Buying advice please - Next Level v3 Motion Platform

[MarkR]

I'm looking for some advice and thoughts of other owners or people with good knowledge of the product, please.

I always said I'd buy myself a motion simulator if I could afford one and had the room available. Well, that day may have arrived. I'm impressed by what I've seen of the Next Level v3 Motion Platform

This seems to meet all my criteria:

+ Limited space requirements, I don't have room for a huge sim rig but this seems compact enough to work.
+ Works with Oculus Rift VR, that fixed head position setting solution is impressive
+ Great support and regular updates from the developers
+ Available in the UK
+ Works with my current Thrustmaster wheel and accessories.
+ Sub £3k for the full setup, I'm not a pro racer I'm not looking for a practice simulator this is just for fun so the cost/fun balance has to be right.

So help me do the man maths! Is it worth it?

Is there another similar product I should also look at? It would need to be reasonably compact, work with VR, available in the UK without too much hassle and in the same £3-5K price range.

Is there anywhere I can try one or even better several of the systems in the UK?

 

[HugoB]

@HoiHman before I got my dbox system, I did reach out to Next Level about attaching my v3 to the chassis with dbox. They did get back to me and said it should be OK to use both but they have never tried for themselves. The engineers felt that is should be fine but then again I didn't want to be the guy to try it out first and find out it damaged the v3 which would be a big expense to send it back to Poland for repair. So long story short I sold off the v3 when I got the dbox system but also I still have my GS4 seat

@Magiashkii I’m very interested in your view on the matter NLV3 vs D-BOX as you are the only one I know that has experience with both. Would you say they offer similar quality of immersion? Is it maybe more like different kind of immersion but still both high quality, or is there a clear winner in the category immersion? Are you using VR? Are both good in VR or do you have a clear winner as well? I’m still getting the NLV3 for the time being I think, until there is a GS-5 available, then maybe I’ll upgrade to D-BOX + GS-5. But I’d like to know if it’s so much better, I might have to shovel up a bit more cash.

Also: how do you rate the tactile on the D-BOX? Can it compete to a transducer setup? I see you’re still using a full transducer setup yourself, did you switch off tactile on the D-BOX or are you using both?

What didn’t you like about the NLV3, did the D-BOX solve that for you?

I’m sorry to rail you so much with these questions, but you’re the only person I’ve seen that could answer them from real experience and not just theory.

 

[HoiHman]

Guys what i'm trying to say is that each system has it's advantages and drawbacks. Combining multiple systems and let each system do only what that system does best.

- NLMv3 : change of direction, acceleration, braking
- Tactile : road bumps, engine vibrations, crashes
- GS-4 : G-forces simulation during the entire corner (doesn't matter how it is, you will keep feeling it)
- D-box : suspension movements, road surface

If you mount all these together and for example have acceleration effects enabled in all 3 systems being the GS-4, D-box AND the NLMV3, you will get ruff ride and a sensory overload.

It would take a lot of tuning, but i'm pretty confident this might lead to the ultimate motion simulator.

@Rodney without starting a riot

Once you have tried a GS-4 you will understand that it's main strength is feeling the G-force simulation throughout the entire corner, not matter how long it is.
Even though i'm a very experienced tactile users (as you know), i'm completely in the dark how it would be remotely possible to accurately simulate G-forces with vibrations (using tactile)

 

[anton_Chez]

Shipping notice received for my GT1...

Been a good month wait for it to leave the warehouse but I should be building early next week. Can't wait to find out what extra parts I'll need to order and wait for to hold me up......

Hopefully I have accounted for most things to at least get the basics set up. Also, found a buyer for my old cockpit! Was going to throw it out!

 

[Mr Latte]

Guys what i'm trying to say is that each system has it's advantages and drawbacks. Combining multiple systems and let each system do only what that system does best.

