Motorcycle Gaming Hardware is Coming?!

Mekonrider · Feb 22, 2023

doubledragoncc said:
Well said m8. Dont pee on Randalls idea until you try it. I have had the same from people for years but NEVER had ONE person say my systems dont work for both desktop and sit-on systems.

At least Randall has tried to make something! How many that have commented have ever tried it themselves???

New ideas to time to florrish and everyone deserves a chance to try it.

If it actually works it could be a big seller for Randall!

A FFB wheel does it's magic and does feed back information which I can translate into a driving experience. Brakes are harder to get near reality. This said you get a passable experience that may carry forward in some aspects of real driving, especially in VR.

That bike thing is pure arcade. Even the big bike rig you've got isn't near reality as you are direct steering like a quadbike not a motorbike. Then again nearly all bikes games also more arcade than sim. That TT game is ludicrous with it's handling model, it's doesn't even get hard to lean as you get faster.

garyjpaterson · Feb 22, 2023

Cote Dazur said:
No, the result of counter steering is leaning.
When you ride you do not try to make the bike lean, it does that by itself, all you need to do it push on one side of the handle bar.
What it looks like and how it is done is very different.
That is why, until you can replicate that, you might have an entertaining bike racing game apparatus, but for simulation it is worthless.

yep, i was just simplifying. I know that countersteering initiates the lean, and all of this needs to work in a sim to be correct. But the main point was that in the end, you do still need to be able to lean (even though its not initiated by you leaning), which is why i focused on it being a limitation due to space requirements and costs.

turbo86 · Feb 22, 2023

I don't appreciate how the article gets hijacked in such a fashion and i wouldn't buy anything from people who do this. Sorry. Just being honest.
Anyway, both this little thing and the other weird contraption are no better than just a gamepad stick really. Without full body movement, there is no bike simulation. Zero. Only systems like LeanGP or MotoTrainer or the monster Cruden makes, can simulate riding.
It would be great if one of the big sim hardware companies could make a "lite" version of one of those. At least something that doesn't need an entire livingroom and a real bike to work.

Damage Inc · Feb 22, 2023

I'm still trying to save up for DoubleDragons kit, had my eye on it for a while now. Life just keeps on getting in the way (bloody cost of living prices already scuppered me getting a new GPU

).
I presume the main issue with a bike controller is the physics of the games themselves. The control method always seems to be direct lean control of the bike and not the pressures the rider is applying to bars, pegs and body position (could that every be replicated?). I don't know how GP bikes does it other than I'm beyond awful with it using a pad (when I'm fine with Milestone and IOMTT games) so havn't persevered with it. I doubt feedback will ever work properly with a consumer based product, I'd be happy with some sort of rumble warning the tyres are starting to protest to judge throttle and brake application.

Bottom line for me though is I just really want twist throttle and brake levers more than anything!! Oh and for it to cost £300 which I don't think is realistic for DD to do with the bespoke nature of his work. I'd be interested in the cheapest price though. DoubleDragon, I've contacted you before but lost details, whats you're email address?

roadyroad · Feb 22, 2023

Mekonrider said:
Is this an April Fool thing come early?

Exactly what came to my mind watching this announcement video. I don't know about the quality of this piece of equipment but for sure this video is in the top contender for the 2023 worst and most ridiculous advertisement, and a solid one in the gaming advertisement history. I had to watch it twice to fully realise it was real.

Well the ridiculousness of the video is almost matched by the ridiculousness of the name "emotostick"... if you want the world to understand how serious simracing is, you can't do better.

Well done, at least I won't forget this thing!

roadyroad · Feb 22, 2023

doubledragoncc said:
Well thats not true. I have been making real motorcycle controllers for years!!! Desktop and Sit-On systems with REAL controls and not some gimicky controller. Where is the twist throttle and hydraulic brakes and clutch levers??? Oh and what about the foot controls for gearshift and rear hydraulic brake??? My systems have them!!!

I admit this is PC only but that is because I cant afford the millions to pay Sony and Microsoft to do so lol

Impressive!

