Mexican GP Debrief: Tempers Flare While Hamilton Eases to Victory

[gamer19]

This discussion is going nowhere. Where are not F1 drivers, where are the public and fans.
If there is a discussion to be, its for the drivers, not us...

What a hell are you talking about ?
That's why forums are for.
You're a new with these matters aren't you ?

I and all racing fans want to see action, this is what MAX is doing!!

For someone who doesn't want to talk about it and thinks that "this discussion is going nowhere" ...you have a pretty strong opinion.
In my opinion.

Sorry, where=whe

You have "edit" button in the lower left corner. Try it.

 

[RoMaN14]

Regarding Hamilton, I think he would have been passed by 2 or 3 cars on Lap 1 so it was unfair I guess, but rather close because of the SC.

Regarding Vettel, he indeed moved under braking (truth be told Ric couldn't make the move anyway, he was way back), but if you want to penalize that, and be consistent, expect around 15 drive-throughs on every single race, basically forever. By the way Vettel left more than a car width.

Also, if moving under braking is a penalty, how is colliding on the same corner in order to get past not a penalty? I thought "causing a collision" was prohibited (I am talking about Lap 1).

EDIT: Obviously Max should have been disqualified immediately for unsportsmanlike behavior (on various occasions).

But all the above are not as important as the following, which is people insulting themselves by saying they wish a sport becomes a hazard to people's lives (via "wildcards" that is) for their own personal amusement. That is "problematic", to say the least.

 

[Stefan Woudenberg]

I hope Max won't meet any RD members... I think his life might in danger.... so much hate here...
It seems he did never anything right, only wrong things and when I read some comments he not even can handle a F1 car.

Thanx to him the F1 is more exciting. Always something happening. I can stay awake as long he is driving and I wonder what Max flaming will be here after the race.

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

Thanx to him the F1 is more exciting.

That's like saying Maldonado made F1 more exciting because he caused some any incidents/crashes

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

It seems he did never anything right, only wrong things

We wouldn't hate on him if he was a clean driver or act like an arrogant prick

 

[Stefan Woudenberg]

Andy you will be the right guy as founder of the "Max Verstappen hate club".
The club will be huge , 80% of F1 fans will join.

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

Andy you will be the right guy as founder of the "Max Verstappen hate club".
The club will be huge , 80% of F1 fans will join.

Nah, 80% of F1 fans will be voting for Max as driver of the day

 

[RoMaN14]

Just to clarify:

Aggressive Driving --> Yes, more of that.
Being a dick, putting lives at risk, and unsportsmanlike driving --> Loss of licence asap.

 

[Appie Kuipers]

Well gamer19, sure I want to talk about racing, but when its only anti MAX, some guy's have a problem.

 

[Erwin Greven]

Where=we.

It's not only to be fast, you have to be smart, too. I watch MotoGP races too and it's amazing to see, for an example, how much did Marc Marquez develop in this year. Last year he was a mess. Keep crashing and just over ride his bike. And he even start this season on much worst bike (Honda) than Rossi and Lorenzo (Yamaha).

THIS!
And why isn't he always smart? Lack of experience. That is why it would have been better that he drove F3 and GP2 for a year of 2 or 3. And then go to F1.
The guy has definitely talent, i was very impressed last year in this Toro Rosso. But since he is a driver for Red Bull Racing, he has a car in which he can compete with Ferrari's, Mercedes and his team mate. What did not help is that he won the first race. He achieved a high point immediately.
Since he started racing in karts, he has experienced only a very steep career. Too steep in my opinion. Next year Lance Stroll enters F1, also a very young driver.
Btw: remember the first year of Romain Grosjean. Or the early years of Patrese?

 

[Deleted member 130869]

Btw: remember the first year of Romain Grosjean. Or the early years of Patrese?

