AMD Ryzen For Simracing?

[Fi22le]

I recently got an rtx 3080 for my triple 1080p / 60hz setup.

The card is a beast, but I was disappointed to find my framerate dropping to 50fps in certain taxing situations in AMS2 (eg. night racing, Imola start line).

It looks like I’m gpu bound (97% utilisation when the FPS drop according to afterburner), but I’m wondering if upgrading from a ryzen 3600 to a 5600x might help. Anyone have any experience / insight? The reason there’s a question mark over the cpu is that reducing the number of AI helps to alleviate the problem.

 

[RasmusP]

I recently got an rtx 3080 for my triple 1080p / 60hz setup.

The card is a beast, but I was disappointed to find my framerate dropping to 50fps in certain taxing situations in AMS2 (eg. night racing, Imola start line).

It looks like I’m gpu bound (97% utilisation when the FPS drop according to afterburner), but I’m wondering if upgrading from a ryzen 3600 to a 5600x might help. Anyone have any experience / insight? The reason there’s a question mark over the cpu is that reducing the number of AI helps to alleviate the problem.

If the gpu load is at 95% or more, upgrading the cpu might give maybe 2% because it makes things for the gpu a tiny bit more more efficient but you also might no get even a single fps more...
What settings are you running? It sounds a bit weird for a 3080 to drop that far at only 3x 1080p..
Did you put everything to maximum including a resolution scale slider?

I don't have ams2 so I can't really help in this regard...

 

[Fi22le]

Thank you for your insight @RasmusP.

I’m running a mixture of high, medium and low settings. The card is running at around 40% -85% load during most conditions. There are just a few areas where it tanks, and they’re pretty much always at race start.

 

[Trebormoore84]

I received my 5800x today. Its really quite impressive and i am surprised at the boost to ACC. I had read that their would be a higher FCLK attainable but this has not been the case with mine.

Higher FCLK seems to need to be set manually above 1800mhz in the bios. Like overclocking / or manually setting the ram frequency higher is not enough for it to sync automatically. I have a 5800x now as well and have managed to overclock the ram to 3800mhz and set FCLK to 1900mhz, 2000mhz was too much though. Running 3600mhz samsung B die ram which overclocks like a champ.

Got to say rF2 performance uplift was impressive, 30-40fps uplift using 1080p triples, or run almost max settings at the same FPS, so it was definitely CPU bottlenecking before.

 

[Moonmachine]

Higher FCLK seems to need to be set manually above 1800mhz in the bios. Like overclocking / or manually setting the ram frequency higher is not enough for it to sync automatically. I have a 5800x now as well and have managed to overclock the ram to 3800mhz and set FCLK to 1900mhz, 2000mhz was too much though. Running 3600mhz samsung B die ram which overclocks like a champ.

Got to say rF2 performance uplift was impressive, 30-40fps uplift using 1080p triples, or run almost max settings at the same FPS, so it was definitely CPU bottlenecking before.

You got one, nice. Also running B die, was hoping to get to the 2000mhz. Running at 1866, 3733. I can loosen the timings but i am happy enough where it is.

 

[Case_]

@Fi22le We'd really need more information - what exactly are your settings, what are the situations when the framerate drops.

 

[Fi22le]

Well guys, a little update in case it helps anyone... I'll write a bit more detail when I get some time.

I managed to get a 5600x, so I can answer my own question about GPU / CPU limitations in AMS2...

So I was disappointed to find that my 3080 couldn't just plough through this title with no frame drops at 60hz (triple 1080p monitors). In certain scenarios my framerates were dropping (night racing at Imola, Suzuka & Kyalami are the worst cases I've found).

Now I have a 5600x CPU, it has helped, but not eliminated the issue, and my conclusion is as follows:

The issue is mostly caused by being GPU bound, but there were cases where I was CPU bound, and these now seem to be resolved (previouly getting FPS drops at 70% GPU utilisation in certain situations, and no longer getting that, so fairly conclusive).

Some tracks, for whatever reason, are really badly optimized for night racing and the GPU can't handle it. I've done a lot of experimenting and the best way to alleviate the issue is to reduce the number of AI. Other GPU performance settings such as AA, car detail, track detail, shadows etc have very little impact on the GPU performance (on this card), but dropping the number of AI is the only way to get a solid 60fps for me.

