AC GT Multiclass @ Bathurst - Sunday 17th October 2021

[Fiberoptix]

Good fun thanks @Interslice. I made a total hash of qualifying due to some brief VR tracking glitches so started from the back. This wasn't a bad thing I ran a couple of AI races beforehand so expect carnage first couple of corners. Not sure how much was the SGP glitch but it came. I gained loads of places just getting a better exit speed onto the first straight then more carnage appeared in front of me, now I am 4th or 5th behind Ernie. He gets hit by a 911 and I got past and behind Fabiano. Sat on his gearbox for a long time but couldn't maximise the straights against the Cayman for a pass. Didn't seem a problem for Ernie who caught back up and past us both fairly quickly. Han you were in my mirrors end of the last long straight, I locked a bit went onto the grass made a re-entry side by side with Fabiano and you were gone.

Most GT3 overtaking for me was OK and I tried to give them space in the areas where it was feasible. Still a lot who dive in and compromise my corner speed but that's the fun of multiclass I guess

 

[Fiberoptix]

For a track like this, there probably needs to be some kind of filter for the top class. Or people who sign up should take it more seriously and make sure they can drive without being a menace before entering the event. Some GT3 cars could barely stay on the track by themselves, let alone safely run through a field of slower class cars

I guess its the rough with the smooth of getting bigger grids though? This club invites beginners, this is a really tough track, then multiclass. I started here a year ago and I was that guy who was off track all the time. I like to think I have improved but only by joining these events week after week to get better. I didn't hit other drivers back then to be fair but my offs were not due to not taking it seriously, I was learning. I have to give others the benefit of the same doubt.

 

[Shed 17]

After the issues off the start line and the T1 incident, I found myself several positions up the grid from my start position. But that was soon to come to an end on the Mountain straight when a 911 that was trying to pass, hit me on the left side causing me to spin across the track and I then was going backwards for what seemed 100 metres or more in front of and hit by most of the field.

Nobody seemed to wait so I was left to pick up the pieces and struggled round at the back with a damaged car, having several more offs on the way. Apologies to Ernie for spinning in front of you in the last laps, maybe I should have packed it in earlier but since joining this community I have yet to have a DNF and was determined to keep going despite it being a nightmare of a race.

So a very disappointing race from my perspective, and reading the comments above I think there are some learnings to be had from this experiment. I had been thinking before this race that an agreed rolling start should be possible if everyone is onboard and understands. I agree with Dmitry that there seemed to be some GT3’s that were driven in a less than desirable way and while my first outing in the GT4 was nothing to write home about, I felt that the combination of the track and cars was always going to cause some incidents. The guys at the front of GT3 (Chris, Dmitry, Aki) really impressed me with their skill at passing over the mountain even though I kept well over to the side they managed their passing at the right place.

But this is what these type of events are about, testing different things and ideas, so many thanks to Brian for organising and well done to the poles and podiums in both classes, I hope I didn’t cause you too many problems in my mobile chicane role last night.

 

[Herlev]

hope it wasn’t my actions that caused any frustration to Lars.

No frustrations here

I've been racing RF2 club races exclusively for the last couple of years, so this was my first time in AC for a long time. Oh boy am I slow in AC
But great fun and definitely not the last AC Club race. Thanks to all the GT3's for keeping it as clean as possible on this track.

 

[davejevons]

I really enjoyed last night. The bi-polar nature of Bathurst makes it really interesting to race on.

I benefitted from the start line chaos and was making my way through the field. Despite feeling confident and relaxed I managed to drop it at the Chase and rather than trying to suqeeze back on and cause chaos, waited for the whole field to go past.

I then got to work my way through the whole GT4 field before the first pitstop. Apologies to @shed17 and @Interslice who I think I accidentally tagged in the early stages while making my way through the GT4 field from last. I was still learning where the GT4s were braking and misjudged a couple of those moves.

