020

I am not sure where you guys have seen the Simucube 1 discontinued. See my feedback above your post.

TedBrosby- · Jul 8, 2020

mrbean_phillip said:
You can still buy Simucube here on GD’s store, make sure to select the Ioni Pro as well for small Mige, Ioni Pro HC for large Mige:

SimuCUBE

SimuCUBE is a complete simulator force feedback controller for single motorized actuator such as a steering wheel.

store.granitedevices.com

Cheers,
Beano

You just made my day, my man.
I thought they were discontinued because you can’t find them anywhere else.
Im going to build an SC1. I get that SC2 is the new hype but I’ve seen enough people say that they still like their SC1 that I’d rather go that route than sit around staring at my shopping cart hoping to find an SC2 in stock. Plus I already have a CM Core case so I’ll just stack another one underneath for my component box.
I’ll dig up an old SC1 OSW thread for research and try to negotiate a MIGE. Maybe I can get a good price since everyone is buying Fanatec and SC2 now lol.

mrbean_phillip · Jul 8, 2020

Ted,
SC1 combined with a small or large Mige with a BiSS encoder us still an exceptionally good wheel, only bested by SC2 and perhaps Bodnar, in the case if the latter if you indeed prefer that over-dampened feel of the SS2.

On top of that, Mika has just released a new improved version of the SC1 FW overnight, with quite a few of the SC2 features now rolled in.

Have fun building it, let me know if you have questions once you get to the diy side.

Cheers,
‘Beano

EsxPaul · Jul 8, 2020

@TedBrosby- I believe Simtech Racing are still carrying full SC1 kits although the delivery charges are pretty high for your region.

https://www.simtechracing.co.uk/web-shop/osw-steering-systems

Darren Byrne · Jul 8, 2020

Andrew_WOT said:
The most popular is Small Mige (130ST-M10010), Beano still recommends it as the least inertia and power demand motor

New OSW build - MiGe motor(s) consideration (speed, inertia)

Wheel speed is capped by voltage. The motors are rated for 220 V voltage and the indicated values in the datasheet represent the RPM the motor will run at that voltage.

community.granitedevices.com

This is what VRS is using as well.
For system, SC1 is the latest from Granite Devices that you can use with Mige, but seems like SimuCube board is discontinued, so unless you can find used one, the chances of getting one are pretty slim. Argon is another option, this is what most people refer to as OSW, but you would need to do DIY with off the shelf components.
https://sim-pli.city/products/sw20-v3-20nm-direct-drive-wheel is using Mige too, take a look at their offering as well.

Thanks, i was just wondering if vrs was using a simucube controller ? And would the new updates be compatible but maybe not, they seem to sell them now and ive made a reservation. Barry seemed to like it alot and said if it was his only wheel he would have no problem with that too. There are a few sc1 packages floating around but they are just over 1000£ but i guess with the added mounts and wheel mount the vrs takes that to 999€ for me also. The fact that theres a small team behind its development in the future seem like a positive over the other systems imo

Deleted member 197115 · Jul 8, 2020

TedBrosby- said:
You just made my day, my man.
I thought they were discontinued because you can’t find them anywhere else.
Im going to build an SC1. I get that SC2 is the new hype but I’ve seen enough people say that they still like their SC1 that I’d rather go that route than sit around staring at my shopping cart hoping to find an SC2 in stock. Plus I already have a CM Core case so I’ll just stack another one underneath for my component box.
I’ll dig up an old SC1 OSW thread for research and try to negotiate a MIGE. Maybe I can get a good price since everyone is buying Fanatec and SC2 now lol.

Welcome to the "echo chamber".

You say that, but the general opinion on this sub is "Fanatec bad, if you don't like Simucube, it's your fault you did something wrong".
To be honest, I regret my premium subscription. The community here is just an echo chamber of people patting each other on the back for repeating the same things.

Mr Latte · Jul 8, 2020

I will happily take someone's DD1 or DD2 and give it a good home if they are now ashamed or embarrassed of owning one.
Heck I will even pay for postage and we can keep it confidential.

None of these wheels should be the prices they are, it's ridiculous for what is mainly a motor.

tapidlittle · Jul 8, 2020

I am in the market for a direct drive wheel.... I really like the look of the Fanatec wheels, and they are much cheaper than the Cube Control wheels, but I don't mind paying more for a better product.

My understanding so far is that Fanatec are harder to fit a wheel from another company compared to the SimCube 2.

For the Simcube, I like the Cube Control formula wheel, which can be wireless, a big ++ to me. Are they any other wheels that can fit on the SimCube (formula wheels) that can be wireless??

Deleted member 197115 · Jul 8, 2020

Ascher, Simracingbay, nsh-racing, Cube-Control
There could be others.

TedBrosby- · Jul 8, 2020

EsxPaul said:
@TedBrosby- I believe Simtech Racing are still carrying full SC1 kits although the delivery charges are pretty high for your region.

https://www.simtechracing.co.uk/web-shop/osw-steering-systems

I ordered the Simucube 1 and I'll get an IONI, I'm debating between small or large mige before picking IONI. I just need to find an encoder since SRB doesn't sell the 22-bit anymore, but I'm debating building one myself. Seems to be a 22-bit absolute encoder.

Andrew_WOT said:
Welcome to the "echo chamber".

