2022 Formula One Canadian Grand Prix

pai · Jun 20, 2022

BP said:
Still doesn't add up to me...how can you be:

the fastest car on track

with fresher tyres

and 3 DRS zones each lap

yet can't close a less than 1 second gap to even get alongside Max, much less pass him? I'll agree that Carlos isn't as consistent as Max across multiple laps...but even when he was on the ball he couldn't catch him, DRS or not.

I'm not even talking about straight up defensive driving by Max...it didn't even really get to that point for those 15 laps...the closest Carlos got was 0.4 I believe, maybe 0.3...but never actually had a wheel alongside Max, even when he hit his marks right...at one point (I think it was lap 68 or 69) Carlos had a really good and close exit out of the hairpin + DRS and even then couldn't get alongside Max...that's what cemented it for me...that's pure power IMO.

Let's agree to disagree

Because, simply put, Sainz is not even close to Verstappen's level. With a stronger car and younger tyres he could not nail the hairpin, losing two crucial tenths between corner exit and DRS activation point every single lap. And when Verstappen pushed even more in the last 3 laps, Sainz's reply was a series of mistakes that killed his chances.

Max outdrove Carlos. The former proved why he's a world champion and cemented his position at the top of the standings even further. The latter showed lack of nerve and precision for beating a WDC, and provided even more reasons to nominate himself as the clear #2 driver at Ferrari.

davehenrie · Jun 20, 2022

Badwheels said:
Question. The people who got pissy the last 7 years Lewis won the championship and said "it's the car", does the same apply to Max? Just asking.

If he keeps winning for the next 5 or 6 years then Hell Yes!.

TRASGU · Jun 20, 2022

Badwheels said:
Question. The people who got pissy the last 7 years Lewis won the championship and said "it's the car", does the same apply to Max? Just asking.

Yes, if he get to have a car half a second faster than the rest of the grid, then the car would be flattering him.

Normally only a very gifted driver can win a race in a car 0.3 seconds per lap slower, provided the rival driver is at least 0.3 seconds slower, nobody can operate outside of the laws of physics. The thing is: If you put a driver of the top 3 of the grid and you put him on a 0.3s faster car then not even Ayrton Senna resurrected in Nuvolari's body can beat a top 3 driver. The third best driver on the grid isn't 0.3s slower than the faster driver on the grid, probably not even the 5th.

Just in last year's karting world championship in the final 11 drivers where within 0.4s from the fastest lap of the race, and 6 within 3 tenths. If The F1 drivers are the best of the best it isn't unreasonable to think that the top 5 drivers on the F1 grid are no more than 3 tenths slower than the fastest driver on the grid. And I think that we can convene that F1 drivers are no worse than those kids still on karting, so the time deltas could be even smaller.

When nobody on the grid has a car within 3 tenths nobody can even compete unless the drivers on the dominant car are complete incompetents, when a car is 0.5s faster the drivers of any other team are only there as filler NPC's. At that point you have to admit that a person in a car half a second per lap faster has nobody else to compete with other than his own team mate, and if said team mate is clearly a lesser driver the outcome is one in where a driver sets records everywhere seeming like a flawless invincible god. Hamilton had that privilege for 8 seasons straight (yes Rosberg was a lesser driver, even Max made him look like a complete fool on few occasions during his championship winning year), in some years he had a car more than a second and a half faster than anybody else, and a top speed advantage close to 15km/h.

Now Hamilton no longer has a car 0.5s+ faster than the rest of the grid and has a competitive team mate, he no longer looks unbeatable and mighty as in 2014-2020, proving that the car flattered him as it would have done to anybody else to the grid if they had a chance to be on his seat. Anybody that could have beaten Bottas and Rosberg would had won championships non stop on that car.

If he is the best driver in F1 history as a small and very noisy part of his fans that is very toxic like to brag about he should be either destroying Russel by now, or be at least very close to him on points. He has the exact same car as him and until now it has been a deja vu of 2014 Vettel's season in where Ricciardo made a lot of fans to ask themselves a lot of questions about Vettel.

The thing is: in his whole career Max only has had a car 0.5s faster in a whole race in no more than 5 races, Hamilton has had that privilege for 8 years straight, hundreds and hundreds of races. People wanted to see a car competition, cars fighting with a real chance to win, not nearly a full decade of parades race after race nor knowing in the second week of testing in February who's going to win the WDC and WCC, that was soul crushing.

If you look to the scores as are right now on paper Red Bull has a very dominant car this year. And then if you look at it closer then it turns out that Ferrari had a car capable to be put on pole and with the pace to be capable to win all the races until now with the exception of Imola in where the red bull was clearly 2 tenths faster.