Enzo Fazzi · Feb 22, 2023

It's two VR handcontrollers with a stick? At least, that's all I'm really getting from that trailer.

doubledragoncc · Feb 22, 2023

Cote Dazur said:
No, the result of counter steering is leaning.
When you ride you do not try to make the bike lean, it does that by itself, all you need to do it push on one side of the handle bar.
What it looks like and how it is done is very different.
That is why, until you can replicate that, you might have an entertaining bike racing game apparatus, but for simulation it is worthless.

@doubledragoncc what you have done is the most interesting rig to emulate bike riding in a game I have ever seen, with VR, it is probably the best out there, from what I can see.

I agree, you need counter steer to initiate the turn but then the handle bar still need to simulate what the bike is suppose to be doing, tricky, and then we would still need the whole bike body to lean realistically, even more tricky.
On the bright side, if you were ever to succeed, you would be set financially for the rest of your life and make thousands of rider very happy around the world.

I am working on (slowly due to zero funds) making my systems with motion,but I want to be able to have full race bodies and it not look like **** lol. It is hard but have the designs just not the money for the build. I just sole a system to Yamaha UK and hoping it will get my foot in the door for the future. Problem is I cant build a cheap system as it is a LOT of hand building only and cant afford to stock parts so they are expensive too. I need a backer hint hint lol

doubledragoncc · Feb 22, 2023

Mekonrider said:
A FFB wheel does it's magic and does feed back information which I can translate into a driving experience. Brakes are harder to get near reality. This said you get a passable experience that may carry forward in some aspects of real driving, especially in VR.

That bike thing is pure arcade. Even the big bike rig you've got isn't near reality as you are direct steering like a quadbike not a motorbike. Then again nearly all bikes games also more arcade than sim. That TT game is ludicrous with it's handling model, it's doesn't even get hard to lean as you get faster.

I dont agree.........try GPBikes, it is a real simulation with real physics and my system is designed for it. You do not understand the consept, I dont STEER as you dont in real life either. IMy system works on LEAN ANGLE of the bike and it FEELS natural. You dont have to think about steering a bike really, it is just a natural feeling and so is my system. Try it before you slag it off with wrong thinking!

doubledragoncc · Feb 22, 2023

turbo86 said:
I don't appreciate how the article gets hijacked in such a fashion and i wouldn't buy anything from people who do this. Sorry. Just being honest.
Anyway, both this little thing and the other weird contraption are no better than just a gamepad stick really. Without full body movement, there is no bike simulation. Zero. Only systems like LeanGP or MotoTrainer or the monster Cruden makes, can simulate riding.
It would be great if one of the big sim hardware companies could make a "lite" version of one of those. At least something that doesn't need an entire livingroom and a real bike to work.

I did not hijack the thread we have been discussing the principles behind such a system and I just happen to have done something about a controller. As for LeanGP you mean the SCAM company right. As for the others, they are not as you say they are in many ways.

I have been supporting Randall in this thread and therefore it is part of the topic. He has a hard road to success if taken wrongly and I am supporting him!!!

As you have no real knowledge of my systems or Randalls you cant just say they dont work and it be correct, have you tried either.

Give Randall a chance to prove his system first!!!

doubledragoncc · Feb 22, 2023

Damage Inc said:
I'm still trying to save up for DoubleDragons kit, had my eye on it for a while now. Life just keeps on getting in the way (bloody cost of living prices already scuppered me getting a new GPU ).
I presume the main issue with a bike controller is the physics of the games themselves. The control method always seems to be direct lean control of the bike and not the pressures the rider is applying to bars, pegs and body position (could that every be replicated?). I don't know how GP bikes does it other than I'm beyond awful with it using a pad (when I'm fine with Milestone and IOMTT games) so havn't persevered with it. I doubt feedback will ever work properly with a consumer based product, I'd be happy with some sort of rumble warning the tyres are starting to protest to judge throttle and brake application.

Bottom line for me though is I just really want twist throttle and brake levers more than anything!! Oh and for it to cost £300 which I don't think is realistic for DD to do with the bespoke nature of his work. I'd be interested in the cheapest price though. DoubleDragon, I've contacted you before but lost details, whats you're email address?

