Motorcycle Gaming Hardware is Coming?!

Will this be useable on PC as well or only on Consoles?

Bram Hengeveld said:

I know but this article is about the emoto invented by Randall.

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Sadly, that looks like complete joke. Take it from me, as an actual bike rider.

That advert bruised my eardrums and gave me TikTok Eye. Where's the bleach?

man looks like he's rowing a boat, not riding a bike.

imo, I don't think its reasonably possible to have a similar level of immersion of car sim racing with bikes; the control methods are just too impractical to simulate for the home user.

You need to be able to lean the rig, but it also needs to push you around too. Waving your arms around is nothing more than a gimmick.

garyjpaterson said:

man looks like he's rowing a boat, not riding a bike.

imo, I don't think its reasonably possible to have a similar level of immersion of car sim racing with bikes; the control methods are just too impractical to simulate for the home user.

You need to be able to lean the rig, but it also needs to push you around too. Waving your arms around is nothing more than a gimmick.

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I would not agree. If Randall has thought it through it may work....................I should know I build bike simulators and it is not as you would think when using one. Randalls concept is that the system makes you move your body, by YOU impersonating a rider in your mind.............Its a mind trick I use too, but my system makes you physicaly lean due to its design. In VR the VR headset tricks the mind into thinking you are moving, but do you say it is wrong? No because you CANNOT truely replicate mother nature unless you have a fooball feild of space and millions to spend!!! Never put a concept down until you try it.

I know Randall is a new LLC in Florida and how hard it is to star in this catagory of sim controls, I live it every day. New concepts take time and MONEY to make it and I dont have money for development, got ideas and things I have tested but like Randall it takes time so give him a chance.

doubledragoncc said:

I would not agree. If Randall has thought it through it may work....................I should know I build bike simulators and it is not as you would think when using one. Randalls concept is that the system makes you move your body, by YOU impersonating a rider in your mind.............Its a mind trick I use too, but my system makes you physicaly lean due to its design. In VR the VR headset tricks the mind into thinking you are moving, but do you say it is wrong? No because you CANNOT truely replicate mother nature unless you have a fooball feild of space and millions to spend!!! Never put a concept down until you try it.

I know Randall is a new LLC in Florida and how hard it is to star in this catagory of sim controls, I live it every day. New concepts take time and MONEY to make it and I dont have money for development, got ideas and things I have tested but like Randall it takes time so give him a chance.

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my point is with cars, the main control used to steer is the steering wheel with FFB. Sure we are missing G-forces, but apart from that, everything is there. We can replicate a large portion of the driving experience in our homes,

But on bikes, the primary equivalent to steering is leaning. Sure you can lean your body side to side, but this cannot be considered equivalent to the realism of a FFB steering wheel. I think a true equivalent to this method would be a motion control steering wheel, like say on Mario Kart Wii...

IMO, this (image below) is what would be required to reach the same level of control realism that we currently enjoy in our consumer sim rigs (minus the huge projector, VR could replace this part). I think its clear to see this would be too expensive and bulky for most hobbyists.



I'm not saying the product shown in the article is useless or can't be entertaining. I'm just saying it (and imo any other consumer product) can't match the immersion and realism of car based sim controls.
They are a step down in realism. If you accept that, then sure there is enjoyment to be had.

Car controls just inherently lend themselves better to hobbyist usage due to their static nature.

Looks like a do-it-all wand for a wii, I won't be jumping on the wagon that's for sure.

garyjpaterson said:

my point is with cars, the main control used to steer is the steering wheel with FFB. Sure we are missing G-forces, but apart from that, everything is there. We can replicate a large portion of the driving experience in our homes,

But on bikes, the primary equivalent to steering is leaning. Sure you can lean your body side to side, but this cannot be considered equivalent to the realism of a FFB steering wheel. I think a true equivalent to this method would be a motion control steering wheel, like say on Mario Kart Wii...

IMO, this (image below) is what would be required to reach the same level of control realism that we currently enjoy in our consumer sim rigs (minus the huge projector, VR could replace this part). I think its clear to see this would be too expensive and bulky for most hobbyists.

I'm not saying the product shown in the article is useless or can't be entertaining. I'm just saying it (and imo any other consumer product) can't match the immersion and realism of car based sim controls.
They are a step down in realism. If you accept that, then sure there is enjoyment to be had.

Car controls just inherently lend themselves better to hobbyist usage due to their static nature.

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Once again, I cant agree. In 13 years I have been making bike systems not ONE person said the concept was wrong for NATURAL FEELING. Until you try a concept you can not judge it purely by your thoughts on it. Thoughts are not facts. I have had real IOM TT racers use my system and swear how realistic it feels so why cant this new concept work for at least the majority of users. Someone like yourself will infact never get a real system in your eyes as you refuse to accept anything you THINK is wrong in concept. Try before you judge. Oh and how can a Mario Kart Wii... be anywhere near realistic? Your not even sitting on a bike like my sit-on systems.

doubledragoncc said:

Once again, I cant agree. In 13 years I have been making bike systems not ONE person said the concept was wrong for NATURAL FEELING. Until you try a concept you can not judge it purely by your thoughts on it. Thoughts are not facts. I have had real IOM TT racers use my system and swear how realistic it feels so why cant this new concept work for at least the majority of users. Someone like yourself will infact never get a real system in your eyes as you refuse to accept anything you THINK is wrong in concept. Try before you judge.