Having worked my way back to 12th a pitted and really looked forward to a new set of tyres. My inexperience showed and I didn't realise 'No compound change' meant it would leave the same tyres on rather than not change the tyres. The second half o fthe race was super sketchy using the single set of softs which were bright red.

For a track like this, there probably needs to be some kind of filter for the top class. Or people who sign up should take it more seriously and make sure they can drive without being a menace before entering the event. Some GT3 cars could barely stay on the track by themselves, let alone safely run through a field of slower class cars

That was quite possibly me. Sorry if I disrupted anyone's race who I haven't apologised to. A significant part of it was my mistake for not changing tyres at the pitstop.

I'm not going to force anyone's hand, but I think there was probably a few GT3 guys tonight who would have had alot more control over a cayman and benefited more from running it. There is alot to learn on the mountain!

Yeah, fair point. Having raced the track earlier in the week I thought the knowledge would be good prep but perhaps that was optimistic.

 

[Interslice]

After the issues off the start line and the T1 incident, I found myself several positions up the grid from my start position. But that was soon to come to an end on the Mountain straight when a 911 that was trying to pass, hit me on the left side causing me to spin across the track and I then was going backwards for what seemed 100 metres or more in front of and hit by most of the field.

Nobody seemed to wait so I was left to pick up the pieces and struggled round at the back with a damaged car, having several more offs on the way. Apologies to Ernie for spinning in front of you in the last laps, maybe I should have packed it in earlier but since joining this community I have yet to have a DNF and was determined to keep going despite it being a nightmare of a race.

So a very disappointing race from my perspective, and reading the comments above I think there are some learnings to be had from this experiment. I had been thinking before this race that an agreed rolling start should be possible if everyone is onboard and understands. I agree with Dmitry that there seemed to be some GT3’s that were driven in a less than desirable way and while my first outing in the GT4 was nothing to write home about, I felt that the combination of the track and cars was always going to cause some incidents. The guys at the front of GT3 (Chris, Dmitry, Aki) really impressed me with their skill at passing over the mountain even though I kept well over to the side they managed their passing at the right place.

But this is what these type of events are about, testing different things and ideas, so many thanks to Brian for organising and well done to the poles and podiums in both classes, I hope I didn’t cause you too many problems in my mobile chicane role last night.

Sorry to hear you got a bad hit paul. Please remind them by PM that the golden rule still applies between classes. Give me a shout if there is any issues.

The nature of bathurst, it's always going to claim a few victims. The last GT3 race here I ended up facing the wrong way in the twisties after skyline. Had to let the whole field past before i could drive back up to skyline to u turn around... In last place with 30 seconds to the next car. Unforgiving! Part of the attraction for me though! I could all fall to pieces at any moment!

 

[Kek700]

It was defiantly not a finger point at GT3, have very little to complain about in that regards, it was more of a , are they going to go for the gap.
All the GT3 I came across where most respectful. In the end it was “me” that sent “me” into the barriers
We may be slower but we are on the limit here, anything can send us into a wall, the GT3 cars are just cruising behind us.
It is in the heads of the GT4 drivers, they do not know how desparate you are to get by.
I would like to think that once the mountains are there you cannot overtake until the long straight, you may very well have that on your mind but I do not know that.
Other tracks this problem is very minor, wide tracks , easy left or right overtake possibilities.

Now being in a GT3 car, which I nearly was, now my perspective changes.


So my conclusion is that mixing two classes will always have its difficulty, especially on a circuit like Bathurst .
It is something we have to live with if we want the pleasure of two or three classes racing together
There is no solution.
In the end had a really fun but stressful
race with everyone here.
I always have my best races when the S**t hit the fan and I have to work at the race instead of knocking off the laps.

 

[Fiberoptix]

After the issues off the start line and the T1 incident, I found myself several positions up the grid from my start position. But that was soon to come to an end on the Mountain straight when a 911 that was trying to pass, hit me on the left side causing me to spin across the track and I then was going backwards for what seemed 100 metres or more in front of and hit by most of the field.