I really hope Reiza do further track optimisations, my dream is to just run the game on any track, at any time of day with maximum AI and never drop a frame, but right now, with pretty high end hardware, it is not possible.

Sorry to take this thread slightly off topic, but I thought I'd post about this in case it helps anyone.

 

[RasmusP]

Thanks for coming back with an update post!
Just a general statement:
More games need dynamic resolution or dynamic settings!
Apparently it isn't easy to further optimize things sometimes. In rf2 the gpu load varies between 25% up to 100% and getting only half the fps when there's a lot of shadows, dark spots, reflections and close cars.

But then there are great examples like acc (it's not that great in general regarding looks for performance though), where you have almost identical gpu loads no matter what time of day, weather or whatever.
Only close cars matter a little bit.

But they have "dynamic upsampling", which increases the resolution to stay at around 90% gpu load while reaching a set fps number.
So you then load a race into the fps heaviest scenario (race start from close to the back, full grid, light rain and sunset I think) and then pause and set the resolution scale to the lowest value you can still live with.
Activate the dynamic upsampling and while it might become a bit blurry for a few moments at the start or during pit stops, it be stay super sharp for everything else!

I love that feature...

Cyberpunk2077 has an "auto" setting for dlss 2.0. It does basically the same but decreases the resolution downwards from 100% when dropping in performance, while dlss scales it back up. You don't notice the changes at all but the fps are super steady!

Assassins creed Valhalla, same story.
You just set the "anti aliasing" to "dynamic 60 fps" and while I really can't notice any changes, almost all fps drops are simply gone and the game runs smoothly.


Imo this really is the way to go as most engines can do an internal render resolution change on the fly.

My 2 cents

 

[pattikins]

For anyone on the look out for the Ryzen 5600X in the UK, they are currently in stock @ Scan & elsewhere.

 

[R5GTTurbo]

Which is the best budget CPU would you recommend for playing AC and i racing on a rift s? Currently running an i7-4790,16gb ram and a rx5700 and i have to run with pretty low settings. I need to do a complete new build.

 

[RasmusP]

Which is the best budget CPU would you recommend for playing AC and i racing on a rift s? Currently running an i7-4790,16gb ram and a rx5700 and i have to run with pretty low settings. I need to do a complete new build.

9600k would be the cheap route right now. I have a 10600k and a good friend has the 9600k.
We have basically the same fps since no simracing title needs more than 5 cores currently.

The best route would be the 5600x though. Enough cores, 12 virtual threads like the 10600k but a lot better single core performance!

But right now it costs way too much due to low availability...

The 3600 cpu is too weak in single core performance in comparison to the 9600k.

Everything with more than 6 cores is just wasting money for simracing.
They are higher binned, so can clock higher (10900k vs 10600k) but honestly these 100-300 mhz are not worth the higher price!

 

[R5GTTurbo]

9600k would be the cheap route right now. I have a 10600k and a good friend has the 9600k.
We have basically the same fps since no simracing title needs more than 5 cores currently.

The best route would be the 5600x though. Enough cores, 12 virtual threads like the 10600k but a lot better single core performance!

But right now it costs way too much due to low availability...

The 3600 cpu is too weak in single core performance in comparison to the 9600k.

Everything with more than 6 cores is just wasting money for simracing.
They are higher binned, so can clock higher (10900k vs 10600k) but honestly these 100-300 mhz are not worth the higher price!

Appreciate the reply, just had a look online at a nationwide used pc parts store in the uk and i can trade in my old CPU for a 9600k and it will cost me £70 on top which doesn't seem bad at all. Will then just need a new Mobo,ram and gpu.

 

[RasmusP]

Appreciate the reply, just had a look online at a nationwide used pc parts store in the uk and i can trade in my old CPU for a 9600k and it will cost me £70 on top which doesn't seem bad at all. Will then just need a new Mobo,ram and gpu.

The alternative would be to buy a used Ryzen 3600(x), get a good B550 AMD Mobo that has Ryzen 5xxx support (most Asus do and I think MSI has a good updating procedure too).
Then slap some DDR4 3200 CL16 or better at it and upgrade when the 5600x comes down in price!

