AMS 2 | Beta Launches Feb 28th - What Are You Looking Forward To?

[Paul Jeffrey]

For Reiza backers, the much anticipated AMS2 Beta will go live this February 28th - what are you most looking forward to with the new game?

Now remember folks, only those are are early backers have access to the full list of cars and tracks confirmed so far for release - so please don't go and flood the comments section with "I'm looking forward to driving the xxx around xxx" - that kinda spoils the surprise for everyone else (and we are supposed to keep these things secrete anyway!).

However without going into content specifics, I'm sure we can all think of plenty of things to talk about to keep ourselves excited between now and the 28th!

So, who's excited for a first look at AMS 2???


Automobilista 2 will release as early beta on February 28th, with a full release scheduled for March 2020.

Excited about the game? Spread that enthusiasm at the Automobilista 2 sub forum right here at RaceDepartment!

 

[Fabione71]

more than 32 cars?
Max opponent number?

 

[azaralamouri]

I don't get a lot from video need a more lively car
Cockpit looks kind of dead for movement ...tight setup i guess

I wait for jimmy video

I speculate that they don't make the movement 3D in cockpit to save graphics performance for VR users, as no one will be looking inside the car when driving.

 

[Terry Rock]

Having never owned PC2, so I can't speak to it's handling characteristics.
The GM video does offer me encouragement in it's tiny peek to potential areas of comparable handling to the much loved AMS.
I would have liked to see a few more cars for a better reference...even in his early beta preview.
I do feel quite a bit of optimism with regard to the traction events in the video.
The ability to have the back-end break loose and catch the impending slide with the correct inputs is something a lot of sims still get very wrong...even some famous ones.
If you've ever done any kind of competition driving or karting, you'll know exactly how it feel and how rewarding it is to control.
Reiza seems to be one of...if not the outright best studio at implementing this feature.
I looked at the off-track excursion and noticed something nice there as well.
The frequency of the chassis oscillation was very natural.
It had mass and was not needlessly bouncing up and down all over the place...something else a lot of sims get wrong.
Putting a wheel in the grass had the affect you'd expect as well.
Lots of good little cues....for me anyway.

 

[sonicviz]

Reiza confirmed they are totally revamping the gamepad feedback along the lines of AM1.
Once I figured out how to work around some UI issues I could configure it to drive properly, and it's fine without assists as is, just missing some feedback juice. Assists will be handy for some twitchier cars though.

Having played a few more hours today it's way better than PC2 (73 hours on that), even in its current state. Lighting model is very nice.

 

[MarkR]

Well, I'm impressed and I think many of you will be too, I've run about 40 laps in the Caterham 620R at Brands Hatch and AMS2 Beta already passes my twin tests of:

1. I could lap this car all day and have as much fun as a during real track time.
2. The wheel feels like the real car and the way the wheel moves is like the real car.

These laps were run using the Fanatec DD2 with CSW Forumla V2 wheel and I'll try out the Thrustmaster setup later. As per their request, I've written my thoughts rather than share any video (though the game already looks superb imo) and I've used the same combination as gM to avoid any content spoilers.

There are a couple of caveats, the tyres are stone cold at the start of the free practice session and they took a good 5 laps or so to really get up to temperature. The 620R is tricky to drive on cold tyres and this could easily lead to someone getting the wrong impression of the feel and feedback if they only run a couple of laps (even a 1:36 lap was difficult to achieve for the first 3 laps, I put that here as a reference point).

The second caveat, unless I've missed it there is no way to adjust the setup in free practice. That said, once the tyres are warm it really doesn't matter that much because the 620R drives superbly well as it is.