Nobody seemed to wait so I was left to pick up the pieces and struggled round at the back with a damaged car, having several more offs on the way. Apologies to Ernie for spinning in front of you in the last laps, maybe I should have packed it in earlier but since joining this community I have yet to have a DNF and was determined to keep going despite it being a nightmare of a race.

So a very disappointing race from my perspective, and reading the comments above I think there are some learnings to be had from this experiment. I had been thinking before this race that an agreed rolling start should be possible if everyone is onboard and understands. I agree with Dmitry that there seemed to be some GT3’s that were driven in a less than desirable way and while my first outing in the GT4 was nothing to write home about, I felt that the combination of the track and cars was always going to cause some incidents. The guys at the front of GT3 (Chris, Dmitry, Aki) really impressed me with their skill at passing over the mountain even though I kept well over to the side they managed their passing at the right place.

But this is what these type of events are about, testing different things and ideas, so many thanks to Brian for organising and well done to the poles and podiums in both classes, I hope I didn’t cause you too many problems in my mobile chicane role last night.

Paul, very bad luck mate. I don't know how to share a video on here from AC (as the first 40 seconds of this race are wild) but this screenshot is what I drove through as you spun. I saw the 911 run onto the grass and come back into you, how I made it through the carnage was sheer luck but makes for interesting viewing if you have the replay.

 

[Shed 17]

Paul, very bad luck mate. I don't know how to share a video on here from AC (as the first 40 seconds of this race are wild) but this screenshot is what I drove through as you spun. I saw the 911 run onto the grass and come back into you, how I made it through the carnage was sheer luck but makes for interesting viewing if you have the replay.

Thanks Tim, for some reason I haven't captured the start on replay but yes., it was a wild ride. But I'm not making a fuss over it, one of those things and all sorts happening in those first few seconds to lots of people.

You were quick though, you and Brian have found the magic in the Maserati to get into the 17 second bracket, I couldn't get anywhere near a good pace, well done!

 

[Shed 17]

Sorry to hear you got a bad hit paul. Please remind them by PM that the golden rule still applies between classes. Give me a shout if there is any issues.

The nature of bathurst, it's always going to claim a few victims. The last GT3 race here I ended up facing the wrong way in the twisties after skyline. Had to let the whole field past before i could drive back up to skyline to u turn around... In last place with 30 seconds to the next car. Unforgiving! Part of the attraction for me though! I could all fall to pieces at any moment!

Thanks Brian, I can't see the replay to confirm what happened, maybe the 911 was out of control on the grass but one of those things, as my management said when she asked how I got on " it's only a game, get over it!"

 

[demetri]

I guess its the rough with the smooth of getting bigger grids though? This club invites beginners, this is a really tough track, then multiclass. I started here a year ago and I was that guy who was off track all the time. I like to think I have improved but only by joining these events week after week to get better. I didn't hit other drivers back then to be fair but my offs were not due to not taking it seriously, I was learning. I have to give others the benefit of the same doubt.

It's OK to be learning, but you gotta be realistic. Starting your learning process at one of the toughest circuits in the world in the top class might not be a wise choice. There's no shame in picking up a slower GT4 car for that

 

[JamKart22]

Thanks Brian, I can't see the replay to confirm what happened, maybe the 911 was out of control on the grass but one of those things, as my management said when she asked how I got on " it's only a game, get over it!"

The 911 got on the grass trying to overtake and then slid in to you when coming back on the track. The driver hasn't driven with us before, never posted in this forum and maybe wasn't aware of 'the rule'. So worth a pm in case he joins again?

 

[HF2000]

Very disappointing event for me. And it looked so good with my first pole position and surviving the mess with the start. But avoiding the scrimmage in the beginning also turned out to be the beginning of my misfortune. As I was able to pass many GT3 cars before T2, I had to deal with them again later when they wanted to overtake me. In the middle sector, one of them took my inside while I was on the race line and forced me off that line, so I had to brake at high speed into a corner which went completely wrong. I hit the wall really hard. After that the car behaved differently, more understeer, more snap oversteer and lower top speed. That oversteer caused me to hit the wall again and then other GT4's could easily overtake me. When I went off for the third time in the chicane on the hill and hit the wall again, I was so frustrated and fed up that I didn't want to go any further.

