PC1 Let's give SMS a little credit here

[Damage Inc]

pCARS is a good sim, with flaws admittedly (which are not hidden and are discussed all over the internet), but is more or less 100% feature complete unlike other recent releases such as AC, R3 and I believe RF2 was not feature complete when released (although stand to be corrected). Xbone flaws are a mystery to all WMD members as we had nothing to do with that version at all. I believe SMS should get some credit for being a small team and releasing a complex game across 3 platforms (unlike the others mentioned) and as I say more or less feature complete.

It's not to everyone's personal tastes but tell me what is?

 

[David O'Reilly]

Nice way to keep SMS in the headlines "damage inc" ... Your arguments are invalid since you have been proven time and again to be working for SMS... Get out of here TROLL ... Go troll another forum!

Are you the same guy that doesn't agree that 100% means 100 out of a potential 100?
Edit...

 

[Radu Oros]

I also learned that the nay-sayers are irrelevant. They did not affect a thing except my blood pressure at times. That makes me very happy. When you are faced with people who seem hell bent on destroying everything you're trying to build, it can be frustrating, but in the end, it's extraordinarily gratifying that they didn't matter at all.

People are trying to destroy what they are trying to build? I haven't seen that. All I've seen was people giving out reviews and opinions about the game, without any constraints and fear of saying the negative things about pcars and its bugs. Because while it was in the production, heaven was being fed to people, but in the end it was just earth.

 

[SnappyDEe]

I mean that Shift2 was bling+simcade driving model, so pcars can definitely qualify as Shift3 as the driving model was unconvincing and inconsistent....that said, they've probably sold 3-5x their base target, so it's a little bit silly assuming I'm trying to damage SMS's rep, especially as Ian Bell and I exchanged a number of PM's and he was eloquent and courteous towards me{unlike many other SMS underlings, lol}.

People need to take a chill pill IMO, the fact is, I give props to any PC sim that has any merit and have been involved in gigantic threads promoting these games, however, when it comes to simcade games pretending to be sims, I simply want to voice my view that the underlying physics and communicative ffb are really what determine a true sim, and arguably could be used to distinguish the best sim cars from the rest.

Real cars don't have feedback issues with their wheels and their physics model is 100%, so it seems natural to me that we start at the ground level, ie, the driving and the control method used to drive to differentiate sim from simcade/arcade.

Also, why is simcade such a nasty word?.....are you suggesting there's no middle ground, that we only have arcade or sims, obviously that's silly, and that's why I think simcade is an important and appropriate term and shouldn't carry such negative connotations, for example, if you're a younger person and you grew up believing that GT2/3/4/5/6 etc was a sim, upon finding out that it was actually a simcade, do you automatically stop playing/enjoying it?

Btw, I just tonight reinstalled FVA and Netkar pro, and I doubt the whole process took more than 30mins, including calibrating my wheel, so I do find it odd and bordering on crazy that pcars requires hours upon hours of fiddling to bash the ffb into shape.

Now just in case anyone thinks I have a bias against pcars, well despite my love for netkar and FVA, I'm also of the view that we're better off describing AC as simcade, but that hasn't stopped me from knocking up 100's of hrs driving time, so I can accept a game as simcade and still play and recommend it just as long as the person enquiring isn't after something along the lines of rf2/iracing hardcore sim.

You don't have PCars do you?

 

[Micas_WMD]

People are trying to destroy what they are trying to build? I haven't seen that. All I've seen was people giving out reviews and opinions about the game, without any constraints and fear of saying the negative things about pcars and its bugs. Because while it was in the production, heaven was being fed to people, but in the end it was just earth.

That's fair to a degree. Your perception and mine (and others) of how individuals reacted to pCARS during development is obviously subjective. It depends on how much of yourself you've invested (and I don't mean monetarily) in building something, and perhaps some cultural differences in how we interpret the style of language that people use. We believe what we believe.

Speaking personally, my day job is software engineering and in the environment I work in, it's strictly professional. That's why some of the things I've read were so jarring to me, but I can see how you might see it otherwise. Particularly on the WMD forum, expectations were set up front that it was to be a virtual office and so I thought everyone would be professional in the style that I'm used to. It just didn't work out that way. There are many ways to interpret the proper style of posting. Some people thought my interpretation was the correct one, others thought they were 'banned for no reason', and some fell somewhere in the middle. All the while, SMS tried to be all things to all people and I'm not sure how well that worked out. To be sure, it's one of those 'lessons learned' that can help with defining expectations for the next project.

Your view of heaven and earth is true, but I don't see why that's a negative thing. Shouldn't goals be set high, but reality have an affect on reaching them? I judge based on what was achieved, not on what wasn't. I guess that's the software engineer in me, or maybe just a personality trait. I always set my own goals high and rarely reach them. When I do reach them, it's a great feeling. When I don't, it's motivation to put more effort in. That's a good strategy, don't you think? You never know what you can do until you fail at something, because if you don't fail, you're not pushing yourself.