Now for the hype. With the tyres warm the feedback and feel through the wheel is absolutely superb. The track detail and bumps really shine through. The ability to hook up the front end and feel the grip through the corners matches the real 620R perfectly. If the 620R starts to slide the reason why is well communicated, push on understeer and the wheel goes light as the front tyres lose grip. Equally, oversteer is natural and can, for the most part, be easily caught and corrected (though get a rear wheel on the grass on the throttle and yes the car can snap) . Now with everything warm running consistent sub 1:30 laps with a best of 1:28.3 is an absolute joy and 20 laps pass in no time. The 620R feels superbly connected to the road, there is both a sense of weight and feeling of grip from all 4 tyres. I've owned and driven many versions of Caterhams on track including the 620R and AMS2 Beta already feels as close to the real thing as any game so far, it is that good. When the car starts to oversteer that familiar quarter-turn of the wheel is usually enough to regain traction and hold the line. The one issue that appears to remain from PCARS2 is the strange low-speed spin for no clear reason at Druids until recently ACC also suffered this problem so it seems to be something many games struggle with. The game already runs superbly at full 4k locked to 60fps (i9/1080TI).

Because PCARS2 comparisons are inevitable I ran the exact same car and scenario back to back in PCARS2. Yes, of course, AMS2 looks like PCARS2 but do not be fooled they could not feel more different through the wheel - and I say this as someone who generally (standing water aside) enjoys PCARS2. Again I was using the DD2 wheel with the latest PCARS2 FFB settings. Jumping into the PCARS 2 620R there is a lack of weight and the car feels like it is on the surface of the road rather than connected to it. It's far more difficult to feel the level of grip from the road even with fully warm tyres. I struggled to lap consistent 1:31.3 laps and there were many frustrating laps, it was not an entirely enjoyable experience by comparison. Chasing the lap time feels like having to drive around the issues in the game, it isn't natural. Catching slides is far more difficult (to near impossible) and hand movements on the wheel are much more game-like in my view. The PCARS2 WR for the 620R at Brands is a 1:27.7 and I'm not usually challenging the top 10 yet in AMS2 lap times close to that felt achievable due to the greater feeling of grip and ability to trust the car to behave as I'd expect. Played back to back it's clear AMS2 is a generation ahead in terms of FFB.

How close is AMS2 to ACC in terms of steering feel? For me, the latest ACC wheel feel is truly lifelike. AMS2, with warm tyres, is certainly close to that same feeling and kerbs can be used realistically (which took ACC a few months to achieve). If Rieza are able to improve the low-speed spin and occasional rear snappiness that both feel like minor PCARS2 issues I think AMS2 will match ACC for wheel feel.

I'm going to try VR next and from what I've seen so far I'm highly optimistic because PCARS2 VR already runs superbly well.

 

[Caramel]

So I backed this game with Level 5 back when it was available, how do I get access to the beta for AMS2?

 

[Spinelli]

1:20, 6:39 (and more)
I see this a lot in Project Cars videos. Driver turns the wheel and the car almost just keeps going straight as if it's super, duper incredibly slow to respond to wheel movements or as if the front brakes are completely locked (which they're not) preventing the car from turning.

I've seen this phenomenon often in Project Cars but I don't believe it's something to do with the ISI portion of the physics engine because I've never noticed it in non-Project Cars ISI-physics games therefore, I'm guessing, it must have something to do with the Project Cars tyre model or possibly parts of the ISI physics engine Project Cars devs changed (I'm guessing PC tyre model).

Sloppy turn-in as if the vehicle wants to understeer at incredibly low steering angles. Then sloppy, unnatural grip/slip and grip transitions throughout the rest of the corner.

4:26 (throughout video)
Still has that ISI physics engine phenomenon (also still present in PC) where, once the oversteer reaches it's furthest point/angle (the end of oversteer "phase 1"), the slide suddenly snap/ends rather than the vehicle reacting to driver throttle & steering inputs as the oversteer lessens. This makes it seem like phase 1 of oversteer (angle increasing) is fine and fairly natural, the 2nd phase (oversteer angle neither increasing nor decreasing) is unnatural as it hardley exists, and phase 3 also being unnatural as it happens so quickly and therefore for such an extreme and unnaturally short amount of time. This is one of the odd physics phenomena (of a few) in the ISI/rFactor physics engine dating back to the EA/ISI F1 games before even RF1 came out.

