[UPDATED] Questionable tactics exposed after iRacing's Daytona 24h

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As all the noise following rFactor 2 technical issues during the Virtual Le Mans race was starting to settle down, it's the sporting side of things that fuels yet another sim racing esports controversy after iRacing's edition of the Daytona 24h, with Williams Esports being at the heart of it all.

Everything started after qualifying. Pole position lap in the top class was performed by Alxander Spetz in the #1 LMDh car by driving on the apron instead of staying on the banked part of the oval. The rules clearly stated the apron was off limits, and cones were present at the beginning of the turns to further deter cars to take that line, but unusually, the software didn't trigger an off-track strike for using those bits of tarmac. Organizers explained the detection was manually removed to encourage teams suffering car damage to use the apron to crawl back to the pits without crowding the racing line unnecessarily.

Still, despite the driver having suffered a ban from the service, the team still kept, their pole position, and overall race result, although Williams purposefully switched to the face cam view for the whole lap on their own livestream. iRacing stated that the results are definitive once the race is finished, which hasn't been taken well by other competitors and the community, prompting complaints about the lack of live stewarding.

But the worst was yet to come, as sim racing streamer Pablo Araujo released a video exposing even more disturbing behavior from the team, this time in GT3.


As evidenced by replay footage, Williams Esports used a car that was out of contention after sustaining damage to help its other entry in the class. Car #2 purposefully waited in the pits and in the pit exit road to provide slipstream to its sister #55 car - which while questionable, isn't currently actively prohibited by the regulations - but more crucially, actively tempered with other competitors by defending position despite being several laps down. At some point, car #2 even pushed car #034, which was in the leader's lap, into a crash, effectively ending that team's race.

Tweets from Seb Hawkins, the esports team manager, and Jenson Button, Williams ambassador, tried to justify the LMDh car's tactics in qualifying, but haven't communicated yet on the GT side of things, as people are now calling for action from the organizers side.


UPDATE: Williams Esports has released the following statement on the 27th of January to address the described incidents.

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About author
GT-Alex
Global motorsports enjoyer, long time simracer, Gran Turismo veteran, I've been driving alongside top drivers since the dawn of online pro leagues on Gran Turismo, and qualified for the only cancelled FIA GTC World Tour. I've left aside competitive driving in 2020 to dedicate myself to IGTL, a simracing organisation hosting high quality events for pro racers and customers, to create with friends the kind of events we wished we could have had. We strive to provide the best events for drivers and the best content for viewers, and want to help the simracing scene grow and shine further in the global esports scene.

Comments

Isn’t Williams Racing an F1 team? The involvement of Williams Esports—which is part of an actual F1 team that many of us have supported at various times—and the shenanigans that the team orchestrated and defended does, in fact, put this little incident in perspective. Although the race itself was utterly, utterly meaningless, the behavior of Williams Esports leaves an impression.
? I never mentioned anything about the teams. You made a comparison to Formula 1 and "the sh!tstorm" there being "huge when the stewards set a foot wrong". My response was to that comparison. Nothing to do with the E-sports team sticking a "Williams F1" logo on their clothes.

Indeed. What these 2 last events have shown is that simracing is not ready to be taken so seriously, it is just videogamikg, no one will die in a crash, no money will be lost by damaging a car, and there are always software issues, physics exploits possibilities...
Exactly. It's just a videogame. No g-forces, no death nor injury, all sims have quite different physics from eachother let alone from real life, no money if a car get's damaged or breaks, no time lost for setup changes, no skills or mechanics needed for setup changes or repairs, no time lost for repairs, physics / gameplay exploits, different forces, different vision (especially when just using a 2D, non-3D/stereoscopic screen), etc. etc. etc. In other words, it's just a videogame, the reaction from people is hilarious.

Yes, it should still be conducted in a professional manner and with rules equally applied to every one but the rage, shouting, and whining from people over a videogame is hilarious...UNLESS there is a potential prize/s on the line which are potentially lost due to issues such as this and the recent RF2 issue but, prizes aside, none of any of this matters as it's just a videogame.

EDIT: WOW!!! I just did some research and discovered the iRacing event had no prizes / money on the line, absolutely none, ZERO!!! LOL!!! That makes all this whining so incredibly pathetic.
 
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? I never mentioned anything about the teams. You made a comparison to Formula 1 and "the sh!tstorm" there being "huge when the stewards set a foot wrong". My response was to that comparison. Nothing to do with the E-sports team sticking a "Williams F1" logo on their clothes.
I think you’re confusing my cogent insights with another’s verbiage.
 
I think you’re confusing my cogent insights with another’s verbiage.
Yes, the original post I quoted was not by you but someone else, my mistake. Having said that, that's irrelevant with regards to the post I wrote in response to your message.
 