- NLMv3 : change of direction, acceleration, braking
- Tactile : road bumps, engine vibrations, crashes
- GS-4 : G-forces simulation during the entire corner (doesn't matter how it is, you will keep feeling it)
- D-box : suspension movements, road surface

If you mount all these together and for example have acceleration effects enabled in all 3 systems being the GS-4, D-box AND the NLMV3, you will get ruff ride and a sensory overload.

It would take a lot of tuning, but i'm pretty confident this might lead to the ultimate motion simulator.

@Rodney without starting a riot

Once you have tried a GS-4 you will understand that it's main strength is feeling the G-force simulation throughout the entire corner, not matter how long it is.
Even though i'm a very experienced tactile users (as you know), i'm completely in the dark how it would be remotely possible to accurately simulate G-forces with vibrations (using tactile)

No riot happening friend, I would need to sit in a GS4 but I understand what it does and it has limited/restricted movement. I am not saying it does not add to the immersion but what you are missing is that you relate tactile to what Simvibe offers as this is what you have continued to use.

Simvibe, if you look at its effects descriptions, is very much focused on bumps and suspension not G-Force based effects. SSW, however, offers both and also with good functioning wheelslip effect. What I would say to you is that with audio we are not limited to mechanical movement. Also with audio-tactile we can completely alter the felt sensation or characteristic for the g-force being applied. I have completely different sensations for cornering, to braking to acceleration. Yet each can be felt when working together. Deceleration is not just active under braking, it brings superb feeling even letting off throttle, or a track element that slows the car (grass/gravel) which in turn works also with bumps or surface based effects using the tactile. All this gives the user a selection of choice in how any effect is portrayed and control of its range or gain. Such can even be applied to different cars if desired for entirely different feelings. This especially so with SSW using waveforms and not using what Simvibe has in limited tone generation to create effects. Simvibes potential isn't close but SSW has needed a lot of discovery and testing. A path I seem to be on with very few others.

A GS4 pushes into physical muscle and tissue. To me that is unnatural as I am not being poked by a physical object in a real car or indeed when circling a roundabout.

My point is a GS4 will not produce a level of energy for example during corner loads strong enough to shake my brain inside my skull (if desired). Yet I can do that with my tactile or have vibrations so deep and floaty that in some respects can even give the impression of motion. To have this level of energy using whatever frequencies we desire for the preferred felt sensation. A major benefit is also that this can be applied in both the pedals and seat body regions. It's not limited just to a seat so we have the possibility to much better encompasses the whole body. More bone conduction, muscle tissue and nerves being activated then registers in the brain as more immersion.

What I will say is, I continue to advance in my own testing, knowledge and research (part of a hobby in itself) but I truly doubt you can achieve the level of g-force sensation I have been applying via these methods and with high-end tactile. Its experimental yes, but people are really going to enjoy these effects with others that I bring. The key is having more user feedback to help advance the direction things should go and help understand regards various levels of tactile hardware what types of waveforms and frequency combinations work best. Meaning the most basic to the most advanced can bring added immersion benefits to whatever a user has.

What would be interesting is for @Magiashkii when I have files ready and finalised is to compare on his own rig the power of 4 LFE being used compared to a GS4 for representing G-Forces. Both could work great when combined but each are entirely different approaches.

My point is VR3 owners here can have quite amazing G-Force sensations with their own personalised feel, and unique differences without a GS4. The level of tactile hardware and installation they have will determine how good these are portrayed.

Lastly, Simvibe & GS4 via Sim Commander4 is a lot of controls to go over and adjust. Many not even properly understood. SSW with supplied and pre-made effects that users can select at will for different felt experiences comes with only simple sliders needing adjusted.

 

[HoiHman]

Shipping notice received for my GT1...

Been a good month wait for it to leave the warehouse but I should be building early next week. Can't wait to find out what extra parts I'll need to order and wait for to hold me up......

Hopefully I have accounted for most things to at least get the basics set up. Also, found a buyer for my old cockpit! Was going to throw it out!