4:43
Strange oversteer where you get the rear to snap out but you just sort of hold the wheel at centre or slightly passed center in order to hold the slide rather than actually applying opposite lock (good drivers can also exploit this to get unnaturally overly extreme turn-in). A decent amount of opposite lock was applied at the very end but not for the majority of the slide.

11:40, 4:26 (throughout video)
The 3rd phase of oversteer looks very similar to PC1, PC2, and the ISI physics engine in general meaning the 3rd phase of oversteer hardly exists. Once the oversteer's 1st phase (oversteer angle increasing) finishes, the oversteer just looks like it "magically" ends in a very, very quick, short-lasting way.

An example is 11:40. Nice slide, nice angle, nice amount of opposite-lock but once the 1st phase of oversteer is finished, the slide just suddenly disappears, just ends (in a bit of a very ISI/RF-ish snap in this particular case - but not always). If watching the car from the moment phase 1 ends, you'd be fooled into thinking the oversteer was a very tiny slide even though it was actually a nice slide with a fairly decent angle.


There are still very unnatural ISI-ish and/or Project Car-ish states of grip/slip and transitions of grip (understeer, oversteer, understeer-to-oversteer, etc.) situations.

To me, this seems exactly like what I imagined it to be: not some revolution in the simracing world but a nicely refined version of PC2. It seems like it is to PC2 what AMS1 is to RF1. Improved PC2 it is but when you're exploring the physics, the grip/slip transitions, pushing the car, etc. then the fundamental behavior of the physics engine (including tyre model) of which the game is based on becomes apparent no matter how good a developer may be at "refining" the cars entered into that physics engine.


Still buying it though but just pointing out that, despite Reiza's great refining - and they're GREAT at it - I think it's a glorified and improved version of PC2 like AMS1 is to RF1. It's not some leap in the simracing scene in terms of physics (or anything really) but rather a nicely refined version of PC2 like AMS1 is to RF1. It will be fun as heck!


Now...about that career mode........???...........

 

[alexSchmurtz]

So I backed this game with Level 5 back when it was available, how do I get access to the beta for AMS2?

See this thread at the official Reiza forum, the very last paragraph in particular if you are a backer. But hurry up, this is the last day to get in the beta!

 

[Danny O'Neill]

I would love to have a go at this but definitely not at the $119 price point (which comes out at around £93), I do own the original and I still play it from time to time but this is way too dear for me, I'll just have to wait until next month and pick up the basic version.

 

[traind]

Well, I'm impressed and I think many of you will be too, I've run about 40 laps in the Caterham 620R at Brands Hatch and AMS2 Beta already passes my twin tests of:

1. I could lap this car all day and have as much fun as a during real track time.
2. The wheel feels like the real car and the way the wheel moves is like the real car.

These laps were run using the Fanatec DD2 with CSW Forumla V2 wheel and I'll try out the Thrustmaster setup later. As per their request, I've written my thoughts rather than share any video (though the game already looks superb imo) and I've used the same combination as gM to avoid any content spoilers.

There are a couple of caveats, the tyres are stone cold at the start of the free practice session and they took a good 5 laps or so to really get up to temperature. The 620R is tricky to drive on cold tyres and this could easily lead to someone getting the wrong impression of the feel and feedback if they only run a couple of laps (even a 1:36 lap was difficult to achieve for the first 3 laps, I put that here as a reference point).

The second caveat, unless I've missed it there is no way to adjust the setup in free practice. That said, once the tyres are warm it really doesn't matter that much because the 620R drives superbly well as it is.

Now for the hype. With the tyres warm the feedback and feel through the wheel is absolutely superb. The track detail and bumps really shine through. The ability to hook up the front end and feel the grip through the corners matches the real 620R perfectly. If the 620R starts to slide the reason why is well communicated, push on understeer and the wheel goes light as the front tyres lose grip. Equally, oversteer is natural and can, for the most part, be easily caught and corrected (though get a rear wheel on the grass on the throttle and yes the car can snap) . Now with everything warm running consistent sub 1:30 laps with a best of 1:28.3 is an absolute joy and 20 laps pass in no time. The 620R feels superbly connected to the road, there is both a sense of weight and feeling of grip from all 4 tyres. I've owned and driven many versions of Caterhams on track including the 620R and AMS2 Beta already feels as close to the real thing as any game so far, it is that good. When the car starts to oversteer that familiar quarter-turn of the wheel is usually enough to regain traction and hold the line. The one issue that appears to remain from PCARS2 is the strange low-speed spin for no clear reason at Druids until recently ACC also suffered this problem so it seems to be something many games struggle with. The game already runs superbly at full 4k locked to 60fps (i9/1080TI).