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Yes, the original post I quoted was not by you but someone else, my mistake. Having said that, that's irrelevant with regards to the post I wrote in response to your message.

Perhaps I am misreading the intent behind your posts, but it seems that the consensus opinion (beyond just yours or mine) is that the esports event itself was relatively meaningless for all the reasons previously posted.

The issue that prompted me to add my two cents to this thread has to do with how a professional organization like Williams Racing/Williams Esports conducted themselves during and after the event. Those actions reflect poorly on an organization that may race in the virtual world but conducts its business in this one.
 
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? I never mentioned anything about the teams. You made a comparison to Formula 1 and "the sh!tstorm" there being "huge when the stewards set a foot wrong". My response was to that comparison. Nothing to do with the E-sports team sticking a "Williams F1" logo on their clothes.

Exactly. It's just a videogame. No g-forces, no death nor injury, all sims have quite different physics from eachother let alone from real life, no money if a car get's damaged or breaks, no time lost for setup changes, no skills or mechanics needed for setup changes or repairs, no time lost for repairs, physics / gameplay exploits, different forces, different vision (especially when just using a 2D, non-3D/stereoscopic screen), etc. etc. etc. In other words, it's just a videogame, the reaction from people is hilarious.

Yes, it should still be conducted in a professional manner and with rules equally applied to every one but the rage, shouting, and whining from people over a videogame is hilarious...UNLESS there is a potential prize/s on the line which are potentially lost due to issues such as this and the recent RF2 issue but, prizes aside, none of any of this matters as it's just a videogame.

EDIT: WOW!!! I just did some research and discovered the iRacing event had no prizes / money on the line, absolutely none, ZERO!!! LOL!!! That makes all this whining so incredibly pathetic.
I agree, altough there are still sponsors involved, so money is on the line indirectly.

But on the other hand, you also have to agree that this also makes the cheaters look even worse, because they went to all the trouble to cheat on a race that pays absolutely nothing, just so they could "win" at a videogame...
 
If you cheat and come in 1st. You didn't win, you cheated!
Um, no? Coming in 1st is winning regardless of how you do it, and all of your childhood sporting heroes would do the same thing because that's the mentality you need to have to win in sports. If you don't take advantage of any loophole that presents itself, you get left behind by those who do. Hence;

If you cheat to win then you are morally bankrupt. You even know that you are as you knew someone would call you that. That's where the problem is. Right there.
You completely failed to answer the question I presented you, so from my point of view you're the morally unjustified one here to slag me off.
 
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I agree, altough there are still sponsors involved, so money is on the line indirectly.

But on the other hand, you also have to agree that this also makes the cheaters look even worse, because they went to all the trouble to cheat on a race that pays absolutely nothing, just so they could "win" at a videogame...

Moreover, Seb Hawkins stated that Williams Esports “has an obligation [sic] to win races for our partners and brands that invest in us.” In effect, Seb is blaming the sponsors of Williams Esports for his team’s behavior!
 
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Um, no? Coming in 1st is winning regardless of how you do it, and all of your childhood sporting heroes would do the same thing because that's the mentality you need to have to win in sports. If you don't take advantage of any loophole that presents itself, you get left behind by those who do. Hence;


You completely failed to answer the question I presented you, so from my point of view you're the morally unjustified one here to slag me off.
You are wrong, that reflects YOUR mentality, not a winner's mentality. I was absolutely horrified when i saw Loris Capirossi push Tetsuya Harada into the weeds, and specially, show no remorse about it, it completely changed my opinion on the guy, and soured me about his character. And i guess Aprilia thought the same, because they fired him. So no, just "winning" does not make you a hero, if you have an ounce of backbone you will denounce that. There is a reason why some of the most universally beloved winners, even in motorsports, are guys who won and kept it clean.

But we had this conversation before, all you care is about winning, and behold, once again you are a minority with that mentality, thankfully...
 
Moreover, Seb Hawkins stated that Williams Esports “has an obligation [sic] to win races for our partners and brands that invest in us.” In effect, Seb is blaming the sponsors of Williams Esports for his team’s behavior!
Yes, i would love to see where in the contract says he should win at all costs, and if his sponsor his happy with the subsequent fallout, and even being used as justification for this...
 
Yes, i would love to see where in the contract says he should win at all costs, and if his sponsor his happy with the subsequent fallout, and even being used as justification for this...
Of course the team wants him to win, that's what they signed him for. He's not only justified, but obligated to set the fastest time possible using whatever racing line the game lets him get away with.