Ultimately, when assessing success, one would take into consideration all the challenges involved. In that respect, pCARS and SMS' performance is stunningly awesome (the "credit" that is the topic of this thread). It gives us a chance to continue on and get better and better. In my culturally biased view, that's the difference between me and and guys like Andy, David, and Bram. I love being part of something and seeing it succeed, even if the product isn't exactly as I thought, or wanted, it to be. I take what it is, and then try and use my tool-set of skills to maneuver it more the way I like in the future. Ian and SMS are going to listen to what I have to say and consider it seriously, and that has nothing to do with money. The other guys will have zero influence. Just call it WINNING I guess.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

So pcars 2 will be a real sim?

 

[SnappyDEe]

So pcars 2 will be a real sim?

Sarcastic rhetorical question from someone who already has a strong opinion against the current title. We get it. You don't believe it is anything more that a "simcade" title.

 

[LacSlyer]

I fully agree, was never defending it per se, just saying SMS shouldn't be singled out for it that's all.

You also don't get the full experience without the WEC license or Porsche or Ferrari, SMS could never delivery everything.

This may not be as relevant to the rest of the thread, but this sentiment from people defending the game as though it's being singled out is getting ridiculous. Just because people have gripes about the game doesn't mean they're singling the game out. Just because other sims have/don't have said features or issues in relation to this game doesn't justify that this game has/doesn't have it.

I apologize if this comes off as a bit harsh, but it's really getting old to see this here and on their official forums every time someone can't actually counter someone's complaint about this game with a valid argument.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

At least it can understeer, lol.
watch as shift3 is piloted around the entire track "off track"....

 

[Jake Fangio]

I always get a little sleepy when David chips in.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I haven't said much about the game, because for all i know it could/might end up being a decent racing game, however, it's a liitle hard to accept this is a proper simulation.

 

[Jake Fangio]

I haven't said much about the game, because for all i know it could/might end up being a decent racing game, however, it's a liitle hard to accept this is a proper simulation.

 

[Rob Every]

Dear God, it's like reading one of those adverts by Google or Facebook employees saying how fabulous, amazing, rewarding, fulfilling their job is.

We get it fella, you love working at WMD, I am sure most employees doing something they enjoy love their job. Sadly that only affects about 5% of the population.

We as consumers can only work off what our feedback is witht he company, what our satisfaction is with what we tried and how we relate to the people involved. My experience of all of these was poor.

That feeling is based on similar titles, other types of game, and that what they do, how they go about their marketing and releases.

This title has had a lot of ups and a lot of downs. I doubt any title in history has had a perfect timescale.

The team have not done anything revolutionary, they have simply made, designed and delivered a racing game. They haven't cured cancer or made VR, or made an immersive, realistic and fabulous simulation. If you can pick out one thing they have done it is chellenging the lazy, weary and boring titles like Forza and Gran Turismo markets on consoles.

That was clearly their intention from the last year or so for when the next gen stuff came out, and is clearly their intention marketing wise as it has sold at a vastly superior level there. its an easier market to please, easier to write for and easier to market and take on the competition.

That is not a format that interests me, and was a feeling I felt from the moment I tried it to the moment I was stopped from trying it.

But, as a marketing and business model it is common sense, just stop trying to tell everyone it is the best things since sliced on every format, because that is why people have it in for you.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Anyone know what the sales figures have been?....i think it's over a mill, but im just guessing. ...

 

[SnappyDEe]

I haven't said much about the game, because for all i know it could/might end up being a decent racing game, however, it's a liitle hard to accept this is a proper simulation.

Tough to say anything about a game you don't have, isn't it?

 

[AndrewBo]

@SnappyDEe
STOP doing this.
Read this post from Bram---> http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/lets-give-sms-a-little-credit-here.106287/page-4#post-2015670

David Ignjatovic was a paid JR.Member back then.
DON'T feed the troll.

 

[Sean Kenney]

This is just weird....

 

[SnappyDEe]

@SnappyDEe
STOP doing this.
Read this post from Bram---> http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/lets-give-sms-a-little-credit-here.106287/page-4#post-2015670

David Ignjatovic was a paid JR.Member back then.
DON'T feed the troll.

Are you a moderator?
Does he have the game now?

 

[Kyle Pearson]

Anyone know what the sales figures have been?....i think it's over a mill, but im just guessing. ...

As far as I have seen, actual unit numbers haven't been released; only percentages (i.e. between platforms).

 

[AndrewBo]

Are you a moderator? Does he have the game now?

@SnappyDEe
I am a member of the RD-Staff, and the global moderator of course.
http://www.racedepartment.com/members/?type=staff
About the game: Read Brams post.
And now for the last time:
Don't feed the troll !

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

As far as I have seen, actual unit numbers haven't been released; only percentages (i.e. between platforms).

What we have a sorta knowledge of is that it is somewhere between 140 and 160k that owns the game on steam.
No idea how many of those actually had to pay the full price though.