One To Watch | Simracing604 On GT3 Popularity In Racing Simulations

michelforest

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I think this is one the main reasons people die so much in traffic accidents. You don't feel a car's connection to the road. It makes you less aware how fast you are going. It makes you lazy.
You are right, I believe. I remember reading a study done when ABS was introduced on road cars. I believe it was done in Germany. Many taxi drivers were loaned cars with the new ABS feature on their cars. Turned out that they had more accidents with these cars than the drivers without ABS. The additional feature made drivers feel more secure and thus more prone to adopt risky behaviors behind the wheel.
 
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David Faraday

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I don't have a problem with GT3 in themselves, they are great cars and it's great to be able to watch a race on TV (well YouTube) and then fire up the sim and recreate it. My issue is that because they do have the driver aids they make the driver lazy. Case in point, this week in raceroom we have a 911 cup car in the ranked schedule. It's brilliant. No TC, ABS or tyre heaters.... You have to really drive it, feel the grip and use it as the tyres come in. So rewarding to drive. But what happens in the servers? Driver joins, outbrakes himself, spins, gets frustrated and quits. Because they are all too used to the easy nature of the GT3 class. So my beef with GT3 is that is so easy to drive that it pushes other often far more interesting content aside. Anyway....I'm off to drive my beloved cup car....
 
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mantasisg

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GT3 are just like that video - empty, average, appealing and telling nothing no brainer things. They are like radio music, they are like hollywood moneymakers.

The worst part of it is that IMO GT3 cars are more awesome than that IRL. And they are worse in simracing in order to reflect average expectations and make the RaCiNg aND ffB mOre GoOD.

Each sim has its own individual way of dragging reality to a bit more profitable virtual realm. Perhaps the weirdest one is iRacing with its way of bitchslapping beta simracers by extracting good amounts of money from them and at the same time reinforcing their submission by making them drive ultra sharp unforgiving tires or/and perhaps aero too. Others usually seem to be attempting to do the opposite - making cars more sloppy and lazy in order to accomodate slow hands and brick feet.

I still think after several years that ACC in its very first early release just after hotfix was the most realistic GT3 car simulation ever, just perhaps slightly more on the more difficult side. They quickly backed off a lot towards AC side after lots of complains (obviously because it was too different to AC). I have stopped with ACC, but I do wonder if they kept trying to move slowly back to how it was in first early release, or just went comfortably with the community flow.

rF2 is awesome, but they also seems to have slow hands and brick feet sindorme. Simracers don't like twitching, they don't like tankslappers.

The slogan of GT3 cars in simracing could be:
"Built for rich guys, who must be unskilled just like I am" or "FFB is everything for us"
 
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Slapped

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I still think after several years that ACC in its very first early release just after hotfix was the most realistic GT3 car simulation ever, just perhaps slightly more on the more difficult side. They quickly backed off a lot towards AC side after lots of complains (obviously because it was too different to AC). I have stopped with ACC, but I do wonder if they kept trying to move slowly back to how it was in first early release, or just went comfortably with the community flow.
At least a couple of real life GT3 drivers (David Perel and Nicki Thiim) didn't agree with that, and David Perel in particular worked with Kunos to get the handling of the GT3 cars right.

GT3 cars are relatively easy to drive in real life, in fact most modern race cars are not that difficult to drive, at least in the hands of a pro driver. Think about it - if a car is twitchy and difficult to control then a driver is not going to have the confidence to push, especially if they think the car is going to try to kill them on every corner. So the cars are designed to be driveable for that reason - you can't win a race if you're wrapped around a tree.
 

mantasisg

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Easy... hard... blabla that does not describe anything abot physics.

AFAIK they had some real drivers testing before that sim even got out into early access.

Cars are surely designed to be as good as possible, they always are. You forget one element - the tire. Tire is like mother nature of racing lol it dictates everything, everything depends on it. And it is not about it being so hard it "tries to kill driver", it is just that there are some "exciting" character featuresof tires and thats it. And if you would be totally honest you would agree that cars do try to kill drivers sometimes, you can not say that they never does that.
 
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I struggle to understand the hate for GT3s in simracing. They may seem easy to pick up, but a great driver can extract a lot more pace from it (just look at the real 24h of Spa last week!). They offer a variety of 'character traits' with similar performance. And finally, they produce little enough downforce to feel like a car in sims, something which fasters cars struggle to replicate.
All of these qualities require a good sim, however, and this is where the issue lies.
 
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Ghoults

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Lots of different cars = lots of ways to be unique and different. Also lots of cars means there is a car for everybody they can feel like it is fun to drive. Bop makes sure all cars are more or less useful even if there are differences in speed. The cars are also very quick and have lots of downforce which makes them easier to drive for many people who can't really handle high speed oversteer. And you have driving aids which also help at lower speeds. I'd even say the traction control and abs makes it even harder for people to switch to other cars. You can just stomp on throttle and stomp on brakes and get around corners. Even in f3 car that is not so simple. So for such quick cars they are pretty easy to jump in and just drive.

The cars are also known and run in many series. Familiarity is never a bad thing. And the cars also look cool and every one of them has their own reasons to pick them, be that the sound, looks, straight line speed, handling characteristic or something else. And I think sportscars is a class a cars that has always had that special global appeal even if it is on the very superficial level. No matter if you are european, american, african or asian, you know these cars. I'm not much into gt3s but when I started simracing I was definitely very into sportscars. So I'm sure gt3 cars especially have a lot of appeal for new sim racers.