My opinion on everyone’s thoughts on the SC2 hasn’t changed I don’t know what you’re getting at.

jakburn2029 · Jul 9, 2020

Well I've gone and done it!

Simucube 2 Ultimate paid for and on it's way.

I don't know what the kid's are going to eat, they looking a bit chubby anyway.

I'm off to wipe rocking horse 5h17 off me foot.

J

TedBrosby- · Jul 9, 2020

mrbean_phillip said:
Ted,
SC1 combined with a small or large Mige with a BiSS encoder us still an exceptionally good wheel, only bested by SC2 and perhaps Bodnar, in the case if the latter if you indeed prefer that over-dampened feel of the SS2.

On top of that, Mika has just released a new improved version of the SC1 FW overnight, with quite a few of the SC2 features now rolled in.

Have fun building it, let me know if you have questions once you get to the diy side.

Cheers,
‘Beano

So I delayed buying the IONI because I wanted to research large vs small MIGE. I read your comments here: https://community.granitedevices.co...e-motor-s-consideration-speed-inertia/5464/11
I don't mind over-clocking but all my searches hasn't found anywhere that people say exactly how to overclock. I'll probably make a separate thread but is there some wiki or somewhere this is done? Also, I'm guessing an over-clock might require additional power, so instead of 360W should I go 420W or higher for the Meanwell PSU?
I figured this out, for anyone curious:
Your IONI board provides Amperage to your Servo Motor using an MMC setting in Simucube software.
All of this of course depends on the quality of your PSU, but if you get a 480/720 (might not be necessary), you can run 18A which will apparently put you right around 27 NM of torque (Higher maybe?). However, as Beano pointed out in other posts, the IONI Pro HC (which is required for Large MIGE) has a limitation of 25A and unfortunately, the large MIGE at 25A only outputs 27.9 Nm of torque. And because it has higher inertia, it means a Large MIGE at 27.9 NM will technically be less smooth than a Small MIGE at 27 NM. This all depends on how comfortable you are overdriving (using a more powerful PSU, setting your MMC to 16A for 25Nm on the small MIGE or 18A for 27NM).
Overdriving is apparently very easy, but hard to find information on Google for lol (or my Google searching sucks).
Looks like I'm ordering small mige and ioni pro. I'll put the money saved toward a PSU.

TedBrosby- · Jul 9, 2020

Andrew_WOT said:
The most popular is Small Mige (130ST-M10010), Beano still recommends it as the least inertia and power demand motor

New OSW build - MiGe motor(s) consideration (speed, inertia)

Wheel speed is capped by voltage. The motors are rated for 220 V voltage and the indicated values in the datasheet represent the RPM the motor will run at that voltage.

community.granitedevices.com

This is what VRS is using as well.
For system, SC1 is the latest from Granite Devices that you can use with Mige, but seems like SimuCube board is discontinued, so unless you can find used one, the chances of getting one are pretty slim. Argon is another option, this is what most people refer to as OSW, but you would need to do DIY with off the shelf components.
https://sim-pli.city/products/sw20-v3-20nm-direct-drive-wheel is using Mige too, take a look at their offering as well.

BTW, according to Barry, the model number is slightly different for the VRS DFP. I wonder if the changes from the 2008 version most OSW's use (the addition of a thermal based kill switch) are actually something specific for the DFP version or if that's just because newer models include it by default.
If the motor itself is different in some way (It's apparently 130ST-AM10010-DFP), I wonder if you can order it directly from Lisa Zhan, slap an SC1 on it and have an SC1 DirectForce lol.

Deleted member 197115 · Jul 9, 2020

TedBrosby- said:
BTW, according to Barry, the model number is slightly different for the VRS DFP. I wonder if the changes from the 2008 version most OSW's use (the addition of a thermal based kill switch) are actually something specific for the DFP version or if that's just because newer models include it by default.
If the motor itself is different in some way (It's apparently 130ST-AM10010-DFP), I wonder if you can order it directly from Lisa Zhan, slap an SC1 on it and have an SC1 DirectForce lol.

Better chance to get a response in that linked thread on Granite forum.

Moonmachine · Jul 9, 2020

jakburn2029 said:
Well I've gone and done it!

Simucube 2 Ultimate paid for and on it's way.

I don't know what the kid's are going to eat, they looking a bit chubby anyway.

I'm off to wipe rocking horse 5h17 off me foot.

J

Where did you order from? I see SRB have them, came in at £3215 for me. I felt like I was going to throw up and deleted my basket.

JakeMerr · Jul 9, 2020

Moonmachine said:
Where did you order from? I see SRB have them, came in at £3215 for me. I felt like I was going to throw up and deleted my basket.

Isn't it euros so would bring it down to around £2880?

I couldn't justify that, ordered the Pro from Demon Thieves and will dispatch 1st August...

Squared Circle · Jul 9, 2020

Moonmachine said:
Where did you order from? I see SRB have them, came in at £3215 for me. I felt like I was going to throw up and deleted my basket.

JakeMerr is right. That's Euros, so it would be a lot cheaper

To be honest: I still don't understand why they are not rising prices. We are obviously crazy enough to pay them

Don't know about Slovenia but Fanatec as being based in Germany now rose their prices by 3% as VAT has been reduced from 19 to 16% and their end user prices haven't changed.