GTC-TC-76 Firebird @ Talladega- Sun 3rd November 2013

[Rupe Wilson]

Server name: 3 RACEDEPARTMENT.COM GTL

Class: GTC-TC-76 Pontiac Firebird TA ( Download )
Track: Talladega Road course ( Download )

See Main Forum for Official Race Time Clock

Car: Firebird TA
Practice start time: GMT 20:00 (20 mins)
Qualification start time: GMT 20:20 (single lap)
Race start time: GMT 20:30 (15 laps)
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Car: Firebird HC
Practice start time: GMT 21:00 (20 mins)
Qualification start time: GMT 21:20 (single lap)
Race start time: GMT 21:30 (15 laps)


Note1: CLUB RACING RULES Click them Please Read the rules.
Note 2: Only default liveries or the liveries that come with the mod please
Note 3: We are using the SIMBIN lobby for this event. See here how to switch lobby
Note 4: Odd Number Sign ups Race1 =Firebird TA/ Race2 = Firebird HC Even number vice versa.
Note 5: We run Super-Pole qualification: You only get a single attempt to set a time
(1 Out-lap + 1 timed lap No In Lap, Press Escape). If you mess it up, tough luck!


Server password: click here
Racing rules: click here

Entry List:

1. Rupe Wilson - Cannot attend
2. Andrew James
3. Calum McLure
   
4. Steve Walker
   
5. Ian Strom
6. Hiroshi Awazu
7. Yves Larose
8. Dmytro Botnarenko
9. Antonio Tavares
   
10. Allan Ramsbottom
    
11. Kjell Eilertsen
    
12. Dave Flower
    
13. Guus Verver
    
14. Roland Warmenhoven
    
15. Driver
    
16. Driver
    
17. Driver
    
18. Driver
    
19. Driver
    
20. Driver
    
21. Driver
    
22. Driver
    
23. Driver

Rules:
If you have not entered the server and driven a few laps with fellow drivers before we go to qually you are too late for that session. Please think of your fellow drivers get out on track with them watch how they drive,
you can't race with guys you have not seen drive.
WE all brake a little different and drive the corners different, get used to how they drive and then we can all race safer.
if you drop out of the server during qually you can return
This is being held in our Club, using Club Rules, and should be driven in that spirit.

 

[Hiroshi Awazu]

Sorry guys but i just wasn't feeling it today. My minds on something else other than the race, had to drop out.

 

[Steven Walker]

Sorry to hear that Hiroshi. Hope everything gets better for you soon.

 

[Steven Walker]

20 mins second practice started.

 

[Guus]

Internet went out Maybe its a good thing, im too hungover to race anyway

 

[Antonio Tavares]

I don't know if we're going to use this track again, but in case we do I'd like to alert to issues that I think ought to be addressed by creating specific rules for this track.

In qualification, it's possible to improve lap time by not braking to turn 1 and going full speed ahead. As its required to press ESC after crossing start-finish line, nothing happens. But the time gain is around 1 full second. I did that myself. After watching first half of the qualifying session and seeing that many drivers were doing it, I went with the flow. The alternative was to have slower cars between me and the front drivers, losing in the infield of first lap any chance of keeping contact with my direct adversaries (judging by practice session times).

But the worst part is that it is also possible to do that in race, and it did happen. In last lap, I lost a position because I had a car glued to my rear that didn't brake for T1 like I did; as a result he was able to cross the finish line in front of me.

In my opinion, this transcends the spirit of Club Racing and real simulation mode that most of us enjoy, and therefore should be addressed in future races not only in this track, but also in others where similar events may occur.

Details apart, race 1 was great, I'd say even epic. I had a memorable close battle with Yves, with many changes of position and great overtakes. One of the best races I've had lately. We finished 2nd and 3rd behind Guus.

Race 2 was not so fun, because after first laps I lost contact with Yves and did all the race alone, finishing 2nd after him. Nevertheless, it's always fun to drive the HC and make an effort to think ahead of the car. It has so much power that when you exit a corner in the infield you better be right away prepared for the next one, or the car will bite you in the arse...

