RaceRoom Dev Thomas Jansen: New Tires Are "More Detailed and Progressive"

Skinny McLean · Dec 18, 2023

I'm really looking forward to try this later today!

Baudo · Dec 18, 2023

Tried just 5min ago. Love the new physics, it seems to be a little more predictable, and has a more detailed ffb..but I tried few combinations, it needs more time. I also really love the 296

kakakakkaka · Dec 18, 2023

There's no bigger sim influencer than GamerMuscle!

TeddyBearx · Dec 18, 2023

I will be in the party tonight !

MJQT · Dec 18, 2023

Excited to try these RaceRoom updates soon! While I've always enjoyed RaceRoom's tyre feeling, there was this odd feeling past the limit sometimes – like a threshold past which the tires turned to ice and had zero grip. Hoping this addresses that.

LATER EDIT: the update fixes precisely this. What was once an 'on off switch' (suddenly the grip disappeared and the tires screamed) now feels like a progressive curve where you can push over the limit and the grip gradually disappears. Means you can bring the car back from a slide more easily, and can also rotate on-throttle enjoyably. Excellent stuff!

Hoping the next items on RaceRoom's to-do list are: (1) rewriting the code currently limiting them to a selection of old, low-res premade in-car dashboards; and (2) dialling in AI lines and parameters so it's more consistent and player-like.

manu68 · Dec 18, 2023

I wish good luck to raceroom with this new tyres model.
I played with raceroom during the last week end, and it brought a big smile to my face.
I hope this update will not kill everything.

Large Style · Dec 18, 2023

I did a brief stint on RR yesterday so I could test before and after today's update, all done with DTM 2013 around Hockenheim and DTM '91 around Bilster Berg. The new feedback in general does feel exactly as stated, more detailed and progressive.

With the '91 car I was a little disappointed that my aged G29 didn't present much difference in low speed cornering, especially over all the vertical changes in that track, but this could easily be my low-spec wheel or maybe need the FFB minimum forces upped a percentage or two. The car did feel more connected to the road which is obviously a good thing. Mid speed cornering felt great, very informative, but I was a little underwhelmed when going around the fast left toward the end of the track - I'd always enter that corner with a little slide but didn't feel that hardly at all through the wheel.

The '13 car was also more informative - I could feel more progression throughout, even in the slower corners (which is where I need better feel the most) and the fast right leading back into the stadium section has much more progression as the speed builds up. It did feel a little dead going through the last two right-handers though, but again this could just be my old gear.

Overall, while not being a massive overhaul (which it never claimed to be) it's still a significant update that adds even more detail and realism to the titles feel giving it more polish and refinement than ever before. It's impressive stuff even on my G29, so when my Fanatec stuff turns up in the next week or two I'm sure I'll be blown away with RR again.

Edit: I forgot to say thank you to RD for the interview - it's great to hear first-hand from the developers their story behind the update. Your article tells not only of these details but what may lay ahead for the sim, so this info is much appreciated.

kart1 · Dec 18, 2023

After testing for 2 hours I'm rather dubious, not with the new Tire Model but the feeling at the wheel especially on the brakes where there is almost no feeling (tspc racer) the physics of the cars are very good but I think we need to review the FFB!

Andi Goodwin · Dec 18, 2023

kart1 said:
After testing for 2 hours I'm rather dubious, not with the new Tire Model but the feeling at the wheel especially on the brakes where there is almost no feeling (tspc racer) the physics of the cars are very good but I think we need to review the FFB!

you might want to turn up the road feel a bit ; with lower end wheels this may help with new tyre model

Andi

avenger82 · Dec 18, 2023

I only tried the Mercedes GT3 2020, Porsche 911 Gt3 Cup (from 2019) and Tatuus 4 and the tire change is certainly an evolution not a revolution. Granted that last month Ive been playing only iRacing and rf2 so I don’t have fresh memory how it was before, but the tires still seem to be more grippy and certainly cars more forgiving overall, than in sims like ACC and iRacing. Especially in iRacing the latest Audi R8 GT3 EVO II is more challenging to drive: when driving over the limit it will oversteer in a way that’s very hard to catch, so you have to be way more careful. Never driven GT3 car IRL, but I guess difficulty should be somewhere in the middle.

