PC1 Let's give SMS a little credit here

[Damage Inc]

pCARS is a good sim, with flaws admittedly (which are not hidden and are discussed all over the internet), but is more or less 100% feature complete unlike other recent releases such as AC, R3 and I believe RF2 was not feature complete when released (although stand to be corrected). Xbone flaws are a mystery to all WMD members as we had nothing to do with that version at all. I believe SMS should get some credit for being a small team and releasing a complex game across 3 platforms (unlike the others mentioned) and as I say more or less feature complete.

It's not to everyone's personal tastes but tell me what is?

 

[Damage Inc]

A few WMD investors (the lower ones anyway) have asked about some of the missing Le Mans features including driver swaps and they are being told it's now planned for Pcars 2. That's nice.
That'l be another money spinner or some clever marketing.

So don't get your hopes up Bram. It won't be in DLC or patched in.

Yeah I think SMS wanted to get some sort of driver swap functionality in pCARS but couldn't get round to it in time, there's some Ai behaviour being worked on that didn't make it in either but I think (I hope) will make it in a patch.

Then again doesn't this prove there's no secrecy to pCARS!

 

[Brandon Wright]

Cool one Create a thread and address it http://www.racedepartment.com/forums/gran-turismo-6.134/

Oh, no, that topic has been beaten to death!!

You also don't get the full experience without the WEC license or Porsche or Ferrari, SMS could never delivery everything.

Then they should have not have advertised it in such terms, they should have said something less specific like "....lets you recreate your own version of the 24hr of Le Mans". If it's really being pushed back to pCARS 2 then this is one bit of their marketing that crossed the line into flagrant false advertising, much like Stoner's Pot Palace.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

I fully agree, was never defending it per se, just saying SMS shouldn't be singled out for it that's all.

You also don't get the full experience without the WEC license or Porsche or Ferrari, SMS could never delivery everything.

Well, this is the pCars forum, so, SMS is the discussion point together with the game.

I agree with that, but you don't get the 24hrs experience as you should either. Right now, that marketing, promise, feature, thingy, is nothing more than many games have these days. A chance to drive 24 hours on Le Mans, with changing time of day, and cars that can be somewhat like a WEC field.

 

[ML2166]

Perhaps "Fully absent" should be re-phrased to "Might as well be fully absent"?



Maybe we should ask Ronseal to start making Driving games/sims?

 

[bmanic]

As I have already said before - it might give you the impression that it is easy to drive at the beginning, maybe even easier than other SIMs. But mastering this game is a hell of a challenge.

And quoting opinions of others and selling it as an own opinion - c'mon, buy the game (or maybe visit a friend of yours who obtains it) and (un)satisfy yourself!

Exactly the same "problem" that Assetto Corsa had upon release. So many people calling it simcade (still many people calling it simcade on various forums) just because you don't immediately spin out at a moments notice. However, when you ask these people what kind of laptimes they are doing, they are always off the AVERAGE pace by 5 to 10 seconds. Gives me a good chuckle.

 

[bmanic]

This discussion would have been locked and the participants banned on the project cars forum for being disruptive and for that reason alone it's good that there is an independent forum here at RD (and not just for Pcars) where people can freely discuss both the good and the bad sides of a game.

See.. there you go lying again.

Yet another complete BS. Want me to break it down for you? Or can you spot the lie?

EDIT: Yes, this time I am actually calling you a blatant liar. There's no way you can possibly be this ignorant and make such a statement without knowing you are completely bending the truth. Which begs the question: Why are you doing this? Why are you spewing this kind of BS? What have you to gain from this? Do you have an axe to grind with SMS other than your headbutting with Ian Bell?

 

[Andy_J]

See.. there you go lying again.

Yet another complete BS. Want me to break it down for you? Or can you spot the lie?

EDIT: Yes, this time I am actually calling you a blatant liar. There's no way you can possibly be this ignorant and make such a statement without knowing you are completely bending the truth. Which begs the question: Why are you doing this? Why are you spewing this kind of BS? What have you to gain from this? Do you have an axe to grind with SMS other than your headbutting with Ian Bell?

That's just out of order. And deserves a trip to Simberia.

 

[Rob Every]

Sadly this game does seem to encourage this type of behaviour.