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

@Guus Verver Too bad about your connection, hopefully both that and you are fully restored today xD

@Antonio Tavares I don't disagree with your sentiment, but on the other hand this was a Club Race as you said, which means who finishes 1st and who finishes 2nd is completely irrelevant, keep that in mind if you feel robbed of a victory.
While both you and me can agree to racing this as a simulation of real life for our own sake, it'll be hard for the staff to police everyone else who might have a slightly different approach to the game, who might just play because it's fun, not because it needs to replicate real life.
I mean, if you wanna get nitpicky about it then everybody should be racing using a H-shifter and having to use the clutch and heel/toe to be fast, while in fact you can be faster by using paddles and left foot braking, but this is beside the point of the club and impossible to police.
Ofc making sure that people is braking enough to make that last corner is a lot easier to check and police, but I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle, it's a club race after all.
Anyways, peace!

I had two amazing races, well, at least one....
R1 I got a stop/go penalty for cutting the chicane on the oval part a couple of times. I had been going through there several times without a problem during practice, in 2nd, but at the end I decided to spectate Antonio for a couple of laps and noticed that he was doing it in 3rd, and it looked so fast and easy. Stupid as I am I tried to do what he did, which lead to having too much speed and cutting it as mentioned, cue penalty... ><
Well if that was the end of my misery I'd be happy, problem was I have little experience in GTL pit procedures and even less with penalties, so when I stopped at the Pit Crew guy and the pit board popped up I was a bit confused, I was expecting him to just stop me and then let me go. I sat there staring at the pit board for a few seconds then decided it wouldn't go away by itself, so I hit Esc and hit the throttle..... To my great surprise I found myself staring at a provisional result list listing me as DNF, as it came back to me... DONT EVER HIT ESC WHILE RACING!!!! ><

R2 I had a pretty decent start, had to lift off to not run into the slower people in front, got tapped in the rear and spun off (I guess mis shifting down into 1st after the tap didnt help either xD).
Made a decent recovery and passed a couple of cars, but mostly people who had gone off track
The HC is my fav Sim car so far, I LOVE IT, so even though most of the race was alone and "boring", the car itself made it the complete opposite, especially when the tires started going off

Thanks again to everyone for a splendid evening!

 

[Rupe Wilson]

Well i just assumed all would go flat out over the line in qually and in the race, especially the race as this has been done for months now with now attempt to make the next turn. we often see cars finishing the race in a huge impact in the crash barriers.
i can hold my hands up to this one..
it was impossible to police the last bend, how slow is slow. Once you cross the line the result are there. i can't change them.
And im sorry to say as you did the same as the others in qually, ie. not slowing for the last bend,
i would of thought the same action would be taken in the race.
i can only say sorry that i never posted that you go flat out through the finish line in qually and last lap..

We could start adopting the full sim mode, fixed cockpit view no auto clutch no auto gears
you have to complete your in lap for the result to stand. As kjell has said it all so hard to police and would take too much time.

In a league we have a tougher stance on things. But this is club racing, it should be fun lets not forget this.
Calling someone a cheat in the text is maybe going a bit far...
and we don't want this kind of stuff. "falls under post race finger pointing"..
when lats face you did the same in the qually..
you cant have it both ways...
And to all drivers
You can always pm me or Steven if you have a problem with a race that's what we're here for.
Don't take matters into your own hands.!!

I can only hold my hands up for the confusion and say sorry for not making it clearer in the post.
if this kind of situation arises again its flat out all the way. I will post this if it occurs again.

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

Sorry guys but i just wasn't feeling it today. My minds on something else other than the race, had to drop out.

Sorry to hear Hiroshi, may whatever was bothering you be good now.