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I'm not talking about how fun or natural the "feeling" is, i'll take your word on that one.
I'm saying, with all due respect, that its not equivalent to a steering wheel.
That's all.
It can still be fun, engaging, natural feeling, or many other things. What you are doing is commendable and impressive.

I'm only talking about how we cannot objectively replicate all of the same rider inputs without spending silly money.

doubledragoncc said:

Oh and how can a Mario Kart Wii... be anywhere near realistic? Your not even sitting on a bike like my sit-on systems.

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Thats exactly my point! The guy in the OP isn't sitting on a bike either He's waving his arms around like you would on a Wii, thus they are about equivalent on realism (ie. not at all!)
But even moving your body from side to side without anything pushing you back is just motion controls. You need FFB on the whole "bike" for it to be remotely close to a steering wheel (though as you know, this is just one factor. You would also need to be able to sense your longitudinal/lateral body weight, have separate FFB on the bars.... etc etc.)

doubledragoncc said:

It works on Lean Angle of the bike NOT by turning the bars as in real life you do not TURN the bars you countersteer with pressure in the opposite direction to stop the front wheel falling into the curve!!! In VR you literally feel like you are leaning as you HAVE to lean because of the concept. I am working on a full motion system too btw.

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As a biker and ex track rider of 40 odd years, I would love nothing better than some sort of handlebar control system for my PC bike sims. But cost is prohibitive and hence why there are only back garden shed designers of these things. Good luck to you though. Your product looks great.

Andy_J said:

As a biker and ex track rider of 40 odd years, I would love nothing better than some sort of handlebar control system for my PC bike sims. But cost is prohibitive and hence why there are only back garden shed designers of these things. Good luck to you though. Your product looks great.

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Dude I weld and drill in my kitchen, might not be a shed but same as just warmer which I need for 3D printer lol.

garyjpaterson said:

I'm not talking about how fun or natural the "feeling" is, i'll take your word on that one.
I'm saying, with all due respect, that its not equivalent to a steering wheel.
That's all.
It can still be fun, engaging, natural feeling, or many other things. What you are doing is commendable and impressive.

I'm only talking about how we cannot objectively replicate all of the same rider inputs without spending silly money.



Thats exactly my point! The guy in the OP isn't sitting on a bike either He's waving his arms around like you would on a Wii, thus they are about equivalent on realism (ie. not at all!)
But even moving your body from side to side without anything pushing you back is just motion controls. You need FFB on the whole "bike" for it to be remotely close to a steering wheel (though as you know, this is just one factor. You would also need to be able to sense your longitudinal/lateral body weight, have separate FFB on the bars.... etc etc.)

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Randall is just trying to make it a simple as possible for more to have at least some sort of controller besides the dreaded gamepad crap. Okay my systems go a bit further but if you want to move then try it before you say it dont work.............

I hope Randall gets to have someone review his system who rides a bike. Should not be a problem in Florida for him lol.

doubledragoncc said:

Randall is just trying to make it a simple as possible for more to have at least some sort of controller besides the dreaded gamepad crap. Okay my systems go a bit further but if you want to move then try it before you say it dont work.............

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Looks fun
I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm simply talking about equivalence to car controls, especially with respect to cost.

garyjpaterson said:

Looks fun
I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm simply talking about equivalence to car controls, especially with respect to cost.

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Cost??? Have you seen how much some rigs go for? I Handbuild my systems so costs are higher and I do not have money for stock. I have to pay companies for laser cutting and loads more so things are not cheap.

Randall has his work cut out for him to succeed in this niche as it is a hard one with fakes like LeanGP having given anyone who trys a bad chance.

The thing about car systems is that it is a very simple thing to do. Your only turning a wheel and all controls on the wheel dont extend from its rotational point and make manufacturing so simple. Handlebar systems can not be made with an automated system or as simply as a wheel unit.

Have to say, great convo with you and hope you get some understanding to the technical battles bike sim control designers and makers have to fight lol.

If your ever in UK come try it out.

doubledragoncc said:

Cost??? Have you seen how much some rigs go for?

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Sure, the sky is the limit on rigs, but you can get 99% of the way there without going crazy.

doubledragoncc said:

I Handbuild my systems so costs are higher and I do not have money for stock. I have to pay companies for laser cutting and loads more so things are not cheap.

Randall has his work cut out for him to succeed in this niche as it is a hard one with fakes like LeanGP having given anyone who trys a bad chance.