I don't want to blame anyone, but I struggle to understand why certain drivers of the faster car class don't anticipate the slower car to turn in to stay on the racing line. Of course there is a gap in certain parts of a track that is next to the race line, so it looks like you can overtake there, but you have to be aware that the other car is going to turn in on the race line. If there is a gap next to the racing line, it does not mean that the car in front of you will leave room to pass. They drive there because that is the fastest line to drive.

I think we all need more experience with this multi-class combination. In the Audi/Mazda multiclass it also took the participants some time to deal with these situations. So I hope it will go that way too.

 

[JamKart22]

Very disappointing event for me. And it looked so good with my first pole position and surviving the mess with the start. But avoiding the scrimmage in the beginning also turned out to be the beginning of my misfortune. As I was able to pass many GT3 cars before T2, I had to deal with them again later when they wanted to overtake me. In the middle sector, one of them took my inside while I was on the race line and forced me off that line, so I had to brake at high speed into a corner which went completely wrong. I hit the wall really hard. After that the car behaved differently, more understeer, more snap oversteer and lower top speed. That oversteer caused me to hit the wall again and then other GT4's could easily overtake me. When I went off for the third time in the chicane on the hill and hit the wall again, I was so frustrated and fed up that I didn't want to go any further.

I don't want to blame anyone, but I struggle to understand why certain drivers of the faster car class don't anticipate the slower car to turn in to stay on the racing line. Of course there is a gap in certain parts of a track that is next to the race line, so it looks like you can overtake there, but you have to be aware that the other car is going to turn in on the race line. If there is a gap next to the racing line, it does not mean that the car in front of you will leave room to pass. They drive there because that is the fastest line to drive.

I think we all need more experience with this multi-class combination. In the Audi/Mazda multiclass it also took the participants some time to deal with these situations. So I hope it will go that way too.

Even the top drivers don't know how to drive multi class

 

[Fiberoptix]

Forgive the poor quality, I have never created a video of the screen before but this is the view from the back of the grid during the first 60 or so seconds.

 

[HF2000]

Even the top drivers don't know how to drive multi class

That's a good example of my statement!

 

[Kek700]

@HF2000 I understand your frustration, it was bad for most, I was hit off the circuit three times and hit the wall about three or four times with passing GT3 traffic. I was right on your tail and got clobbered by a gt3 car, still managed to get a reasonable shot at first place, especially as Brians tyres were shot.
Managed a checky pass on the governor, (@Interslice ) punting him into oblivion.
Sometimes things go for you sometimes they just do not, a lot of this is mixed class racing on a very tight circuit.
Par for the course as they say.
Never was I hit on purpose, and as with you when I watched from your driving seat in the replay, you were just unlucky, initially, luck went your way then luck did not.
The reason I don't bother much with qualifying, the race will decide the outcome, the problem with being the fastest qualifier is it tends to put you into a mindset. it can only go downhill from there on.

 

[davejevons]

[snip]
[/snip]
....I think we all need more experience with this multi-class combination. In the Audi/Mazda multiclass it also took the participants some time to deal with these situations. So I hope it will go that way too.

Yes. It took a while for the Audis to gauge the speed difference with the MX5s.

Some other things which helped, were @HF2000 providing helpful hints at the start about where good and bad overtaking places might be and racers swapping classes to experience it from the other side.

 

[demetri]

Forgive the poor quality, I have never created a video of the screen before but this is the view from the back of the grid during the first 60 or so seconds.

Incredible Moses moment!

 

[Interslice]

Thanks to all who join the madness that is the mountain!

What better time and track to try a rolling start!? Hope to see you all there

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/gt-rolling-start-multiclass-nurburgring-gp-sunday-24th-october-2021.209577/