 

[Antonio Tavares]

@Kjell Eilertsen

Yes, I agree that in Club Racing having fun is more important than the final position, but yet..it felt "wrong" when I brake for the final corner as I would in a real race and lose a position because the chasing car didn't and instead crashed against the barriers...
Speaking of which, I never liked to crash the car in the end of the race as some do; it's not only unrealistic (I know, this is my personal view...) but it can also cause big lag spikes for the drivers still finishing their race.
We have strict rules regarding some aspects of club racing, in my opinion to keep things as fair and close to real races as possible: not cutting corners by keeping always 2 wheels on asphalt at all times is one of them, and in tracks like Imola, where it's possible to gain much time in the qualifying lap by cutting the last chicane on the first lap, thus entering the qualifying lap with much more speed, specific rules and warnings against have been issued.
I think we can compare Talladega with Imola in this starting line issue. If it's not admissible to use "tricks" in Imola, why should they be admissible here? Think about it, and imagine that we're in Imola. It's last lap, and you have a car chasing you glued to your rear. You go through last chicane normally, but the chasing car cuts the chicane full speed and overtakes your position. For him no consequences, even if it's his 2nd cut warning nothing will happen because it's last lap and he doesn't need to stop and go anymore...would that feel right to you? We can't say "oh it's only a game", can we?

[edit]: Yes, I was doing the chicane in 3rd gear, but I was also braking before the 100mtr mark, otherwise it was difficult to control the weight transfers through chicane without lowering to 2nd gear. When well negotiated, the car would be on the 6000rpm exiting, just 1000rpm bellow max power regime. The chicane was, in my opinion, the most important comer for a good lap time, because it was the fastest corner leading to the longest straight, and all the speed you carry through it would help to reach and maintain top speed (around 7000rpm in 4th gear - with my gearbox) as soon as possible.

@Rupe Wilson

Yes, I know I have crossed the finish line at full speed in qualifying, and I explained why when I admitted to that. But I will also say that it was not something I did to be "smarter" than the others, in fact I did it against my will and beliefs. As I explained, I had been watching the first 5 minutes of the qualifying session, and all the drivers I watched with similar times to mine in practice were doing it. If I didn't do the same, I would probably have slower cars in front of me in the infield (where its almost impossible to overtake) of first lap and lose contact with the first drivers. I know I'd eventually pass these slower cars, but that would mean that after that I'd make 12 or 13 laps alone because the drivers with similar pace as me would be gone already...and the reason we sign up is not to score points for a championship, but to have fun close to drivers with a similar pace, isn't it?

 

[Allan Ramsbottom]

As a fairly new beginner to this racing forum,i can see all the points been made to this issue..this is club racing at the end of the day,its meant to be fun and not to be taken too seriously,of course the rules have to be followed no dout,but it seems competitiveness and hunger to win is in my opinion starting to creep in.. getting on the podium is a great achievment, i no, i,ve had a few in my short time,but on the other hand,to me its about learning,how to try an hone my skills to keep up with a few of the fast chappies,,BUT,saying that.the last few races theres been more fun with the mid pack brigade,than just tear arseing to the front and been on your own..yeh in a league thats what its all about..maybe a little post it for a future race that has this prob might help, but also @Rupe Wilson and @Steven Walker these guys are working there nuts off to give us these great racing nights,so if a minor issue has slipped by em...well......as for last night it was a complete disaster for captain fanatec , but its all a learning curve and...FUN...

 

[Rupe Wilson]

I will take on board all the comments made, and have a chat with Steven about this.
Im sure we can work something out so all parties are happy,

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

I think we can compare Talladega with Imola in this starting line issue. If it's not admissible to use "tricks" in Imola, why should they be admissible here? Think about it, and imagine that we're in Imola. It's last lap, and you have a car chasing you glued to your rear. You go through last chicane normally, but the chasing car cuts the chicane full speed and overtakes your position. For him no consequences, even if it's his 2nd cut warning nothing will happen because it's last lap and he doesn't need to stop and go anymore...would that feel right to you? We can't say "oh it's only a game", can we?