Because PCARS2 comparisons are inevitable I ran the exact same car and scenario back to back in PCARS2. Yes, of course, AMS2 looks like PCARS2 but do not be fooled they could not feel more different through the wheel - and I say this as someone who generally (standing water aside) enjoys PCARS2. Again I was using the DD2 wheel with the latest PCARS2 FFB settings. Jumping into the PCARS 2 620R there is a lack of weight and the car feels like it is on the surface of the road rather than connected to it. It's far more difficult to feel the level of grip from the road even with fully warm tyres. I struggled to lap consistent 1:31.3 laps and there were many frustrating laps, it was not an entirely enjoyable experience by comparison. Chasing the lap time feels like having to drive around the issues in the game, it isn't natural. Catching slides is far more difficult (to near impossible) and hand movements on the wheel are much more game-like in my view. The PCARS2 WR for the 620R at Brands is a 1:27.7 and I'm not usually challenging the top 10 yet in AMS2 lap times close to that felt achievable due to the greater feeling of grip and ability to trust the car to behave as I'd expect. Played back to back it's clear AMS2 is a generation ahead in terms of FFB.

How close is AMS2 to ACC in terms of steering feel? For me, the latest ACC wheel feel is truly lifelike. AMS2, with warm tyres, is certainly close to that same feeling and kerbs can be used realistically (which took ACC a few months to achieve). If Rieza are able to improve the low-speed spin and occasional rear snappiness that both feel like minor PCARS2 issues I think AMS2 will match ACC for wheel feel.

I'm going to try VR next and from what I've seen so far I'm highly optimistic because PCARS2 VR already runs superbly well.

First, I must say that AMS2 is clearly on track to be as good as AMS1 but with far superior graphics, features and UI. Maybe better feel than AMS1 eventually... several cars already feel like they may be eclipsing the AMS1 handling feel but my testing has been limited.

The 620r though... I was not so enthusiastic. It felt good to me under the limit but the issue seems to be with the tire at the limit. My, admittedly quick, test showed that provoking oversteer was difficult unless you were in 1st or 2nd and really had the wheel cranked quite far left or right. When those conditions weren't present the 620r's back end moves a bit but is never in any danger of breaking grip at the rear. This dynamic was present on a lot of cars in PC2 so I think it is, perhaps, something within the engine.

Importantly... this was not the case with the stock car or the super v8, so if it is an engine related issue Reiza have solved for it with other cars.... so no need to worry about it. This is beta and fine tuning varies across cars at this point.

I would like other impressions on this subtle but important handling feel. The cold tire feel described by the post I quoted above shouldn't impact this.... cold tires are more prone to oversteer yet I felt this unnatural resistance to oversteer from lap1.

 

[Zuffenhausen Weiss]

Lol, rf2 fanboy alert. With max settings and every shader mod in the world those graphics are still garbage. Real cardboard car maybe. Though physics and ffb wise it’s a fine sim. Just be honest with yourself... you’ll be much happier.

That was quick, accusing me of being a rF2 fanboy. Well you never see us praising it for it's graphics.

You do what every ACC fanboys do, single out rF2 for it's graphics, praise ACC for the graphics yet how many of us can afford a 2080Ti capable PC; if I can afford it, then I can afford to bankrupt myself on a brand new Ferrari F8 - I simply do not want to be one of those who spend over $2k on a rig and I got a life outside sim "driving"

Am I going to buy? Yes, I have played it, in fact I downloaded from some sites and tell you what, it hasn't encourage me to buy it plus it my PC (i5 6500, GTX 1060) can't handle the power and it struggles to handle rF2 too. Also, not too much a fan of those GT3s; yes, they are fast IRL but like most modern race cars, dull to drive on AC and PC2 with sub $500 wheels.