Red Bull won all those races this year with the exception of Imola because of: reliability issues, the strategy clowns that pick their strategies and the pit stop clown mechanics. It is not Red Bull bullying them on pace, is Ferrari throwing away a championship on pure incompetence grounds. They can make a pole 0.35s faster and still manage to loose the race somehow. Ferrari needs to get their **** together, if they do they still can win both championships.

Making comparisons between 2022 to the most dominant era in motorsport history is absurd, nobody could fight consistently against Mercedes for almost a decade, and Leclerc in other circumstances now would be the championship leader with a very good margin, it isn't he speed of the cars like in the 2014-2020 era that it is making this championship seem one sided, it is the incompetency of Ferrari operating that car, they have been until now incapable to live up to their car and first driver true potential. The car more than fast enough to win both championships.

Kingkoenig · Jun 20, 2022

Badwheels said:
Question. The people who got pissy the last 7 years Lewis won the championship and said "it's the car", does the same apply to Max? Just asking.

That Red Bull really looks better than the rest of the field in race conditions.

Kingkoenig · Jun 20, 2022

BP said:
Still doesn't add up to me...how can you be:

the fastest car on track

with fresher tyres

and 3 DRS zones each lap

yet can't close a less than 1 second gap to even get alongside Max, much less pass him? I'll agree that Carlos isn't as consistent as Max across multiple laps...but even when he was on the ball he couldn't catch him, DRS or not.

DRS allowed Sainz to get closer, but he lost that advantage in the exit of the hairpin. Somehow, Max managed to pull away just enough to leave enough space to prevent Sainz from passing. Also, the Red Bull is very fast in the straights, even without DRS.

muzikant · Jun 20, 2022

According to the F1 experts, the Ferrari was faster in Canada itself Saintz admits that.. But the real experts are of course at Racedepartment

Ferrari was in Qualy the fastest in Australia, Monaco, Spain, Miami, Bahrain, Azerbaijan,
all in this year, I think RB is better on the medium tires and Ferrari in the softs
Ferrari and RB are evenly matched that makes this season fun.

Damage Inc · Jun 20, 2022

Badwheels said:
Question. The people who got pissy the last 7 years Lewis won the championship and said "it's the car", does the same apply to Max? Just asking.

Question do the people that get "pissy" afetr ONE year of Max winning honestly think it compares to SEVEN years?

in answer to your question YES Max is now only capable of winning the WDC because the car is, when the car wasn't he couldn't. But as we've seen with the hoo hah over the regs this year I doubt the FIA will allow RB to dominate like Merc did. I don't recall the 2014 regs being called into question mid way through the season and the FIA getting involved.

Damage Inc · Jun 20, 2022

BP said:
I must say an excellent drive from start to finish from Max, as he didn't put a wheel wrong the entire race. I really thought Carlos had a chance, but that RB is quite fast on the straights...but given the bad luck he's had this season, P2 is a welcome change. Glad to see Lewis on the podium again.

@muzikant respectfully, I'd argue it's not much different than the Mercedes years, just that the roles got reversed this year...It's Red Bull's turn now, they have the new "rocketship"...combine that with Max's ability, the only thing that can stop them is car reliability, not competition (I'm assuming they're gonna triple-check Max's transmission after this race since Checo's failed).

It was quite obvious from this race: when Ferrari, the next best car, can't get alongside the RB on any of the straights, with such long overpowered DRS zones...RB is the Mercedes (who were really just the new Red Bulls after Vettel's dominant years lol)

To be fair current RB advantage nowhere near the level Merc had after 2014 reg changes and for a LOONG time after (too long). Also Vettel only dominated 2 of his 4 WDCs, the other 2 were VERY close. But I'm praying the FIA do not let things get as bad as the merc dominant era. Need to see Ferrari get on top of their recent issues and bring the fight to RB. I'd like to see another team (but not Merc) in the mix too.

Richard Wilks · Jun 20, 2022

Hamilton fans seem very worried with how quick or slow the Red Bull is compared with the opposition right now.

Maybe because this time Lewis's Back seemed perfectly fine?...

No race this year was a foregone conclusion. So its not even comparable with the Merc dominant years.

muzikant · Jun 20, 2022

It is also strange..that Lewis Hamilton did not have any pain in his back..

For the GP of Canada it was still the question whether he could drive at all, he recover very quickly

just in one week

rup.car · Jun 20, 2022

Can I suggest some F1 fans to look elsewhere for their kicks? F1 is about teams competing to win with better driver/machinery combo. And yes because of these dynamics so often we have insane pairs of peak drivers in the ultimate machines. Senna/Prost in McLaren, Schumacher in Ferrari, Vettel at Red Bull, Hamilton at Mercedes and now, it seems, Verstappen at Red Bull, and it's these drivers' merit to be in the superior machinery, as they only get this opportunity if they indeed call their attention with their skills (and a bit of timing luck).