I know I can say "it's only a game", I'd love to win and I have once (but only because Rupe let me and Steven pass him), but it's not that important to me, people are different. I completely agree that rules need to be in place, else it'd be like playing on a public server and I for one would NOT like that xD
Furthermore, I don't disagree to there being a rule like you have proposed, I'd be happy to oblige if there where! But calling Yves a cheater in a race where coming 1st or 2nd doesn't really matter because of something that was not a clearly defined rule beforehand maybe was a bit too much. Now I don't hold it against you, I'm very much looking forward to race with you again, but might be worth considering for future races?

[edit]: Yes, I was doing the chicane in 3rd gear, but I was also braking before the 100mtr mark, otherwise it was difficult to control the weight transfers through chicane without lowering to 2nd gear. When well negotiated, the car would be on the 6000rpm exiting, just 1000rpm bellow max power regime. The chicane was, in my opinion, the most important comer for a good lap time, because it was the fastest corner leading to the longest straight, and all the speed you carry through it would help to reach and maintain top speed (around 7000rpm in 4th gear - with my gearbox) as soon as possible.

Yeah I figured there was a lot of time to be gained from that part, which is why I stupidly tried to copy what you where doing the last two laps of practice, needless to say I had too little time to practice this new approach so it just made things worse for me

 

[Roland]

@Antonio Tavares

Is this a joke??

Are you seriously making an issue out of this, after all that Rupe has had to put up with in the past few months?
He's been hammering on everyone to follow the rules without end, and I fear he did go way past the point he was enjoying having to do that over and over again?
Especially coming from you, a person I held in high regard as one of the club's advocates of play-by-the-rules, I am rather disappointed to see that you have no issue breaking the rules yourself if you see fit.
Remember "no post-race finger pointing"? Remember the 24h cool-down period?? Those are long-standing rules as well, you know!

Instead you publicly make so much of an issue of this, that you put Rupe in a position that he feels the need to actually APOLOGISE for not having every possible friggin' situation covered in a rulebook the size of a bible???
That is just plain crazy dude, come on, you CAN NOT BE SERIOUS!!

Without people like Rupe and Steven this club would have died long ago and you know it! Remember, it's supposed to be fun for the staff as well!

Maybe you need to take a step back and consider if perhaps you're taking this a bit too serious, dude! Especially since you obviously are fast and talented IMO you really don't need this.
You said it yourself, race 1 was Epic, so please, just take a deep breath and move on!

Usually I'm not this outspoken and I would have send you this message in a PM, but - my apologies to the staff for going public as well - I just cannot do it, having read this with increasing aversion...

When I first joined the GTL Club a few years ago, it was all about the drive towards the end, the order in which we got there was of no importance at all! Practicing for a club event? That was something the slower newbies like me sometimes did to be able to keep up with the regulars and close the pack a bit more. For all others it was something you did for a league race maybe, but a Club event, for the experienced guys was about jumping in, having respectful battles and cool overtakes, often even waiting for someone to catch up in order to have even bigger battles. I very well understand that all things change and nothing stays the same, but like Allan mentioned, nowadays the difference between Club and League events seems have faded in terms of competitive attitude.

@ Everyone else

This was a great event for me! I definitely never had such good fun on an oval, EVER. The Pontiacs are great fun to drive, and both races saw me lose the car at least once, but that didn't stop me from having two GREAT battles with Dave, each lasting over half a race I think. In fact, while getting less than 6hrs of sleep really did hurt this morning, I didn't regret staying for R2 for a single second. AWESOME!

So thank you Rupe and everyone else for a really great race night! I loved it!

Hiroshi, I hope you can get your toubles sorted shortly, and for Guus I hope his connection sobers up quickly

CYA on track soon.

 

[Antonio Tavares]

...but it seems competitiveness and hunger to win is in my opinion starting to creep in...

Alan, please don't give a meaning to my words that they never had. First of all, English is not my first language. I think in Portuguese, and then translate the facts as I see them to English. So, what I write may not sound as nice as if it was a member whose first language was English. There are things and expressions in my first language that are very hard, if not impossible, to translate into English, and I know that I would be much more "diplomatic", and sound much nicer, if I wrote in Portuguese. So, let's not create a language barrier...