 

[UMC 22]

Guys, please keep things civil. No more name-calling, accusations or provocation ok? There is absolutely no need for it, as we should all be mature enough to have a discussion without resorting to that kind of nonsense. I don't want to have to start removing posts or locking the thread, so keep it civil.

 

[BP]

Hey fellow beta testers...Beta v2 should be out as of 18 minutes ago but I don't see steam updating mine. Tried restarting steam...anybody got the update yet?

Edit: Nevermind, it just started downloading...hopefully the next AMS beta threads don't descend into madness like the last one...off to do some testing!

 

[Stuart Thomson]

Quite an interesting video dropped last night - a first drive of AMS2 by Yorkie065, who is apparently an SMS developer.

He was never going to smash PCars2 to bits, but I think the phrase "grudging admiration" covers his reaction.

Worth a watch, I feel.

 

[MarkR]

Tl;dr: Beta 2: Looks like PCARS2, has steering feel and FFB to match ACC, stunning & smooth VR.

AMS2 Beta 2 is another good step forward, the wheel feedback, in particular, is even more detailed and accurately weighted. I'm told this is as much to do with car setups as any changes to the FFB.

On the DD2 with CSWv2 wheel I'm using these settings for all cars and haven't found any need to adjust:
Gain 27
Low Force 5
FX 35
Spring 5
(On DD2 FFB 35, Sensitivity Auto (DoR))

This gives me what I believe is a lifelike weight in the wheel and all the track surface feel I get in a real car on track. At this Gain I can turn the wheel smoothly and naturally. I know the official Gain is up to 50 but this makes the wheel weight excessive for me and I find the movement no longer smooth or like any car I've ever driven. Personal physical size and strength probably play a part in this too.

As before you'll need your wits about you on cold tyres straight out of the pits especially with cars like the Caterham Academy on narrow road tyres but once they are warm the car hooks up exactly as I'd expect.

Lots more cars have working temp dials etc so the game looks far more complete.

The few minor handling issues in Beta 1 - some snappiness and occasional low-speed spins have been vastly improved in Beta 2. The Stock Car V8 is now much more predictable, it's still quite a tail-happy car but in a much more natural way and closer to the Super V8 in terms of handling and performance.

3 jaw-dropping cars that, imo, really show the game at it's best: Caterham Supersport, Formula Classic Gen 3, P1 Metal Moro Honda. All 3 are easy to drive at 8/10, come alive at 9/10 and communicate when the limit has been reached perfectly allowing slides to be caught and lines to be adjusted with wheel, throttle and brakes.

Just lapping and experiencing the different handling of the cars is addictive so running with the improved AI will have to wait until later.

I already put AMS2 alongside ACC in terms of the intuitive and natural feeling of the FFB.

 

[AlexHeuskat]

I already put AMS2 alongside ACC in terms of the intuitive and natural feeling of the FFB.

My feelings : AMS2 FFB in this state is not even close to ACC or rF2 and sadly not at the AMS 1 level...too much suspension oscillation issues even with the formula cars....no feeling when braking....to be honest i think it won't be at ACC level or rf2 level even with update (we will see it's my opinion)

AI is the train from pCars 2.

Graphics are the pCars 2 one from 2017 with AMS trees (good)...nothing close to ACC or even rF2...which has a more professional render....AMS 2 colors are like pCars 2, a cartoon.

ACC at 4k epic is a pure beauty, a visual art....AM2 at 4k ultra is like pCars 2 from 2017...not a revolution after ACC.

 

[Cote Dazur]

How many out there have tried all their sims with no FFB whatsoever .....it is enlighting

Amen, brother.

 

[Copef1]

My feelings : AMS2 FFB in this state is not even close to ACC or rF2 and sadly not at the AMS 1 level...too much suspension oscillation issues even with the formula cars....no feeling when braking....to be honest i think it won't be at ACC level or rf2 level even with update (we will see it's my opinion)

AI is the train from pCars 2.

