Mexican GP Debrief: Tempers Flare While Hamilton Eases to Victory

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

Not that I disagree with you but, just for curiosity sake... can you name a few ?
A few names from today's F1 that are fit in that profile I mean.

Let's start with an obvious one, Daniel Ricciardo. Aggressive with his moves and has never caused problems. Hamilton usually is clean and aggressive. I'm sure Nando can be aggressive and clean as well, though Austin didn't prove it so much

A big problem with Max is he hasn't taken responsibility for his actions once during his F1 career, it always is someone else's fault, or try's to cover up his flaws by trying to revisit a past mistake from another driver

 

[snyperal]

Yeah that's a fair shout. If max was a bit more mature I don't think it would hurt his popularity.

 

[GAIAjohan]

Not that I disagree with you but, just for curiosity sake... can you name a few ?
A few names from today's F1 that are fit in that profile I mean.

He means guys like Perez. Constantly driving behind Massa not daring to overtake.

I think in general most drivers of today are ****** and many things have become forbidden which was pretty normal in the past. All greats of the past and today have had their controversial moments and behaviour..
I think verstappen will become one of them. He has the balls to give himself the edge over others. He made f1 interesting again.
It's a love or hate guy, like the Villeneuves, like Schumacher, like Hamilton.

The fact verstappen is a source of debate nearly every race can be seen as a bad situation, but I'm pretty sure in current f1 it's needed. All the greats have been debated..

Oh and imo, Mr. Mars Bar should also learn to reply without the need to show stars.. I'm pretty sure for the words he used there, there are better alternatives. Not so long ago you'd be banned from forums if you swore..

Btw, Verstappen has said sorry for things in the last, but those are not translated by other press since those 'stories' are not interesting to mention.

 

[gamer19]

Let's start with an obvious one, Daniel Ricciardo. Aggressive with his moves and has never caused problems. Hamilton usually is clean and aggressive. I'm sure Nando can be aggressive and clean as well, though Austin didn't prove it so much
A big problem with Max is he hasn't taken responsibility for his actions once during his F1 career, it always is someone else's fault, or try's to cover up his flaws by trying to revisit a past mistake from another driver

Ok. My list would be something like this:
Ricc, Hulk, Button, Massa, then perhaps Bottas, Kimi, Alonso, Rosberg,...

And I agree that kid hasn't got sense of responsibility, he's never guilty for anything. Anytime.

He means guys like Perez. Constantly driving behind Massa not daring to overtake..

That's funny.

Oh and imo, Mr. Mars Bar should also learn to reply without the need to show stars.. I'm pretty sure for the words he used there, there are better alternatives. Not so long ago you'd be banned from forums if you swore..

Mr. Mars Bar is Vettel of Racedepartment !

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

Mr. Mars Bar is Vettel of Racedepartment !

It would sound stupid if I called Max a little poop

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

Oh and imo, Mr. Mars Bar should also learn to reply without the need to show stars.. I'm pretty sure for the words he used there, there are better alternatives. Not so long ago you'd be banned from forums if you swore..

******

Calls me out for using stars, uses stars himself.

 

[Turk]

Watching again you can see Vettel moving on the left so they were probably right with Vettel, I suppose.

Yeah, Vettel didn't need to be so aggressive there. Ricardo was already going to be on a tight line if Vettel just sat in the middle of the road. It should have allowed Vettel to carry more speed and stay ahead. I guess that's easy to say in hindsight.

 

[Erwin Greven]

F1 does not need a dirty, arrogant little ****. F1 needs clean but aggressive drivers.

The last thing Max is is arrogant. And as a reply of your quote that he never takes responsibility for his actions: All the actions he did were according the rules. That is why he never got penalized. The other drivers complained so they tightened the rulings of moving in the braking zone. Further he said that he had no problems with that 5 second penalty, but then it should be the same for everyone.

 

[Erwin Greven]

Let me be honest at one point: I have one problem with Max. The lack of respect towards his competitors when racing on the track. This is an attitude you normally see at simracing. There is no "what if..." behaviour.
Example: the first corner clash between him and Rosberg. What if he hit Rosberg in a wrong way and Rosberg had to retire? THAT would have been a decisive moment!

He has to calm down a bit more.

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

The last thing Max is is arrogant. And as a reply of your quote that he never takes responsibility for his actions: All the actions he did were according the rules. That is why he never got penalized. The other drivers complained so they tightened the rulings of moving in the braking zone. Further he said that he had no problems with that 5 second penalty, but then it should be the same for everyone.

I agree that it should be the same for everyone. I'm not saying it shouldn't. Lewis should have been penalised as Max was penalised. Also Vettel deserved his penalty, though I am still of the belief that Max should have been punished. I get your point there though. However, remember Monaco 2015 when Max crashed into Grosjean and blamed Grosjean for it, that's part of the not taking responsibility

Max comes across very arrogant is how I should of phrased it.

Let me be honest at one point: I have one problem with Max. The lack of respect towards his competitors when racing on the track. This is an attitude you normally see at simracing. There is no "what if..." behaviour.
Example: the first corner clash between him and Rosberg. What if he hit Rosberg in a wrong way and Rosberg had to retire? THAT would have been a decisive moment!

He has to calm down a bit more.

Agreed here as well

 

[gamer19]

Erwin, say, I'm curious...
since you so into that "Max isn't arrogant", what's your opinion about radio team orders for him ?
You know... when he's behind team mate he always demand to let him pass and when he's in front... he never like ever want to move for his own, faster, team mate. We all remember his "NO" via radio messages, aren't we ? And don't please make me search for examples, there's plenty of those. Regardless who's his team mate... Sainz, Ricc,...

But I'm sure you'll already find some loophole for him, once again.