That's exactly how this sport works, which is why we have a huge range of emotions, from utmost boredom when we are under the domination of those who we dislike, to the most epic underdog stories and dragonslayers killing (Alonso at Renault and now Max in 2021). That's how it works, there are lots of spec racing around the world which are extremely competitive and will give you multiple diverse podiums every week. Care to look for them? If you don't even want to go that far, take a look at F2, it's amazing, I love every second of the madness, and I get my overtaking/balanced competition kicks from it, which I also get from Indycars. Then it's the big boys time at F1/Motogp, with their boring dominations eras, which I love too.

Antony Snook · Jun 20, 2022

I have been there 3 times and it is a nice track. I am not a fan of summer and i always come back burned out like a lobster. There really is no shade for my sensitive skin. Rained out in qualifying so that was a weired grid. It seems like modern drivers don't drive as mutch in wet conditions these days. And oficials are quick to stop races. So the dry race must of pleased the drivers. It seems like Mercedes have solved pourpoising as Lewis was 3rd. Its very bumpy here thogh it looks flat. You cant rely see the bumps. Here in Canada cold winters and hot sumers cause the surface to make pot holes. Our roads are realy bad in Toronto because of it. I did not see the powder on track this year. They usualy put filler over pot holes and cars rip it up and a white powder to maintain track. Mayybe it was resurfaced. But yes a nice good clean race. I would rather they went to Mosport closer to me again but its old school and would not handle a modern Grandprix.

Antony Snook · Jun 20, 2022

muzikant said:
It is also strange..that Lewis Hamilton did not have any pain in his back..
For the GP of Canada it was still the question whether he could drive at all, he recover very quickly just in one week

Hes faking it like the football players. He just wants FIA to listen to him moan. Red Bull and Ferrari don't consider it much of a problem. So mercedes are doing something wrong. It could be the long wheelbase chassis that makes no scence in the modern eara or the faded out sidepod creating to much pressure. The FIA cant bend the rulles just becuse Mercedes have pulled a dud. They need to sandbag and drop down in constructors. Earn wind tunel time and work on 20223 chassis. You cant win them all.

pcraenme · Jun 20, 2022

Badwheels said:
Question. The people who got pissy the last 7 years Lewis won the championship and said "it's the car", does the same apply to Max? Just asking.

Yes, the car is always part of it. But I don’t think the current Red Bull car is so dominant as the Mercedes was for many years. Look at the pole positions this year for example. Also, the current RB car is not as reliable as the Mercedes was (and still is).

pcraenme · Jun 20, 2022

BP said:
Still doesn't add up to me...how can you be:

the fastest car on track

with fresher tyres

and 3 DRS zones each lap

yet can't close a less than 1 second gap to even get alongside Max, much less pass him? I'll agree that Carlos isn't as consistent as Max across multiple laps...but even when he was on the ball he couldn't catch him, DRS or not.

I'm not even talking about straight up defensive driving by Max...it didn't even really get to that point for those 15 laps...the closest Carlos got was 0.4 I believe, maybe 0.3...but never actually had a wheel alongside Max, even when he hit his marks right...at one point (I think it was lap 68 or 69) Carlos had a really good and close exit out of the hairpin + DRS and even then couldn't get alongside Max...that's what cemented it for me...that's pure power IMO.

Let's agree to disagree

I think cars that get within one second still loose some downforce, but not as much as years before. And the Ferrari this year is better on downforce and corners than the RB. RB is faster on the straights now and that is were most overtakes are happening… at the end of these straights.

paracletus · Jun 20, 2022

Yet to see evidence that Leclerk is any better than VB, SP, DR - let alone "the new senna" that some say.
2 race wins with the best car when MV was out... :/
VB (10 GP victories, including 1 last year) would have won two races with that Ferrari, as would all the rest of the drivers.

davehenrie · Jun 20, 2022

Was it my imagination? Did a car on the outside of Hamilton in a corner receive points-ending damage???? Again.

RedBull48 · Jun 21, 2022

Am I the only one to think the quali crash and Sergio's gearbox letting go are related? I understand he went head on into the tecpro and there was no lateral load thrown through the gearbox but it certainly seems they could be associated. RB has not had any gearbox issues yet this year and it just seems odd to me it just happened to let go after 8 running laps from his quali incident.

Badwheels · Jun 21, 2022

TRASGU said:
Yes, if he get to have a car half a second faster than the rest of the grid, then the car would be flattering him.

Normally only a very gifted driver can win a race in a car 0.3 seconds per lap slower, provided the rival driver is at least 0.3 seconds slower, nobody can operate outside of the laws of physics. The thing is: If you put a driver of the top 3 of the grid and you put him on a 0.3s faster car then not even Ayrton Senna resurrected in Nuvolari's body can beat a top 3 driver. The third best driver on the grid isn't 0.3s slower than the faster driver on the grid, probably not even the 5th.