Simlabs is quite popular nowadays. They are only a 20 min drive from my home, but i have never visited them. I already have a 80/20 rig for a lot of years and it's really great.

@Mr Latte sounds great, i probably have to give SSW a try.

 

[Mascot]

Shipping notice received for my GT1...

Been a good month wait for it to leave the warehouse but I should be building early next week. Can't wait to find out what extra parts I'll need to order and wait for to hold me up......

Hopefully I have accounted for most things to at least get the basics set up. Also, found a buyer for my old cockpit! Was going to throw it out!

Excellent news mate!
My P1 arrived today so I've been busy.

The NLV3 brackets works as planned. All the holes even line up perfectly..! *phew*
So very glad I mounted the NLV3 between the side rails so it sits lower. It was well worth the effort.

I almost killed myself carrying the NLV3 with the Sparco mounted to it from three rooms away. I think the combined weight was about 40kgs. Dropping it into the rig single-handedly was NOT easy, but I wanted it done. Somehow managed to get it in with around 5mm clearance either side.

People aren't joking when they say these 80/20 rigs are solid. There is ZERO movement or flex. Can't wait to try it now but it's not finished and I have a football match to watch.

 

[HoiHman]

@Mascot that's the best looking mounting solution for the NLMv3 i have seen untill now.

I remember the unit being extremely heavy too, imagine lifting it with a GS-4, 4 mini LFE's and an big LFE attached.

 

[HugoB]

Excellent news mate!
My P1 arrived today so I've been busy.

The NLV3 brackets works as planned. All the holes even line up perfectly..! *phew*
So very glad I mounted the NLV3 between the side rails so it sits lower. It was well worth the effort.

I almost killed myself carrying the NLV3 with the Sparco mounted to it from three rooms away. I think the combined weight was about 40kgs. Dropping it into the rig single-handedly was NOT easy, but I wanted it done. Somehow managed to get it in with around 5mm clearance either side.

People aren't joking when they say these 80/20 rigs are solid. There is ZERO movement or flex. Can't wait to try it now but it's not finished and I have a football match to watch.

Congratulations ! Thanks for sharing, looks very sharp! Your solution with the brackets should be an official accessory from Sim-Labs for the P1 Good to hear the rig is so solid. Are you going to run it in VR? Is that a Buttkicker Gamer 2 there under your seat? Did you use the mount from NLV3, does it work well? Will you be adding a transducer to your pedals too? I hope you opload a picture when the ‘shifter side rail’ is mounted to see if the seat stays clear of it?

So excited for you, have fun dude!

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Congratulations ! Thanks for sharing, looks very sharp! Your solution with the brackets should be an official accessory from Sim-Labs for the P1 Good to hear the rig is so solid. Are you going to run it in VR? Is that a Buttkicker Gamer 2 there under your seat? Did you use the mount from NLV3, does it work well? Will you be adding a transducer to your pedals too? I hope you opload a picture when the ‘shifter side rail’ is mounted to see if the seat stays clear of it?

So excited for you, have fun dude!

@Mascot looks great.

The side mount was not something I’d even considered as being an issue. Worst case scenerio you’d just have to shorten it.

 

[anton_Chez]

@Mascot the mount looks tidy AF...... Well done mate, I wish I could do something similar with mine, but the GT1 is much wider and I think spacers of that length may not be the best for it. Again, only way to know is when it gets here. I can always change the mount later, run it 'my' way until I can source the brackets and then change it over.

I also need to make sure that the mini lfe, that I plan to mount behind the seat, doesn't hit any of the surrounding profile so getting it low like that might be an issue for it. They are surpisingly small now that I have them in hand, so if your gamer 2 works well, it might just be the same for the mini. Different method of mounting though.

Not long for me now, hopefully this time next week I have finished photos and we can compare mounting solutions. I have a feeling that I will end up like yours should the space be sufficient for everything I have planned.

Great job mate!