It is very important to be self-critical and strive to improve by accepting faults when they are adequate. Max is talented, far more than his father, and his aggressiveness in driving brought some excitement. But maybe he got too much of his dad perceived arrogance and can't discern some excellent things from some rookie faults.

 

[Erwin Greven]

When i hear interviews of him on Dutch TV he admits mistakes. For instance his pit error in the US GP.
Maybe he is now in a phase that every upgrowing teen experiences at some moment: When do you decide to follow your mentor or do you follow your own intuition.

 

[Deleted member 130869]

There is always the next race to prove you've embraced and learned from the experiences.

 

[gamer19]

Btw: remember the first year of Romain Grosjean. Or the early years of Patrese?

Yup, or Maldonado's early years.
Those in between 2011-2015.


Yeah, I'm joking but on a serious note... that's really F1 classic - young and fast driver arrive, often beat his team mate and everyone is critical about even tiny things he do. Maybe I'm not a fan but at a same time I'm not blind either. I love racing and even more - overtaking. And can't say that he doesn't deliver. Just... I would really like to see, here and there, some real sportsmanship.
We have Button, he could be fast as anyone (beating such a big names as his team mate Hamilton in 2011 season and often Alonso in these two last years) but he's always a gentleman on track.
It's possible.

 

[Erwin Greven]

Will come. But it will take time.

Oh, and look at the stats between Alonso and Button. Average starts and finishes in 2015 and 2016.
Only in 2015 Button scored 16 points against 11 of Alonso. But the av starts and finishes of Fred were better. In 2016 Alonso wipes Button away.

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

Let me throw this into the mix.

Moving in the braking zone, gets a race ban. While Max hasn't done something this bad, it again shows stewarding inconsistencies and the FIA need to change

 

[Erwin Greven]

This is the crash i pick as an example of how dangerous Max' move could have been.

 

[Andy 'Mars Bar' Graham]

This is the crash i pick as an example of how dangerous Max' move could have been.

And I think that he should of been punished for it as it counts as dangerous driving. While it wasn't a rule as such, Stroll did it and got a race ban for dangerous driving

Agree to disagree?

 

[LacSlyer]

Max hasn't done anything that Senna or Schumacher didn't do a lot worse before and people remember those drivers pretty well. When he has deliberately taken someone off to win the title or put his teammate into the pitwall then there will be something to criticise.

Reducing the other driver's space is just a part of racing and it's a shame that there is so little wheel-to-wheel racing in F1 these days that people forget what it is all about.

Let's be realistic though. Hamilton and Vettel both were widely criticized in their younger years for how they drove and behaved. They received penalties and criticism for it and they both came out better for it. Acting as though Max should be immune to this while arguably committing worse incidents at times is ridiculous. Grosjean behaved similarly, was penalized, and he matured through it and became a better driver for it. Vettel was penalized this year for a move similar to what Max did in a previous race, yet only Vettel is penalized. Just because Max has talent doesn't mean he should be allowed to drive as erratically as he has, especially when it's risking other drivers' safety.

 

[fortyfivekev]

Let's be realistic though. Hamilton and Vettel both were widely criticized in their younger years for how they drove and behaved. They received penalties and criticism for it and they both came out better for it. Acting as though Max should be immune to this while arguably committing worse incidents at times is ridiculous. Grosjean behaved similarly, was penalized, and he matured through it and became a better driver for it. Vettel was penalized this year for a move similar to what Max did in a previous race, yet only Vettel is penalized. Just because Max has talent doesn't mean he should be allowed to drive as erratically as he has, especially when it's risking other drivers' safety.

Grosjean style first lap misjudgements are a very different thing from what Max has done so far. I am not pretending he is perfect but I really think it is just down to inexperience and trying to get a better result than the car deserves.

Vettel deserved a penalty just for his attitude at the weekend. Calling Alonso an idiot, swearing at Charlie, complaining about drivers holding him up even though they were ahead of him in the race and moving under braking. Ferrari sacked Alain Prost for a lot less.