Austin Ogonoski · Dec 19, 2023

Incredible update.
Wish I lived in a Euro timezone so I could race it online.

Peter Kerényi · Dec 19, 2023

No amount of physics/FFB improvements is going to make me go back to a sim where the old generic incorrect dash displays immediately take my immersion away.

mclaren777 · Dec 19, 2023

I did 25 minutes in the MX-5 Cup tonight and that car is transformed. Gone is the tedious understeer. Now it's as lively as you could ever want!

Kimmo Kokkonen · Dec 19, 2023

This new Raceroom is really good now. I had a problem with the steering (Logitech G29) in slow corners, I adjusted the steering wheel sensitivity 100 -> 50, gas and brake 50 -> 100 and now it feels even better than Assetto Corsa.

90's Formula 1 feels so real. It's harder to drive fast than before but not too difficult so at now it feels like a realistic simulator.

Thank you very much.

Andi Goodwin · Dec 19, 2023

apologies to mods about my remark yesterday about the graphics bunnies ...
just get a little bored when we all know what the graphics are like ; and yesterday when literally months of work got added to the game , some people just fall back on the dx9 thing ...
between the new tyres ; with a majority of cars getting a full tweak and new default setup ; loads of updated tracks , new braking/abs .. track limits and the first pass of the ai update ... all that gets said is some one liner from someone who hasnt even loaded the game up about the graphics engine

any way once again sorry i reacted

Andi

Peter Kerényi · Dec 19, 2023

Andi Goodwin said:
apologies to mods about my remark yesterday about the graphics bunnies ...
just get a little bored when we all know what the graphics are like ; and yesterday when literally months of work got added to the game , some people just fall back on the dx9 thing ...
between the new tyres ; with a majority of cars getting a full tweak and new default setup ; loads of updated tracks , new braking/abs .. track limits and the first pass of the ai update ... all that gets said is some one liner from someone who hasnt even loaded the game up about the graphics engine

any way once again sorry i reacted

Andi

I don't know how many times it needs to be repeated, the DX9 issue is not (just) a graphics issue, rather a system utilization issue. There are decent PC builds where the game runs with significant stuttering in racing scenarios due to being limited by a single CPU thread (in my case on a Ryzen 5 5600X). We personally went through this on the Sector 3 Forums like 2 years ago where I provided frame-time graphs and even gave comparisons to running in through a Vulkan wrapper where it was smooth (yes, results can be variable, but it wasn't fine tuned for R3E). Throwing DX9 complaints on graphics is just making us seem needy and disregarding the bigger problem. But that is game development in general nowadays, performance and optimization on the last place in the priority list if it even makes the list (not directed primarily at KW but I am fed up with it in general).

Just a quick disclaimer, I haven't played R3E since the last free weekend, performance profile could have changed but I seriously doubt it.

wolftree · Dec 19, 2023

Welcome to the 21st century, RaceRoom tyre physics! Feels a bit like ACC now except with a lot more car content and less prone to dying on kerbs.

Now that the fundamental physics are improved, how about working on those digital dashboards?

Andi Goodwin · Dec 19, 2023

Peter Kerényi said:
I don't know how many times it needs to be repeated, the DX9 issue is not (just) a graphics issue, rather a system utilization issue. There are decent PC builds where the game runs with significant stuttering in racing scenarios due to being limited by a single CPU thread (in my case on a Ryzen 5 5600X). We personally went through this on the Sector 3 Forums like 2 years ago where I provided frame-time graphs and even gave comparisons to running in through a Vulkan wrapper where it was smooth (yes, results can be variable, but it wasn't fine tuned for R3E). Throwing DX9 complaints on graphics is just making us seem needy and disregarding the bigger problem. But that is game development in general nowadays, performance and optimization on the last place in the priority list if it even makes the list (not directed primarily at KW but I am fed up with it in general).