Remember, there was an 80 page thread on this very site about just this type of thing! Nice to see the old girl again!.

Bram is an advocate of most things and a veteran here, but he is obviously a little put out by some of the antics of WMD and SMS over the recent months and let's face it in this games history.

There are just as many issues in every new game that is released. RF2, AC, Raceroom etc etc. But with those titles, for some reason the attitide of those involved is different, more reasoned, just as passionate.

When you consider the antics of this crew with licencing issues, trying to slant lots of forums (and successfully doing it) in their favour to not say negative things, you do see where he is comng from as I am sure they tried it on here too, and then the sort of false promises and just blatantly weid behavious of a man who should really know better as a businessman. Can you blame him?

There is no need simply, just write the game, release it, do your PR, patch it. That's what everyone else does in gameland and your reward will be feedback good and bad from thousands of people, if you resolve their issues they will be thankful, might buy some DLC, might be a cert for your next title.

If you are over aggressive in your approach, needlessly proactive in seeking out negativity on social media, forums and in the gaming press, you are making yourself a target for those who have been targeted rightly or wrongly, and for those who read forums, as you alert them to this behaviour

The game I am sure is fine, it is working well on its intended target, console users, no shock why they got patched first is it? It is the obvious market to aim for.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

See.. there you go lying again.

Yet another complete BS. Want me to break it down for you? Or can you spot the lie?

EDIT: Yes, this time I am actually calling you a blatant liar. There's no way you can possibly be this ignorant and make such a statement without knowing you are completely bending the truth. Which begs the question: Why are you doing this? Why are you spewing this kind of BS? What have you to gain from this? Do you have an axe to grind with SMS other than your headbutting with Ian Bell?

Very mature post. I am on my phone but I'll get back to it for sure. You mind if I back myself up with some excellent examples?

Shame that you have to lower yourself to such abusive language.

 

[Kyle Pearson]

The game I am sure is fine, it is working well on its intended target, console users, no shock why they got patched first is it? It is the obvious market to aim for.

PC got patched first. The recent XBOX1 patch brings the XBOX1 up to 1.3 where the PC has been for weeks. PS4 isn't there yet, but will be soon.

 

[c172fccc]

I agree with you though that David needs to own the sim now before he can pass judgement on it but he is entitled to his opinion and if he still regards it as simcade, but that is his call when he compares it to the others. But to be honest, so what if he does? Others do too (so called alien racers in the clubs). I have heard them say on TS and in the forums here that they find Pcars too easy. I have not agreed with them or said so because I am one of those who struggles with the super sims anyway (remember my requests to allow driver aids ) and I love the fact that I can now push a bit harder in Pcars online races and get a reasonable result.

David can say that he thinks that the game is simcade (Edit: Simcade shouldn't be the word used by anyone when talking about the game since it was and still is aimed to be a sim. We should use word as "a bit easier than real life sim" or "unrealistic sim" or "bad sim", things like that, depending of what you think. Personally, I would call it a "I don't know and I don't care if realistic as soon as it feels right, which it does imo, sim" ). However, calling it Shift 3 is ridiculous, imo. It's difficult (atleast, for me) to take any of his other post on this subject seriously after that.

To me, he souds like someone that doesn't like the game since the beginning and that will never change his mind, whatever happens, but I could be wrong.

 

[Damage Inc]

Then they should have not have advertised it in such terms, they should have said something less specific like "....lets you recreate your own version of the 24hr of Le Mans". If it's really being pushed back to pCARS 2 then this is one bit of their marketing that crossed the line into flagrant false advertising, much like Stoner's Pot Palace.

View attachment 94373

Agreed that's probably the accurate line they should have taken, but I still wouldn't agree it's "flagrant false advertising" as it doesn't specifically state driver swaps. I realise this is semantics, but I truly believe if this was taken to the courts under false advertising it would be thrown out. Anyone who "reads between the lines" of advertising, no matter how justified they feel it is, will never EVER win in a court of law. In fact I think the judge would use the words "common sense" a lot in his statement throwing out the case

But once again I'll state that this is common practise in advertising, do you all believe that anti wrinkle cream actually works! SMS weren't the first and won't be the last, I'm NOT defending the statement, it's misleading I agree. Just that I was never up in arms over the Aliens:Colonial Marines hoo-hah either, guess some people are too trusting. I'm not and never have been.