Thanks for the plug, I feel bad as this is Randalls thread and I support his efforts to do this.

As you asked you can find my email in my profile I think. I cant put it here and is rude of me to do so. As to GPBikes play with the Direct Lean amout to help you. I think Gamepad users are about 30-40%

Back to Randalls system. The one thing it has is that it may make it better for players than a gamepad.

DC WOLF · Feb 22, 2023

for creating a MC rig you could start with something like this.
Bigger bike and a very hard spring, dependend on your size and weight

mar38_sandy federwippe-wipptier-holzhof-motorrad-blau-xum1.jpg

pai · Feb 22, 2023

I can't speak with certainty because I have never driven a bike at track speeds, but from everything I read, there are two problems when trying to simulate motorcycles...

1. Hardware is expensive and complex. Besides what doubledragoncc is doing, which is great, you need to have:
*servos controlling lean and pitch, with a dynamic FFB system that fights your body when trying to force the bike to do something it does not want to
*gyroscopes to measure lean and pitch angles
*load cells on both ends to measure weight transfer
*room for rider to move around
*security measures for the user when the bike has lost grip and cannot stay up anymore

2. Simulation software needs to be able to account for all of this and accept all the variables you can create from the rig described above as inputs. I don't know if GPBikes can do it, but games like MotoGP, Ride or Rims for sure cannot.

Plus, if you see so much outrage on car racing simulation users, claiming that you can easily spin and crash when you shouldn't, and gauge it by watching pro series and showing that those drivers rarely spin out...what would it be then with two wheels, where you watch top series like MotoGP or WSBK and there isn't a session without world class riders crashing down with a low or high side? How finnicky would feeling be? How tough would it be for devs to nail bike behaviour with the inputs of a fully developed rig?

The great thing about car racing, is that you don't need software or hardware to be fundamentally different from entry level to top flight simulation, because your body inputs are limited when you are strapped into the bucket seat, and a base Logitech kit can simulate them easily, then it's up to the software to do the rest. There is mass production in both sides of the equation and it is easier for everybody. Motorcycles are much more complex and don't enjoy these luxuries.

doubledragoncc · Feb 22, 2023

pai said:
I can't speak with certainty because I have never driven a bike at track speeds, but from everything I read, there are two problems when trying to simulate motorcycles...

1. Hardware is expensive and complex. Besides what doubledragoncc is doing, which is great, you need to have:
*servos controlling lean and pitch, with a dynamic FFB system that fights your body when trying to force the bike to do something it does not want to
*gyroscopes to measure lean and pitch angles
*load cells on both ends to measure weight transfer
*room for rider to move around
*security measures for the user when the bike has lost grip and cannot stay up anymore

2. Simulation software needs to be able to account for all of this and accept all the variables you can create from the rig described above as inputs. I don't know if GPBikes can do it, but games like MotoGP, Ride or Rims for sure cannot.

Plus, if you see so much outrage on car racing simulation users, claiming that you can easily spin and crash when you shouldn't, and gauge it by watching pro series and showing that those drivers rarely spin out...what would it be then with two wheels, where you watch top series like MotoGP or WSBK and there isn't a session without world class riders crashing down with a low or high side? How finnicky would feeling be? How tough would it be for devs to nail bike behaviour with the inputs of a fully developed rig?

The great thing about car racing, is that you don't need software or hardware to be fundamentally different from entry level to top flight simulation, because your body inputs are limited when you are strapped into the bucket seat, and a base Logitech kit can simulate them easily, then it's up to the software to do the rest. There is mass production in both sides of the equation and it is easier for everybody. Motorcycles are much more complex and don't enjoy these luxuries.

GPBikes has it ALL, even for telemetry and motion control. You have to use 3rd party software sometimes dependent on the motion system. Safety is a major factor and part reason to my steering concept. I think people do not really understand how the body and bike have to work together. I have a wireless Body Motion Unit that allows you to use your body to control the rider and work with the bike controller to get a more realistic bike reaction ingame.