What if he hit Rosberg in a wrong way and Rosberg had to retire?

So, if I understood you well... he hit him in a right way ??
We'll have to disagree then on this. He did hit him "in a wrong way" just Rosberg manage to continue ...somehow. And he has a slight wheel offset for the rest of the race. According to Rosberg himself.

 

[Erwin Greven]

Erwin, say, I'm curious...
since you so into that "Max isn't arrogant", what's your opinion about radio team orders for him ?
You know... when he's behind team mate he always demand to let him pass and when he's in front... he never like ever want to move for his own, faster, team mate. We all remember his "NO" via radio messages, aren't we ? And don't please make me search for examples, there's plenty of those. Regardless who's his team mate... Sainz, Ricc,...

But I'm sure you'll already find some loophole for him, once again.


So, if I understood you well... he hit him in a right way ??
We'll have to disagree then on this. He did hit him "in a wrong way" just Rosberg manage to continue ...somehow. And he has a slight wheel offset for the rest of the race. According to Rosberg himself.

He let Ricci pass in Mexico. And btw: the FOM is broadcasting the onboard radio. We don't get to hear everything.
I did not mean with "hitting in a wrong way" that there is a good way of hitting someone. This time they touched and both could continue (good way).
Last year around Monza i wrote at the Fastlane forum that i was worried for one thing: that Max would be a sort of Stefan Bellof: Too fast for his own good. No fear, going over the limit sometimes.
Nowadays i think that if he goes on like this he will NEVER be a world champion. Simply because the whole paddock will despise him.

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

Nowadays i think that if he goes on like this he will NEVER be a world champion. Simply because the whole paddock will despise him.

And I think this stems from arrogance. He chooses to ignore critism and advice from former world champions, and thinks he knows better almost. If he listened and learnt, we wouldn't be having this problem or discussion

 

[gamer19]

He let Ricci pass in Mexico...

Errr... yup, that's something I totally forgot. Somehow.

...Last year around Monza i wrote at the Fastlane forum that i was worried for one thing: that Max would be a sort of Stefan Bellof: Too fast for his own good. No fear, going over the limit sometimes.
Nowadays i think that if he goes on like this he will NEVER be a world champion. Simply because the whole paddock will despise him.

Yeah, that's something similar to what Lauda says about him after the Mexico.
It's not only to be fast, you have to be smart, too. I watch MotoGP races too and it's amazing to see, for an example, how much did Marc Marquez develop in this year. Last year he was a mess. Keep crashing and just over ride his bike. And he even start this season on much worst bike (Honda) than Rossi and Lorenzo (Yamaha).
You just give your 110%, help develop the car/bike and take as much points as you can every (can't stress that enough) and every time. And, whatever you do - just don't crash. Ever.
Just pick those damn two points.
Verstappen should take lesson from this amazing guy. Maybe his dad could get him some appointment.

 

[LacSlyer]

And I think this stems from arrogance. He chooses to ignore critism and advice from former world champions, and thinks he knows better almost. If he listened and learnt, we wouldn't be having this problem or discussion

Exactly, for example, several times veteran drivers have been critical of him and instead of owning up to it or simply ignoring it he displays an arrogant and immature attitude toward them as though they have no right to tell him what to do, despite them having been in similar situations. However, the bigger problem for him, in my opinion, is that he hasn't received appropriate penalties for his reckless behavior. We've seen it time and time again with great drivers who are immature and are reprimanded for their actions and come out of it for the better. For whatever reason, the FIA has been far too lenient with his driving and hypocritically so, in reprimanding other drivers for similar actions.

 

[LacSlyer]

Errr... yup, that's something I totally forgot. Somehow.


Yeah, that's something similar to what Lauda says about him after the Mexico.
It's not only to be fast, you have to be smart, too. I watch MotoGP races too and it's amazing to see, for an example, how much did Marc Marquez develop in this year. Last year he was a mess. Keep crashing and just over ride his bike. And he even start this season on much worst bike (Honda) than Rossi and Lorenzo (Yamaha).
You just give your 110%, help develop the car/bike and take as much points as you can every (can't stress that enough) and every time. And, whatever you do - just don't crash. Ever.
Just pick those damn two points.
Verstappen should take lesson from this amazing guy. Maybe his dad could get him some appointment.

As an avid MotoGP fan I couldn't have come up with a better example and had to point this out. Great drivers aren't just the ones who have the pace, but the intelligence for the big picture and the maturity to accept when they're wrong. Max has that potential, but if he doesn't grow out of this he's not going anywhere.

 

[fortyfivekev]

Max hasn't done anything that Senna or Schumacher didn't do a lot worse before and people remember those drivers pretty well. When he has deliberately taken someone off to win the title or put his teammate into the pitwall then there will be something to criticise.

Reducing the other driver's space is just a part of racing and it's a shame that there is so little wheel-to-wheel racing in F1 these days that people forget what it is all about.

 

[gamer19]

Yeah but ...those were the very very different times.
You could play rough. Reaaally rough. Sort of like in Barclays premier league, I guess.
There's basically no penalties.
Not saying this is better, of course, I think it should be somewhere in the middle.
Tbh, Senna wouldn't be Senna if he have to follow all today's rules. Simple as that. We watch his on track behaviour and consider him as a legend and very brave but by today's standard he was just being arrogant and basically expect from all the others to make a space for him.

 

[Appie Kuipers]

This discussion is going nowhere. Where are not F1 drivers, where are the public and fans.
If there is a discussion to be, its for the drivers, not us.
I love racing, follow F1 now for more then 40 years, never have seen a diccussion like this, it's the world upside down.
I and all racing fans want to see action, this is what MAX is doing!!

 

[Appie Kuipers]

Sorry, where=whe