 

[Steve D]

My P1 arrived today so I've been busy.

The NLV3 brackets works as planned. All the holes even line up perfectly..! *phew*
So very glad I mounted the NLV3 between the side rails so it sits lower. It was well worth the effort.

Hello Mate,

That mounting solution looks very smart and I'm likely going to do the same to lower my platform in to my P1.

Can I ask whether you used the nylon washers or some barrier tape between the angle and top of the P1 to stop it marking? I know you had concerns re. possible flex if using the former but I would imagine that based on how secure that solution is, that won't be an issue, even when you use the V3 in anger!

BTW build is looking good! Little tip for you, which might be useful if relevant. If you need to move the rig around, put some hard floor sliders underneath the feet. Makes movement dead easy and avoids damaging the feet or flooring.

Cheers,

Steve

 

[Mascot]

Hello Mate,

That mounting solution looks very smart and I'm likely going to do the same to lower my platform in to my P1.

Can I ask whether you used the nylon washers or some barrier tape between the angle and top of the P1 to stop it marking? I know you had concerns re. possible flex if using the former but I would imagine that based on how secure that solution is, that won't be an issue, even when you use the V3 in anger!

BTW build is looking good! Little tip for you, which might be useful if relevant. If you need to move the rig around, put some hard floor sliders underneath the feet. Makes movement dead easy and avoids damaging the feet or flooring.

Cheers,

Steve

Hi Steve,
I didn't use any nylon washers or barrier tape in the end - I just ensured that the underside of the brackets were smooth and the holes deburred. I meant to apply some silicone spray to both surfaces but in my haste to get it installed I totally forgot. The whole seat & NLV3 assembly maybe weighs 40kg but it was still relatively easy to tweak the position fore/aft by loosening the fixings and lifting the lot slightly just to take the weight off. It's not something I'd want to do regularly though, and nowhere near as convenient as using a seat slider if a lot of different people of varying heights use your rig. Getting in and out of the P1 is a breeze so you shouldn't need to slide the seat to do that. I've moved the vertical wheel deck supports further away from the seat for better access clearance and brought the actual wheel deck itself closer. I can basically step into the rig now so my seat won't be moving again. The fore/aft seat adjustment with my bracket is really only intended for initial fine tuning to set the ergonomics, but it is possible to use it as seat slider if required, it's just not as quickly as easily as with a traditional mechanism. There were no marks on the rails from my positional tweaking but I guess if you were sliding it back an forth a few times a week then marks would probably eventually show.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for the tip re moving it on hard floor, btw.

 

[Mascot]

Congratulations ! Thanks for sharing, looks very sharp! Your solution with the brackets should be an official accessory from Sim-Labs for the P1 Good to hear the rig is so solid. Are you going to run it in VR? Is that a Buttkicker Gamer 2 there under your seat? Did you use the mount from NLV3, does it work well? Will you be adding a transducer to your pedals too? I hope you opload a picture when the ‘shifter side rail’ is mounted to see if the seat stays clear of it?

So excited for you, have fun dude!

Thanks, I'm really pleased with how it's worked. I did send Darko at Sim Lab the sketches and some early photos a couple of weeks ago and he said they were looking at different solutions and hope to be able to offer something soon. I actually had a set of six little cast brackets included in my shipment (different but similar to the corner brackets) and spacer tubes, obviously for mounting the NLV3 but up above the level of the side rails. It was nice of Sim Lab to include them even if I didn't end up needing them.
To answer your questions:
I only race in VR. I simply cannot go back to 2D any more for sim racing, it just feels empty and lifeless and.... shite by comparison.
Yep it's a BK Gamer 2, and the mount works well. Make sure to fit the bracket BEFORE your seat, and it'll still be awkward to fit anyway. I might remove the BKG2 from its current position and mount it to the rear rail of the P1 because I think I need to move the seat back slightly to stretch my legs out more, but i might have the movement I need at the pedal end. Lots of tweaking still to do.
No plans for a pedal transducer at the moment, but plans can change.
I'll be sure to post more pics. My Fanatec shifter arrives today and I've still got to mount the monitor using the Sim Lab brackets (a 50" panel - should be interesting...).