To give some € data:
When I bought my 10600k in early May, things cost:
- 10600k = 296€
- Z490 Gigabyte gaming X = 150€

- 9600k = 204€
- Z390 Gaming X = 115€

- 3600x = 186€ (non-x iirc 178€)
- B550 mobo = 150€

Now the 5600x costs 339€!

Kinda worth it compared to the 10600k in theory but my 10600k wasn't such a good deal over the 9600k, I have to admit.. I just wanted to have HT for some rendering stuff etc and I wanted to have something better than my friend and not buying identical stuff for almost the same price a good year later than him...

Anyway, right now the CPUs cost: (mobo's stayed the same)
10600k = 228€
9600k = 183€
3600 = 199€
3600 xt (higher clocks) = 239€

-------------------------------------

Difficult choice to be honest...

I would make the choice depending on how cheap you can get a used Ryzen 3600.

 

[ao1977]

Hi guys,

here's my experience with ACC in VR (Rift S).
During this year my system evolved from the initial combination i5-7500 + GTX 1080 to i7-7700 + GTX 1080 to i7-7700 + RTX 3070 to R5 5600X + RTX 3070.

I managed to get the i5 + 1080 setup running somehow playable using forced ASW and stable 40FPS. In some "stressful" situations, like going around La Source in Spa with several other cars, the VR orientation sometimes got stuck in the wrong direction, which would become noticeable better with the i7 upgrade.

In came the 3070, and to my unpleasant surprise I was not able to run my old settings without ASW; the FPS were all over the place between 60 and 80.
So I switched back to forced ASW and cranked up the details instead. As I never had issues racing with ASW, this was fine for me, but still I felt a craving for more unconstrained FPS.

Along came some end-of-year bonus and the Idea of leaving the H110 / 7th gen Intel platform for good. At that time I did not really believe I was CPU restricted, so the planned upgrade was more with the thought of being somewhat future proof (again).
I was almost on the verge of buying a R7 3700X when I came across these benchmarks. So I decided to head for a 5600X instead, which I did not regret yet.

With the 5600X and the (slightly OC'd) 3070 I get solid 80FPS, starting with the "VR high" preset and set the Resolution Scale back to 100% as well as VR Pixel Density to 150%.
Pretty sure I can do some more tweaking, but that way I enjoyed my last evening in sim racing until the Playseat had to make room for the christmas tree.

 

[RasmusP]

Hi guys,

here's my experience with ACC in VR (Rift S).
During this year my system evolved from the initial combination i5-7500 + GTX 1080 to i7-7700 + GTX 1080 to i7-7700 + RTX 3070 to R5 5600X + RTX 3070.

I managed to get the i5 + 1080 setup running somehow playable using forced ASW and stable 40FPS. In some "stressful" situations, like going around La Source in Spa with several other cars, the VR orientation sometimes got stuck in the wrong direction, which would become noticeable better with the i7 upgrade.

In came the 3070, and to my unpleasant surprise I was not able to run my old settings without ASW; the FPS were all over the place between 60 and 80.
So I switched back to forced ASW and cranked up the details instead. As I never had issues racing with ASW, this was fine for me, but still I felt a craving for more unconstrained FPS.

Along came some end-of-year bonus and the Idea of leaving the H110 / 7th gen Intel platform for good. At that time I did not really believe I was CPU restricted, so the planned upgrade was more with the thought of being somewhat future proof (again).
I was almost on the verge of buying a R7 3700X when I came along these benchmarks. So I decided to head for a 5600X instead, which I did not regret yet.

With the 5600X and the (slightly OC'd) 3070 I get solid 80FPS, starting with the "VR high" preset and set the Resolution Scale back to 100% as well as VR Pixel Density to 150%.
Pretty sure I can do some more tweaking, but that way I enjoyed my last evening in sim racing until the Playseat had to make room for the christmas tree.

Nice write up!
Thanks for sharing your path and thoughts with us!

One little thing about "didn't think I'd be cpu resistricted":
I really don't like how high the barrier is to get people to read out what's happening.
I don't think the users are to blame, there are just no simple tools that show you what's going on.

Maybe because this way the Industry can get people to buy more than they need?

Anyway:
If you're still interested: download msi afterburner (with or without rtss, not needed for this), install it, run it.
No configuration needed, just "detach" the graph window, go on track and check the gpu load.

You say you overclocked the 3070. Which tool do you use? Maybe already afterburner installed?