The thing about car systems is that it is a very simple thing to do. Your only turning a wheel and all controls on the wheel dont extend from its rotational point and make manufacturing so simple. Handlebar systems can not be made with an automated system or as simply as a wheel unit.

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I agree! This was my point all along. Bikes are so much more complex to control, so costs will always be higher. And that was all i was saying from the start.

Your rig looks brilliant, honestly. But its not the same as riding IRL minus the G-forces, like traditional sim racing is, which is all I was getting at (and nobody could expect it to be, you are just one man with limited funds, what you have is already impressive).

And to get to that point (where the only thing missing is G-forces), the rig would have to be ridiculous in cost and size (like the OEM ones).

garyjpaterson said:

Sure, the sky is the limit on rigs, but you can get 99% of the way there without going crazy.


I agree! This was my point all along. Bikes are so much more complex to control, so costs will always be higher. And that was all i was saying from the start.

Your rig looks brilliant, honestly. But its not the same as riding IRL minus the G-forces, like traditional sim racing is, which is all I was getting at (and nobody could expect it to be, you are just one man with limited funds, what you have is already impressive).

And to get to that point (where the only thing missing is G-forces), the rig would have to be ridiculous in cost and size (like the OEM ones).

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To actually replicate the G-Forces of a car the sim centers used by manufacturers have to be hundreds of feet long and wide and move at such speed its wild as it is how it is in actually driving. I forget which manufacturer has one and there was a video of it but Mother nature is not easy to replicate lol.

As to cost. My sit-on system is cheaper than a LOT of high end, not top tear but high end car steering setups without motion!

I think Randall is going for the in-between gamepad and actual controller group and for the majority of gamers, and no way for simmers.

On a factual sim point for replicating g-force. I have been working with a German professor who has one of my BMW S1000RR systems and he figured out that to replicate the 1G of force while braking hard with a front brake and hard acceleration I have to make my system pitch 45degrees in 1 second!!! That means a total of 90degrees movement while actually being static in a room!!! We are working on it but it is gonna be costly for parts. I have the design and am working on the same design with less movement but same principle for home use so as not to kill anyone lol. I personally think it will be hard to stay on if you are not moving as on a bike when riding as gravity and other forces will not be holding you to the bike!!!

Sadly, that looks like complete joke. Take it from me, as an actual bike rider.

Mekonrider said:

Sadly, that looks like complete joke. Take it from me, as an actual bike rider.

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Look, we already know that the correlation b/w bike riding and sims is low and suboptimal, but I'm not going to pee on a guy for trying. I want a better experience riding bikes on my PC, not a perfect experience. The same complaints can be made in car sims ("take it from me, I race actual cars..."), compromises must be made. But let's not make perfect the enemy of the good.

Ryan Soucy said:

Sadly, that looks like complete joke. Take it from me, as an actual bike rider.


Look, we already know that the correlation b/w bike riding and sims is low and suboptimal, but I'm not going to pee on a guy for trying. I want a better experience riding bikes on my PC, not a perfect experience. The same complaints can be made in car sims ("take it from me, I race actual cars..."), compromises must be made. But let's not make perfect the enemy of the good.

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Well said m8. Dont pee on Randalls idea until you try it. I have had the same from people for years but NEVER had ONE person say my systems dont work for both desktop and sit-on systems.

At least Randall has tried to make something! How many that have commented have ever tried it themselves???

New ideas to time to florrish and everyone deserves a chance to try it.

If it actually works it could be a big seller for Randall!

garyjpaterson said:

the primary equivalent to steering is leaning

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No, the result of counter steering is leaning.
When you ride you do not try to make the bike lean, it does that by itself, all you need to do it push on one side of the handle bar.
What it looks like and how it is done is very different.
That is why, until you can replicate that, you might have an entertaining bike racing game apparatus, but for simulation it is worthless.

@doubledragoncc what you have done is the most interesting rig to emulate bike riding in a game I have ever seen, with VR, it is probably the best out there, from what I can see.

doubledragoncc said:

It is impossible to replicate real bar movement and it work in sims as it would be far too sensitive and you would crash all the time, I know I have made and tested it, plus a game INSISTS on having a large amount of input which is too much to replicate real Countersteering

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I agree, you need counter steer to initiate the turn but then the handle bar still need to simulate what the bike is suppose to be doing, tricky, and then we would still need the whole bike body to lean realistically, even more tricky.
On the bright side, if you were ever to succeed, you would be set financially for the rest of your life and make thousands of rider very happy around the world.

doubledragoncc said:

Well thats not true. I have been making real motorcycle controllers for years!!! Desktop and Sit-On systems with REAL controls and not some gimicky controller. Where is the twist throttle and hydraulic brakes and clutch levers??? Oh and what about the foot controls for gearshift and rear hydraulic brake??? My systems have them!!!

I admit this is PC only but that is because I cant afford the millions to pay Sony and Microsoft to do so lol

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It does remind me of the old and beauty arcade Hang-On!