 

[Damage Inc]

Sadly this game does seem to encourage this type of behaviour.

Yes the negative behaviour.

If you are over aggressive in your approach, needlessly proactive in seeking out negativity on social media, forums and in the gaming press, you are making yourself a target for those who have been targeted rightly or wrongly, and for those who read forums, as you alert them to this behaviour

Sorry but complete nonsense and you are clearly another who thinks that every WMD member is a fully paid up acolyte of Ian Bell and SMS.

 

[Damage Inc]

Well I've said my piece, I'm not defending the LM statement, I think that it is misleading and incorrect for whatever reasons. Just that I don't think it's AS bad as some of you are making out but hey that's clearly because I lick SMSs collective butt apparently . Without reasoned debate then it's pointless being here. The discussion/arguments just go round and round and round and I'm too old for this so bowing out. Hopefully never to return to enjoy your party.

 

[Andy_J]

The discussion/arguments just go round and round and round and I'm too old for this so bowing out. Hopefully never to return to enjoy your party.

Please please tell me that's a promise Damage. Just don't say it and not mean it.

edit: see ya when you re-register with a new name and start racing with us.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

However, calling it Shift 3 is ridiculous, imo. It's difficult (atleast, for me) to take any of his other post on this subject seriously after that.

I mean that Shift2 was bling+simcade driving model, so pcars can definitely qualify as Shift3 as the driving model was unconvincing and inconsistent....that said, they've probably sold 3-5x their base target, so it's a little bit silly assuming I'm trying to damage SMS's rep, especially as Ian Bell and I exchanged a number of PM's and he was eloquent and courteous towards me{unlike many other SMS underlings, lol}.

People need to take a chill pill IMO, the fact is, I give props to any PC sim that has any merit and have been involved in gigantic threads promoting these games, however, when it comes to simcade games pretending to be sims, I simply want to voice my view that the underlying physics and communicative ffb are really what determine a true sim, and arguably could be used to distinguish the best sim cars from the rest.

Real cars don't have feedback issues with their wheels and their physics model is 100%, so it seems natural to me that we start at the ground level, ie, the driving and the control method used to drive to differentiate sim from simcade/arcade.

Also, why is simcade such a nasty word?.....are you suggesting there's no middle ground, that we only have arcade or sims, obviously that's silly, and that's why I think simcade is an important and appropriate term and shouldn't carry such negative connotations, for example, if you're a younger person and you grew up believing that GT2/3/4/5/6 etc was a sim, upon finding out that it was actually a simcade, do you automatically stop playing/enjoying it?

Btw, I just tonight reinstalled FVA and Netkar pro, and I doubt the whole process took more than 30mins, including calibrating my wheel, so I do find it odd and bordering on crazy that pcars requires hours upon hours of fiddling to bash the ffb into shape.

Now just in case anyone thinks I have a bias against pcars, well despite my love for netkar and FVA, I'm also of the view that we're better off describing AC as simcade, but that hasn't stopped me from knocking up 100's of hrs driving time, so I can accept a game as simcade and still play and recommend it just as long as the person enquiring isn't after something along the lines of rf2/iracing hardcore sim.

 

[Radu Oros]

Sadly this game does seem to encourage this type of behaviour.

Remember, there was an 80 page thread on this very site about just this type of thing! Nice to see the old girl again!.

Bram is an advocate of most things and a veteran here, but he is obviously a little put out by some of the antics of WMD and SMS over the recent months and let's face it in this games history.

There are just as many issues in every new game that is released. RF2, AC, Raceroom etc etc. But with those titles, for some reason the attitide of those involved is different, more reasoned, just as passionate.

When you consider the antics of this crew with licencing issues, trying to slant lots of forums (and successfully doing it) in their favour to not say negative things, you do see where he is comng from as I am sure they tried it on here too, and then the sort of false promises and just blatantly weid behavious of a man who should really know better as a businessman. Can you blame him?

There is no need simply, just write the game, release it, do your PR, patch it. That's what everyone else does in gameland and your reward will be feedback good and bad from thousands of people, if you resolve their issues they will be thankful, might buy some DLC, might be a cert for your next title.