 

[Mascot]

@Mascot the mount looks tidy AF...... Well done mate, I wish I could do something similar with mine, but the GT1 is much wider and I think spacers of that length may not be the best for it. Again, only way to know is when it gets here. I can always change the mount later, run it 'my' way until I can source the brackets and then change it over.

I also need to make sure that the mini lfe, that I plan to mount behind the seat, doesn't hit any of the surrounding profile so getting it low like that might be an issue for it. They are surpisingly small now that I have them in hand, so if your gamer 2 works well, it might just be the same for the mini. Different method of mounting though.

Not long for me now, hopefully this time next week I have finished photos and we can compare mounting solutions. I have a feeling that I will end up like yours should the space be sufficient for everything I have planned.

Great job mate!

Cheers matey.
You'll definitely be able to mount your NLV3 in a similar way, it'll just need some extra consideration. My short time with 80/20 has been a whirlwind romance - it's awesome! Meccano for grownups. If your delivery is anything like mine then you'll have a ton of extra fixings (like... millions, some of which I don't even know what they do lol) and a load of spare extrusion. The channel nuts are brilliant, each with a sprung ball-bearing to keep them in place before locking down and designed so they can be locally popped into the channel without the need to slide them in from one end. A totally brilliant design that makes modding a breeze.

Quick thoughts based on yesterday's build while it's fresh in my mind:
Watch Barry's P1 build video for some tips (I know yours is a GT, but the principles are the same). There are NO instructions..!
The extrusions are all pretty clean but if you've got a compressor, blast air down all the channels (including the ports) to remove any remaining metal particles or traces of swarf. I did this and STILL dropped swarf all over the house. If no compressor, then brush the channel grooves and tap each piece vertically to empty swarf out. It's time well spent and you won't want to get any metal dust near your NLV3.
Put the rubber feet on as soon as you've assembled the main chassis - it'll be hard to do later when everything is attached.

80/20 is an absolute joy to use. I took my time and thoroughly enjoyed the build. It took a loooong time but it flew past with Zeppelin blasting from the stereo.

Have fun mate! Looking forward to hearing how it goes. Hit me up with any queries and i'll do my best to answer.

 

[anton_Chez]

@Mascot Sounds like you've had fun which is the main thing, especially when it's the part BEFORE the actual part that's meant to be fun! I have a funny feeling that you got those brackets for the V3 because of me.... I actually ordered 6 of them spare with the intention of using the Jeremy mount method. Then after speaking with Darko regarding some extra profile to mount the seat to the actual platform (bridging those damn holes) I think he must have clicked that maybe other V3 owners may need the same things. If your order was after mine, and you mentioned you were a V3 owner to him, it makes sense. I also remember mentioning spacers because we were discussing the width of the chassis and what would be required if the drawings on the website were current (they were not).

Good to see they are forward thinking like that. I really hope that they adopt your method as an optional extra. With the GT1 chassis the vertical (long side) part of the mount will need to be significantly shorter to account for the 80mm difference in height compared to P1, but it still should be doable. I think once all is said and done, the height that our seats will sit at despite different mounting methods, will be nearly the same. I am going to try my way and if it a) doesn't work or b) works but I feel it could be better, then I am going to order that piece in the measurements to suit the GT1 and use your method. The only problem I have with that will be the space left between chassis and V3 might be a little large for spacers. With enough profile, I may be able to just run a length on each inside piece and mount the bracket to that. That would account for 80mm of space.

I am looking forward to the build of this one. The best part is that I am downstairs (as opposed to across the hall from the bedroom) and can work well into the night should I feel like. I tend to not sleep when there is something I want to do! I do have a compressor, it's actually right behind me down here so that should be easy done.