The racing in general is good and there are lots of other people driving those cars which guarantees more success for the sim as long as you have even someone playing that sim online. Not to mention the simracing e-sports tend to be a lot about gt3 cars as well. And gt3 go really well together with the other heavy hitters. Spa and nords while also providing a wide track list in every sim that replicates the real world offerings. It is not just that you can drive a car that you saw in tv or in a stream in a real race or in an e-sport event. But you can get the cars, not just the car but a lot of the cars, you can get the tracks, not just a track, and you can even get the right weather. It is one of the few car classes that offers that full combination of the pieces in many sims.
 

F_B

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I don't really like GT3 cars because they're over represented in every sim today. Join public multiplayer and you will find GT3s at Spa / Monza most of the times. There is no real variety anymore.
 

Mr Deap

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I struggle to understand the hate for GT3s in simracing. They may seem easy to pick up, but a great driver can extract a lot more pace from it (just look at the real 24h of Spa last week!). They offer a variety of 'character traits' with similar performance. And finally, they produce little enough downforce to feel like a car in sims, something which fasters cars struggle to replicate.
All of these qualities require a good sim, however, and this is where the issue lies.
Note: This is based on AC & not ACC. It's mainly the reason why I didn't buy it.

I do not hate GT3 as a class.

They're easy to drive. Although the technique people share do not stick as per read & do not represent what I see on the in-game telemetry. Every games has some quirk, but there are limit in how much people can get trolled.

You do not drive by feel. There's very little cue on how the car feel & most people new to the game do not trail brake deeper especially in ACC, because human brain tell no. The worst part in ACC is you have to keep your brake far more floored which makes it even worst.

The reason is behind the hate is the mainly due to lack of variety & it show on public lobbies. You need to be a specific type of person to enjoy GT3 only & always run the same track using those technique that do not stick as per read.

I never tried ACC, but retained worst thing about AC that needed a lot of tweaks based on telemetry.
 

kondor999

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GT3 is popular among sim racers because they're easy to drive. I'm not sure why every single sim needs 8+ GT3 cars (all of which drive nearly identically) to satisfy the lower-skill side of the hobby.

People tend to get frustrated with something like an IMSA GTO, SCCA Trans Am or the '98 GT1 cars because they require considerably more skill to master than a car with ABS and TC designed for Pro/Am racing.
 

Ruy Horta

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...I like GT cars and racing, people seem to look for something to moan about, must be a luxury to find GT as the topic of your irritation. Maybe time to look at the world and find something more worthwhile to change.

I like GT cars and racing.

I like other classes as well, plenty of choice although you might believe there is not if you follow this thread.
 

Ryan Soucy

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People tend to get frustrated with something like an IMSA GTO, SCCA Trans Am or the '98 GT1 cars because they require considerably more skill to master than a car with ABS and TC designed for Pro/Am racing.
I like your comment only because I have uninstalled ACC but keep PC2 around because of the IMSA, Trans-am, and GT1/LMP900 cars!!! I don't care how "real" it feels to my hands, but my in my head I am totally immersed.
 

Ryan Soucy

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GT3 is on balance a good thing in that it lures a ton of manufacturers into the series. Its debatable that they do this because BOP ensures they don't really have to engineer the race cars to be any better than any other car.

For me, the series is kind of too "manufactured racing". Am I really supposed to believe that a $70k Lexus, a $50k Z3, or a $75k Corvette should be within 10ths of a $300k Bentley or $250k McLaren? I think it makes more sense to stratify cars by price. Then maybe it would incentivize Porsche or McLaren to make a cheaper high performance car. They'd get tired of watching Vettes and Mustangs destroying their 570S and 718s at 1/2 the price. I don't have any connection to GT3s in my past, either, so there's no nostalgia that makes me HAVE TO drive them. There's too much good racing content out there for me to put around with TC and ABS. I mean, and this is crazy, the AMS2 Chevette and Puma are a blast!!!
 
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Andrew Harper

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Already mentioned above but I think from a real life perspective, GT3 as a category is popular because of its variety.

OK, BoP has a hand in this but it's one of the few classes where you have front, mid, and rear engined cars. Turbo, non-turbo, small engine, large engine and so on. All racing and in with a chance of doing well. It's unusual to have the same winners all the time as well.

That for me is what I find interesting when watching the races, and from someone that goes to the races themselves the level of access and fan involvement is a breath of fresh air too.

However I will admit in the last few years the variety has started to drop a little, and I think that's because the costs of running the cars are starting to kick in slightly. We need a few more McLarens, NSX's for example.

GT3 has also been a bit of a saving grace during 2020. Why? Because in the main it's a customer based formula. In all forms of racing we have lost major works based teams this year due to COVID and budgets. With GT3 being more customer focused a lot of the teams have managed to stay around; we still had a huge field for the Spa 24 for example.

As far as sim-racing is concerned I actually very rarely race them. I tend to prefer the Oreca 07 prototype in RF2.

ACC will not run reliably on my PC so I've left it to one side at the moment until I can upgrade. I never got on with AC so don't race on that much either (which is a shame as it's a great sim for sure). Those two titles arguably offer the best GT3 experiences at the moment.
 
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