If you are over aggressive in your approach, needlessly proactive in seeking out negativity on social media, forums and in the gaming press, you are making yourself a target for those who have been targeted rightly or wrongly, and for those who read forums, as you alert them to this behaviour

The game I am sure is fine, it is working well on its intended target, console users, no shock why they got patched first is it? It is the obvious market to aim for.

People who disagreed with this post like Ian Bell's attitudes (the other SMS chaps seem to have normal dev personality, nothing to point out), and the attitudes of a big part of the WMD members who backed up the game.
Then they also disagree with this post because they agree with silencing people in various forums and only put out the best of the comments, images, and youtube videos. That was only worth the initial sales, after that people woke up and judged things by their own heads, instead of sheeping through.

 

[David O'Reilly]

Yeah I agree my phrasing in my post wasn't the best, but who's is. The jist of what I meant was surely clear?

Although to be pedantic myself on the % issue. Surely if someone tries twice as hard that's 200%?

I feel its worth us nailing this one down for the benefit of our fellow drivers.

if 100% is actually 100 out of 100 and when we accept that 100 is the maximum available effort/performance/number. (if we didnt it would be say 110 out of 110 as maximum)
Then if its out of 100 that is the maximum number.
If someone is actually capable of doubling their effort then their previous effort was only 50% or half the possible level.
So yes its 200% of their previous effort but not 200% of the potential.

So next time anyone says he gave 110%, it means he was previously holding back 10%.

The hardest question is can one give 100% and fuel save?????

 

[Micas_WMD]

I was going to post a new thread in which to gloat entitled "Rich For No Reason", but this thread seems appropriate to comment in.

I agree that SMS deserves more than a 'little' credit. They changed the paradigm of how a AAA title can be created. That's a big deal. And beyond that, the game is a critical and commercial success that exceeded expectations for an indie studio on a low budget. It's selling like a top AAA game, and budgeted like a small iphone app (obviously approximating there), so the ROI is just ridiculous! Yay!

I'm not personally aware of specifics, but I imagine that after having been in crunch mode for a very long time, some of the devs are getting a bit of rest while others are getting patches out. The feature list and implementation is evolving and the game will get a tremendous amount of support. That's a credit to Ian and the staff.

I'm not surprised to see the same people saying the same tired and irrelevant things. I'm sure they think the same of my comments, but whatever. The first one that made me laugh was Bram's claim that 100 devs worked on pCARS because he looked at the dev list on the WMD forum.. you know.. as if all of those guys are working on pCARS and not some other projects that SMS has working. It's that "making things up and claiming them to be true" that is so endearing.

I learned a lot over the last 3 years. One of those is that Ian Bell is one of the most awesome people on the planet. He did so many things for me and the other members of WMD that nobody will know about because he doesn't do a parade of 'how awesome am I?' like I do. He set a course, and delivered. That's a rare things these days. He could simply close down the WMD community and not allow involvement in the next project because SMS can fund whatever they want to do on their own now, but that's not Ian's style. He does, and will do, what he says he will, and that's so awesome for those of us that work for something, and not against it.

I also learned that the nay-sayers are irrelevant. They did not affect a thing except my blood pressure at times. That makes me very happy. When you are faced with people who seem hell bent on destroying everything you're trying to build, it can be frustrating, but in the end, it's extraordinarily gratifying that they didn't matter at all.

**side note** I can imagine 'those people' wondering why I pay so much attention to them and seem to enjoy gloating like mad if I believe they don't matter. The answer is; because it's fun.

So, we ended up with a good sim that's fun to play, had a great time helping make it, and are very pleased with the direction forward from here. We're going to be involved in improving the base game, getting new content out, and then working on the next new project. Some people are having fun contributing in the forums, and some people are having fun doing that and making money too.. it's all good. Heck, if this keep up, quite a few people could end up making their living with Ian and SMS. I know I'm going to keep at it. We'll take the lessons learned from the last 3 years, and do better and better.

So, do your worst, oh ye of Horde! Without you, this wouldn't be nearly as entertaining!

 

[sniper420]

Nice way to keep SMS in the headlines "damage inc" ... Your arguments are invalid since you have been proven time and again to be working for SMS... Get out of here TROLL ... Go troll another forum!