Just a quick disclaimer, I haven't played R3E since the last free weekend, performance profile could have changed but I seriously doubt it.

i can understand your argument about the single core ; but i didn't reply to that ; and never would ; i replied to something of the kin .... hey race room the 1990s want your graphics engine back .....

i don't have flashy new kit ; 16gb ddr3, a recently installed 1080ti ; and a cpu at 3.5ghz but not a k /4 cores .... i only run in 1080p and am well above my refresh rate ; and was with the previous gtx970... yes i use dxvk ; not because it really gives more fps , but it seems to spread it out across the cores
A lot of newer kit ; and amd especially seems to hate dx9 ; I've seen this over the years
i understand the frustration of ppl getting a cpu bottle neck etc ; and that ppl want to be full 4k/144hz plus ;; but we all have to realise that swapping out what is the core of how the game engine runs isn't an over night job ; and anyone who believes its not on the list/being investigated would be wrong ... Race room isn't a buy a new thing every other year and in recent posts from the head of the studio has talked about these issues and the long term aspirations for the game ...
so please understand me when i say /or react to graphics bunnies ; it is only to that ; small snide remarks from ppl who have no interest in the game itself ; and not remarking on the restrictions of single core use

Andi

Kenny Paton · Dec 19, 2023

I've already cleaned the thread regarding graphics because the subject has been aired in every previous raceroom discussion.
So let's just talk about the update.

Peter Kerényi · Dec 19, 2023

Andi Goodwin said:
i can understand your argument about the single core ; but i didn't reply to that ; and never would ; i replied to something of the kin .... hey race room the 1990s want your graphics engine back .....

i don't have flashy new kit ; 16gb ddr3, a recently installed 1080ti ; and a gpu at 3.5ghz but not a k /4 cores .... i only run in 1080p and am well above my refresh rate ; and was with the previous gtx970... yes i use dxvk ; not because it really gives more fps , but it seems to spread it out across the cores
A lot of newer kit ; and amd especially seems to hate dx9 ; I've seen this over the years
i understand the frustration of ppl getting a cpu bottle neck etc ; and that ppl want to be full 4k/144hz plus ;; but we all have to realise that swapping out what is the core of how the game engine runs isn't an over night job ; and anyone who believes its not on the list/being investigated would be wrong ... Race room isn't a buy a new thing every other year and in recent posts from the head of the studio has talked about these issues and the long term aspirations for the game ...
so please understand me when i say /or react to graphics bunnies ; it is only to that ; small snide remarks from ppl who have no interest in the game itself ; and not remarking on the restrictions of single core use

Andi

Thank you for your reply and acknowledgment. I understand that R3E is a long term project and I hope an API change is planned in the long run. I must admit I am not familiar with that interview with head of the studio. As I see it this is a complicated situation if R3E wants to stay sustainable. The dev team needs money to improve the core game, so they need to sell new content to make money. However if the core improvements (and in my eyes API/performance is the biggest one, followed by proper dash displays, my other reason why I don't play) are put off for too long, some people (myself included) will stop buying new content, so there's less money to work with.

And just a tiny bit of a correction, this is not about not maintaining 4k/144Hz+, this is about getting drops to high 30s at 1080p.

RaceRoom Dev Thomas Jansen: New Tires Are "More Detailed and Progressive"

OverTake: When did you join KW and what do you do there?​

OverTake: ... and as a die-hard sim racer that directly led you into game development?​

OverTake: How do you and Alex divide up the work exactly?​

OverTake: How would you summarize RaceRoom's new tire model in one sentence?​

OverTake: How did you proceed with other tire types and forms - narrower, older, slicks? Are these theoretical derivations of the new model or do you have real data for these as well?​

OverTake: How does developing a tire model work?​

OverTake: What needed to be considered in interaction with the other simulated aspects such as FFB, suspension, brakes?​

OverTake: Which car would you most of all recommend for testing the new tire model?​

OverTake: As we all know, development never ends, and V5 is followed by V6. Where do you still see potential for optimization in the tire model?​

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OverTake: When did you join KW and what do you do there?

OverTake: ... and as a die-hard sim racer that directly led you into game development?

OverTake: How do you and Alex divide up the work exactly?

OverTake: How would you summarize RaceRoom's new tire model in one sentence?

OverTake: How did you proceed with other tire types and forms - narrower, older, slicks? Are these theoretical derivations of the new model or do you have real data for these as well?

OverTake: How does developing a tire model work?

OverTake: What needed to be considered in interaction with the other simulated aspects such as FFB, suspension, brakes?

OverTake: Which car would you most of all recommend for testing the new tire model?

OverTake: As we all know, development never ends, and V5 is followed by V6. Where do you still see potential for optimization in the tire model?