Second, you couldn't be more distanced from what were my intentions when I referred what happened. It was never about winning or the final position. All I asked was that this issue was addressed and made clear for future races. Rupe already said that he forgot to mention that finish was meant to be full speed, so I think that in future races where this is possible to happen it will be mentioned - problem solved!
The final position is not important to me, Rupe can testify to that. Some months ago I pushed him out a Dijon, causing that he lost some places. One or two weeks later we had a great fight for first position during all race at Le Mas du Clos, and in last lap I was ahead after last corner and cut gas to let him pass and win the race, to compensate him for that previous push. Is that typical of someone with "hunger to win"?

It was never my intention to point fingers here. If that was understood in that way, I say sorry especially to Yves. Like I said, it was a great clean and fair race with him all the way; the fact that I brought here what happened was never meant to point fingers at him but - and here I go saying it again... - to prevent this from happening in future races, whether by creating rules or letting everyone know that finish is full speed against the barriers.
Yves is a fair driver who raced me as a gentleman during the whole race; I'm sure he didn't brake at the end because he thought, without any malice, that I would do the same.

I hope this time I was clear enough to all who think I came here bitching, creating issues or criticizing someone...

 

[Antonio Tavares]

@Antonio Tavares

I am rather disappointed to see that you have no issue breaking the rules yourself if you see fit.

Roland, how can you say I broke a rule if there was no rule in place? I encountered a new situation for which there was no rule and acted as I did in qualifying for the reasons I explained before: I want to have fun and not to win races. Well, of course I want to win races, but fun comes first. And if I hadn't done that way, I'd probably race alone, which isn't much fun, is it?

 

[Kjell Eilertsen]

Just wanna say I don't feel you are bitching, creating issues or criticizing at all, my only gripe was the comment ingame right after the race ended. Btw your english is very good.
Let's put this behind us and not make it a storm in a teacup.

 

[Antonio Tavares]

I agree...

But I did not brought the comment you refer here, and already said sorry (PM) to the driver addressed by it.

 

[Allan Ramsbottom]

@Antonio Tavares,i was,nt reffering to you,what i meant was, in general, club races seem to be getting to the point where the fun factor seems to be diminishing, i apoligise if you took it the wrong way,i,ve had a couple of races where we have had close encounters,and you been the better driver got the better of me.hopefully as i gain more experience we can have some more great close battles..

 

[Antonio Tavares]

Oh, in that case it is I who sould say sorry, Alan. I understood your words as if you were speaking in general, but with "the guns" pointed at me...You see how easy is to misinterpret someone when we read/write from different first languages?

And I'm not so sure about getting the better of you in close encounters...last race in Laguna you managed to be the one making pressure and overtaking in first race, and you were able to defend your position in second...

 

[Warren Dawes]

I'm a bit reluctant to chime in here, but it is an opportunity to add something (maybe helpful?).
Firstly though, I fully understand Antonio's points, your English is very good mate. I also can see the reasons for some of the other posts too, even though I wasn't participating in this event. Wish I was able to .

I too have seen the "competitiveness" level increasing in the GTL Club, and mostly that is not a bad thing, provided the driving is clean. But I've also noticed how Rupe has had to start posting lots of Rules and Regulations for every Event, and the list seems to be increasing. Worse still, he has to keep repeating / reminding drivers of these Rules. It must be a bit intimidating to newer drivers thinking of joining, and no doubt a bit perplexing when we keep stressing how "casual and friendly" this club is. Not to mention the extra workload and stress for Rupe.

What would be more ideal for cases like the topic being discussed here: I'd love to see more (preferably all) drivers on TS, so then Rupe (or whoever is organizing that event) simply has to advise any quirks or advisory notes for the event (eg. track specific things that become obvious) over TS. That way is much easier for him to explain, more easily understood, and may come across less "official". Those of us usually on TS would understand what I mean.
It's amazing how many good friends you make by racing with others while on TS, it really helps to break down any barriers and avoid misunderstandings.
It's also a laugh a minute when we are not actually racing.