I think Randalls system is where his unit would ust its positioning to do about the same maybe?

I wish Randall would join this conversation as it seems many are interested in a bike controller.

Mekonrider · Feb 22, 2023

Going to eat crow here. I watched the full bike setup video on a phone in a small window and didn't see way the steering actually works. Apologies, it's not what it first looked like.

Cote Dazur · Feb 22, 2023

doubledragoncc said:
I did not hijack the thread we have been discussing the principles behind such a system and I just happen to have done something about a controller

I also do not feel you "hijack" anything, just replied to a post , like we all do, but in your case you even offer a solution which is rare and precious, so we should thank you, if anything.

In fact, you actually made this thread interesting, with a solution, most of us did not know about, that can make it worthwhile to re examine motorcycle riding simulation.

Thinking of it, the news should have been about your solution.

Any idea/experience on how much it cost to send the basic kit (I already have the bike frame) to Canada?

Spinelli · Feb 22, 2023

I don't know what's worse, the product itself or the video. WTF did I just watch? Why is this emo-race crap even being featured here? Lol.

doubledragoncc said:
FYI.........

Handlebars look like this and not platic rings!!!

View attachment 642103

And there should ACTUALLY be Foot Controls!!!

View attachment 642104

Theres a difference between toys and simulator controls!!!

Now that's what I'm talking about! Thank you for saving (or killing, lol) this thread.

doubledragoncc · Feb 22, 2023

Cote Dazur said:
I also do not feel you "hijack" anything, just replied to a post , like we all do, but in your case you even offer a solution which is rare and precious, so we should thank you, if anything.

In fact, you actually made this thread interesting, with a solution, most of us did not know about, that can make it worthwhile to re examine motorcycle riding simulation.

Thinking of it, the news should have been about your solution.

Any idea/experience on how much it cost to send the basic kit (I already have the bike frame) to Canada?

I cant and wont post contact details here. Just check my profile and thanks for the kind words.

If I can help Randall I will support his efforts.

stenovitz · Feb 22, 2023

Cote Dazur said:
No, the result of counter steering is leaning.
When you ride you do not try to make the bike lean, it does that by itself, all you need to do it push on one side of the handle bar.
What it looks like and how it is done is very different.

Exactly!

Anyone who has ridden a real MC has (hopefully) quickly experienced the gyro effect and that it is not only the most precise but also the safest way to control your MC.

When I took driving lessons in the playpen, my MC driving instructor taught us to utilize the gyro effect by giving us the following challenge:

Drive your MC in a circle with as small a diameter as possible.

For the students who hadn't caught it, he immediately jumped up the backseat and placed his hands on top of theirs and forced the bike control.
When we had all learned our lesson, he wanted to see what we had learned and let us free on deserted small, crooked public roads.

To this day +32 years later, I still remember the first-time pleasure of not only feeling full control regardless of road course, but the feeling of the gyro effect itself.

However, I later learned that unfortunately not all MC owners learn this - some do it semi-intuitively anyway, but have several times wished that they had learned and practiced the challenge from the gun before they achieved their driver license...

mopro · Feb 23, 2023

Some guy doing weird dancing with some sticks, the video presentation does not seem convincing at all.

Motorcycle Gaming Hardware is Coming?!

More in Hardware

Fanatec Launches Second F1 Direct Drive Bundle

Fanatec Renews F1 Partnership Amidst Investment Pitches

Sponsored MOZA Racing & Lamborghini Redefine Racing Boundaries with The Real Race Super Trofeo 2024

Comments

Mekonrider

garyjpaterson

turbo86

Damage Inc

roadyroad

roadyroad

Enzo Fazzi

doubledragoncc

doubledragoncc

doubledragoncc

doubledragoncc

DC WOLF

pai

doubledragoncc

Mekonrider

Cote Dazur

Spinelli

doubledragoncc

stenovitz

mopro

Latest News

Article information

Share this article

What's needed for simracing in 2024?

More games, period

Better graphics/visuals

Advanced physics and handling

More cars and tracks

AI improvements

AI engineering

Cross-platform play

New game Modes

Other, post your idea