Graphics are the pCars 2 one from 2017 with AMS trees (good)...nothing close to ACC or even rF2...which has a more professional render....AMS 2 colors are like pCars 2, a cartoon.

ACC at 4k epic is a pure beauty, a visual art....AM2 at 4k ultra is like pCars 2 from 2017...not a revolution after ACC.

My feelings: AMS2 beta2 FFB is better than ACC, not quite to the level of rFactor 2. I spent a long time driving the Brazilian Stock Cars last night, and the FFB communicates very well what the car is doing through my DD1. The thing is, FFB is such a subjective thing. What one person likes another hates. For instance, I think the FFB in ACC is decent, not as good as rF2, or now AMS2, but still good. To contrast this, I have seen Gamermuscle say several times that he thinks the FFB in ACC doesn't communicate the fact that the tires are about to go over the limit at all. The other thing with FFB is the fact that at this moment there are a ton of different feedback wheels on the market, and they all communicate FFB differently, not to mention the fact that there is a lot of different variables in the software for each wheel. I know from personal experience that it took a lot of trial and error to get my G27, Fanatec CSW V2, and now my DD1 to feel the way I wanted in every sim I own, and I have most of them, including AC, ACC, rF2, Raceroom, iRacing, AMS2, AMS1, Pcars2, rFactor 1, GTR2, etc, etc, etc, all the way back to GPL.

Don't get me wrong, I think there are some issues with AMS 2 Beta2, I just don't think that FFB is one of them. Also, I am confident that Reiza will sort them out. In my opinion AMS2 is already in a better state, in a lot of ways, than ACC was when it launched, and Kunos has sorted that sim out nicely in the months since then.

 

[AlexHeuskat]

My feelings: AMS2 beta2 FFB is better than ACC, not quite to the level of rFactor 2. I spent a long time driving the Brazilian Stock Cars last night, and the FFB communicates very well what the car is doing through my DD1. The thing is, FFB is such a subjective thing. What one person likes another hates. For instance, I think the FFB in ACC is decent, not as good as rF2, or now AMS2, but still good. To contrast this, I have seen Gamermuscle say several times that he thinks the FFB in ACC doesn't communicate the fact that the tires are about to go over the limit at all. The other thing with FFB is the fact that at this moment there are a ton of different feedback wheels on the market, and they all communicate FFB differently, not to mention the fact that there is a lot of different variables in the software for each wheel. I know from personal experience that it took a lot of trial and error to get my G27, Fanatec CSW V2, and now my DD1 to feel the way I wanted in every sim I own, and I have most of them, including AC, ACC, rF2, Raceroom, iRacing, AMS2, AMS1, Pcars2, rFactor 1, GTR2, etc, etc, etc, all the way back to GPL.

Don't get me wrong, I think there are some issues with AMS 2 Beta2, I just don't think that FFB is one of them. Also, I am confident that Reiza will sort them out. In my opinion AMS2 is already in a better state, in a lot of ways, than ACC was when it launched, and Kunos has sorted that sim out nicely in the months since then.

I have no feeling in a turn when you push (or a very bad suspension oscillation coming from nowwhere, physic issue maybe), in ACC or rF2 you can feel the tire load, this effect is for me only present in ACC or F2 (I can have the same feeling in both game, even if it's better in rF2 but very close for ACC) in AMS2 in a turn it's....dead....you only feel the wheel resistance.....badly.....even the new update has changed nothing, I have noticed only the new HUD.

 

[Copef1]

I have no feeling in a turn when you push, in ACC or rF2 you can feel the tire load, this effect is for me only present in ACC or F2, in AMS2 in a turn it's....dead....you only feel the wheel resistance.....badly.....even the new update has changed nothing, I have noticed only the new HUD.

I don't know what wheel you are using, or what your settings are, but on my DD1 I don't have that problem, I can feel the tire load just fine. Also, it got better with beta2, but it wasn't non existant in beta1. I can tell they have done some work to the ffb, since beta1, but I didn't think the beta1 ffb was bad, quite the contrary.