I am currently tuning the Mini LFE buttkickers here mounted to an old coffee table in an effort to fill gaps before the chassis arrives! They are a little picky with frequencies so have taken me half the day to get comfortable with how they perform. I have a mount in mind for the GT1 (similar to how I had my Aura's mounted to the old rig) and hope that the feeling is well captured in the seat and pedals. Tactile adds another dimension to your motion, so I doubt it will be long before you're heading down that road, too! If you do, hit me up and I'll show what I've done with mine.

 

[Mascot]

It sucks balls having new toys and not being able to play with them..! I still haven't fired up my motion platform as I'm still tinkering with the P1. The monitor mount I bought from Sim Lab isn't any use to me and my 50" screen - it sits too close and too low down with it for my personal taste. I don't race in 2D (ugh! it's horrible!) but do all my other non-racing gaming in my rig so don't want the steering wheel to overlap the screen, and don't currently have a QR solution for removing the rim. In the end I used some of the spare extrusion to fashion a more suitable (and absolutely rock-solid) mount instead, so the custom made one has ended up being a total waste of €180. I wish I'd trusted my gut and not ordered it, but the free postage bundled with the main rig swayed me into taking the risk. If I'd have known how much spare profile and how many spare fixings I'd get with the rig, and how easy 80/20 is to adapt, I'd have just left it to sort out during the build. Ah, such is life.

Got a great deal on some Fanatec V3i pedals yesterday so will be fitting them next week, unless they turn up tomorrow by some strange miracle. Got a new Fanatec shifter to install too. The tinkering continues!

 

[Neil Farren]

@Mascot Very clean looking build. Seeing yours makes the wait for my GT1 to arrive even worse! Really like your screen mounting solution. I already have a screen mount from Sim Lab I got two years ago when I used to run triples. I now only game in VR or single 4K 40" monitor so your solution has got me going back to the drawing board on how I will mount my monitor.

 

[Mascot]

@Mascot Very clean looking build. Seeing yours makes the wait for my GT1 to arrive even worse! Really like your screen mounting solution. I already have a screen mount from Sim Lab I got two years ago when I used to run triples. I now only game in VR or single 4K 40" monitor so your solution has got me going back to the drawing board on how I will mount my monitor.

Thanks! In that case I'll take a photo from the rear to show the guts of it. I'm using the 200x200 VESA plate but the monitor is also resting on the horizontal arms for added (totally unnecessary, probably) strength. It could be fitted this way without a VESA plate I guess, just using 80/20 mounting brackets into the VESA ports on the back of the monitor.

 

[anton_Chez]

Nice to see it all coming together. Yes, rarely does a build go according to plan and until you get everything in hand it's hard to know if it's all going to work. I am surprised that your V3 mounting brackets worked so flawlessly without you have the chassis there to know exactly what would work and what wouldn't. That was awesome.

Speaking of tinkering, all the waiting for my cockpit to get here has had me looking into direct drive wheels (OSW). Too much time to read and not able to drive to keep me occupied! I just bought a brand new V2.5 to replace my (what I thought was faulty) V2 and now I am looking into going full DD. I have the chassis for it, after all......

I plan to keep all of my existing rims which is a massive plus (I will have 3 of them once the McLaren GT3 one arrives) so I won't need to worry about paying extra for rims and button boxes. Just a simple adapter for 100 odd quid should have the base accept all Fanatec rims as if it were a V2.5. Downside is I have 2 DSD button boxes with the specific V2 mount that I will need to reconfigure to be mounted to the 80 20 profile, if possible. Oh, and the $$$ as well....

Someone talk me out of it before I pull the trigger....

 

[Mascot]

Nah, just do it!

My V3i pedals arrived, brand new and sealed. Only one slight problem: they are vanilla V3s.

Grrrrrrrrrrr...

Toot toot..! All aboard the eBay merry-go-round!