I'm only a minority opinion on this within RaceDepartment's echo chamber. In the real world, people actually understand the difference between mere gamesmanship to win a sporting contest and actually being a bad guy in real life.
 
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Of course the team wants him to win, that's what they signed him for. He's not only justified, but obligated to set the fastest time possible using whatever racing line the game lets him get away with.

I'm only a minority opinion on this within RaceDepartment's echo chamber. In the real world, people actually understand the difference between mere gamesmanship to win a sporting contest and actually being a bad guy in real life.

Memo to Williams Esports: Fire Seb Hawkins. JayOTT is your guy. ;)
 
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Of course the team wants him to win, that's what they signed him for. He's not only justified, but obligated to set the fastest time possible using whatever racing line the game lets him get away with.

I'm only a minority opinion on this within RaceDepartment's echo chamber. In the real world, people actually understand the difference between mere gamesmanship to win a sporting contest and actually being a bad guy in real life.
In the real world cheating teams and sportspeople are generally unpopular and their behavior is condemned. Real world repercussions for real world cheating is also a real world thing.

At least, in the real world I live in, You might be a different one. I've never seen any platform, be it digital or real world where people are just cool with others cheating to win.


...unless its coming from someone who also applies cheating as a strategy.....
 
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I haven't followed all this too much because of my views of "e-sports" and not caring about kids doing the same thing I can do on my couch: twiddling their thumbs playing videogames, however, that aside, aren't the iRacing and/or the organizers at fault here???... NOT because of the game not detecting the apparent "cheat" but because after they discovered the cheat, they let the results stand?

I see the whole argument between people is sort of like "the game should have caught the cheat so it's iRacing's fault" VS "the player/team cheated so it's his/their fault". Well, neither of those arguments would even matter if iRacing (or the organizers or whoever was in control) simply did not let the results stand - simple as that - regardless of if it was the game's or player's/team's fault.
 
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Of course the team wants him to win, that's what they signed him for. He's not only justified, but obligated to set the fastest time possible using whatever racing line the game lets him get away with.

I'm only a minority opinion on this within RaceDepartment's echo chamber. In the real world, people actually understand the difference between mere gamesmanship to win a sporting contest and actually being a bad guy in real life.
Really? So i wonder why the FIA goes through all the trouble to police track limits... maybe because there are RULES in sporting contests, that you are supposed to FOLLOW, or else its not a sporting contest anymore, but a farse?...

You don't seem to understand that if one individual doesnt follow the rules of the sport, he didnt actually beat anybody at said sport. He played by his own rules quite literally, so that not only made the sporting contest meaningless and hollow, it also made his supposed "win" meaningless and hollow, because he could never claim that following the rules of the contest he was the best that day.

And if i, or anybody knows that people are not going to follow the rules, why should i bother playing? You see, this is a much big of a problem than you think. There is a reason why the cycling world was dealing with a massive image and credibility problem after Lance Armstrong came public. If what we are watching is not a real contest of the best at something in equal footing rules wise, then nobody wants to watch it.
 
Premium
In the real world cheating teams and sportspeople are generally unpopular and their behavior is condemned. Real world repercussions for real world cheating is also a real world thing.

At least, in the real world I live in, You might be a different one. I've never seen any platform, be it digital or real world where people are just cool with others cheating to win.


...unless its coming from someone who also applies cheating as a strategy.....

Oh, this whole thread makes a lot more sense if the backers and sponsors of Williams Esports were either Livestrong or Hustle for Heroes.
 
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There is a reason why the cycling world was dealing with a massive image and credibility problem after Lance Armstrong came public. If what we are watching is not a real contest of the best at something in equal footing rules wise, then nobody wants to watch it.
Everyone in cycling was doping back then. Heck, they might still be. Lance got scapegoated because he was an asshole outside of the sporting contest. Karma. But you don't see people labelling Ulrich or Pantini cheaters even though they obviously doped too.
 
Everyone in cycling was doping back then. Heck, they might still be. Lance got scapegoated because he was an asshole outside of the sporting contest. Karma. But you don't see people labelling Ulrich or Pantini cheaters even though they obviously doped too.
Armstrong was not scapegoated, he got a fair payback for what he did and paid a much lower price than Pantani.

Btw the cycling example goes to show that naming and shaming cheaters is not enough to prevent cheating. A few sponsors go out, others come in. Likewise, pro simracing cannot prevent that kind of dirty behavior just with post-races debates.
 
I don't, as I don't give a toss about "esports" - whatever they may be.
Sim racing allows people like me, who are too slow to be a professional and too poor to be an amateur, to experience a bit of our beloved sport.
Turning video games into a real competition with sponsors, broadcasts, etc. is just a marketing stunt.

Very funny
 

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