When it's above 95%, your gpu is limiting.
If you are below 95%, your cpu is limiting.

If both aren't limiting, there's a fps limiter active (vsync, vr, in-game limiter, hidden game engine limits etc). Mostly it's the cpu though, especially if it's stuttering and a fluctuating fps number.

 

[ao1977]

One little thing about "didn't think I'd be cpu resistricted":
I really don't like how high the barrier is to get people to read out what's happening.
I don't think the users are to blame, there are just no simple tools that show you what's going on.

In the ACC forums, there are countless pages of discussions about how to measure the CPU load correctly, as ACC neither occupies all available cores and threads nor stays bound to cores (virtual or physical). It's like trying to tame a bag of fleas.

On the other hand, I'm not willing to waste too much time on analyzing everything in-depth. Especially as I run racing sims 100% in VR, tracking down every bottleneck is a load of work, as not all informations are available in VR, and the load drops as soon as I take off my HMD.

The best thing I could to was to use the logging window of GPU-Z and scroll through it afterwards. But, as mentioned, I did not waste too much time on analysis, but tweaked the settings until I could race instead. I suspect the forced ASW masked some bottlenecks I would have discovered earlier if I had let run everything off the leash.

You say you overclocked the 3070. Which tool do you use? Maybe already afterburner installed?

My GPU is a Gigabyte Eagle RTX 3070 OC, so it's a bit overclocked out of the box. Additionally, I used Gigabytes "auto scan" feature (as described in this video) and added some MHz to the memory clock, so nothing fancy here.

When it's above 95%, your gpu is limiting.
If you are below 95%, your cpu is limiting.

If both aren't limiting, there's a fps limiter active (vsync, vr, in-game limiter, hidden game engine limits etc). Mostly it's the cpu though, especially if it's stuttering and a fluctuating fps number.

Yup, the Rift S caps the FPS at 80FPS here.

 

[RasmusP]

You don't need to invest that much time. Only thing you need is the gpu load.
When you drop into asw and the load is at more than 95%, it's your graphics card, that's too weak.
If the gpu load isn't at 95%, then it's the rest of the system. Which means cpu or ram.

It's easier to see with a clear fps number but for vr it's just a matter of "dropped frames" or using the oculus tray tool and activate the performance thingy to see when you're at 40 fps or 80.

With the oculus tray tool, you can also see the "headroom" for both cpu and gpu!

 

[Fi22le]

Rasmus, you are a very helpful guy.

 

[RasmusP]

Rasmus, you are a very helpful guy.

Thank you!
I became so frustrated with all this stuff and had a bit too much time available during the last 3 years. So I investigated until I knew everything I needed to know.
And I think there is way too less information available for the average user so I try to spread some of it to get more people to "know stuff".

I see people I know buying "wrong" stuff all the time.. Spending too much on wrong things while not spending enough in areas they really need.
Marketing and sellers who are misleading or simply don't know better themselves everywhere...

 

[R5GTTurbo]

The alternative would be to buy a used Ryzen 3600(x), get a good B550 AMD Mobo that has Ryzen 5xxx support (most Asus do and I think MSI has a good updating procedure too).
Then slap some DDR4 3200 CL16 or better at it and upgrade when the 5600x comes down in price!

To give some € data:
When I bought my 10600k in early May, things cost:
- 10600k = 296€
- Z490 Gigabyte gaming X = 150€

- 9600k = 204€
- Z390 Gaming X = 115€

- 3600x = 186€ (non-x iirc 178€)
- B550 mobo = 150€

Now the 5600x costs 339€!

Kinda worth it compared to the 10600k in theory but my 10600k wasn't such a good deal over the 9600k, I have to admit.. I just wanted to have HT for some rendering stuff etc and I wanted to have something better than my friend and not buying identical stuff for almost the same price a good year later than him...

Anyway, right now the CPUs cost: (mobo's stayed the same)
10600k = 228€
9600k = 183€
3600 = 199€
3600 xt (higher clocks) = 239€

-------------------------------------

Difficult choice to be honest...

I would make the choice depending on how cheap you can get a used Ryzen 3600.

For me its looking like this may just be a time i actually do a proper upgrade and just go for the 5600x, I'm completely out of touch with the current tech so really appreciate the advice.

Which GPU would you recommend to go with the 5600x? That's another big investment lol