Just in last year's karting world championship in the final 11 drivers where within 0.4s from the fastest lap of the race, and 6 within 3 tenths. If The F1 drivers are the best of the best it isn't unreasonable to think that the top 5 drivers on the F1 grid are no more than 3 tenths slower than the fastest driver on the grid. And I think that we can convene that F1 drivers are no worse than those kids still on karting, so the time deltas could be even smaller.

When nobody on the grid has a car within 3 tenths nobody can even compete unless the drivers on the dominant car are complete incompetents, when a car is 0.5s faster the drivers of any other team are only there as filler NPC's. At that point you have to admit that a person in a car half a second per lap faster has nobody else to compete with other than his own team mate, and if said team mate is clearly a lesser driver the outcome is one in where a driver sets records everywhere seeming like a flawless invincible god. Hamilton had that privilege for 8 seasons straight (yes Rosberg was a lesser driver, even Max made him look like a complete fool on few occasions during his championship winning year), in some years he had a car more than a second and a half faster than anybody else, and a top speed advantage close to 15km/h.

Now Hamilton no longer has a car 0.5s+ faster than the rest of the grid and has a competitive team mate, he no longer looks unbeatable and mighty as in 2014-2020, proving that the car flattered him as it would have done to anybody else to the grid if they had a chance to be on his seat. Anybody that could have beaten Bottas and Rosberg would had won championships non stop on that car.

If he is the best driver in F1 history as a small and very noisy part of his fans that is very toxic like to brag about he should be either destroying Russel by now, or be at least very close to him on points. He has the exact same car as him and until now it has been a deja vu of 2014 Vettel's season in where Ricciardo made a lot of fans to ask themselves a lot of questions about Vettel.

The thing is: in his whole career Max only has had a car 0.5s faster in a whole race in no more than 5 races, Hamilton has had that privilege for 8 years straight, hundreds and hundreds of races. People wanted to see a car competition, cars fighting with a real chance to win, not nearly a full decade of parades race after race nor knowing in the second week of testing in February who's going to win the WDC and WCC, that was soul crushing.

If you look to the scores as are right now on paper Red Bull has a very dominant car this year. And then if you look at it closer then it turns out that Ferrari had a car capable to be put on pole and with the pace to be capable to win all the races until now with the exception of Imola in where the red bull was clearly 2 tenths faster.

Red Bull won all those races this year with the exception of Imola because of: reliability issues, the strategy clowns that pick their strategies and the pit stop clown mechanics. It is not Red Bull bullying them on pace, is Ferrari throwing away a championship on pure incompetence grounds. They can make a pole 0.35s faster and still manage to loose the race somehow. Ferrari needs to get their **** together, if they do they still can win both championships.

Making comparisons between 2022 to the most dominant era in motorsport history is absurd, nobody could fight consistently against Mercedes for almost a decade, and Leclerc in other circumstances now would be the championship leader with a very good margin, it isn't he speed of the cars like in the 2014-2020 era that it is making this championship seem one sided, it is the incompetency of Ferrari operating that car, they have been until now incapable to live up to their car and first driver true potential. The car more than fast enough to win both championships.

That is a very elegant dissertation on the merits of the car in pursuit of a championship. I applaud you. Now based on what everyone seems to think, the car is a huge part of the quest for a championship. Which I agree, but to flat say "it's the car" it's just stoopid. Ferrari has a car. Ferrari also has the Marx Brothers running the show. I think Russell is an example of the car being a difference. He is placing way above where he placed in the Williams.

But to me it's interesting how everyone can have the same blueprint for producing a car and some get it so wrong. I get when Merc, Ferrari and RB could just outspend everyone, but even a dog of Merc is still better than the rest of the grid.

RichardHessels · Jun 22, 2022

pai said:
Because, simply put, Sainz is not even close to Verstappen's level. With a stronger car and younger tyres he could not nail the hairpin, losing two crucial tenths between corner exit and DRS activation point every single lap. And when Verstappen pushed even more in the last 3 laps, Sainz's reply was a series of mistakes that killed his chances.

Max outdrove Carlos. The former proved why he's a world champion and cemented his position at the top of the standings even further. The latter showed lack of nerve and precision for beating a WDC, and provided even more reasons to nominate himself as the clear #2 driver at Ferrari.

Driving close to a car before you still gives a lot less downforce, even with the new groundeffect.
So overheating (hot air from the car before you) and lockups (less downforce) are the downsides of driving withing a few tenths. Braking exactly right before the hairpin is much more difficult.
And yes Verstappen is a bit better than Sainz.

2022 Formula One Canadian Grand Prix

Who will win the Canadian Grand Prix

Verstappen

Perez

Leclerc

Russell

Sainz

Hamilton

Norris

Other driver

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