Worried about the future of rF2

[Richard Eriksson]

As the topic suggests...

As a long time ISI supporter and follower, i am now feeling a bit worried for the future.The number of new users coming in to rFactor2 seems to be dwindling.

Also there is a long time between the new official content. And even when there is official content released, it seems to fail to gather an interest (Civics in December) amongst the yet unitiated.

Also, the mod community seems a lot more reluctant than for rF1, with very few members adding content.This is even more worrying as it was the foundation of rF1 and a big selling point for bringing more people to the franchise (race anything you like).

ISI now also faces a stiff competition as the "sim" genre has become "hot" again with more titles in the works, that seem to gather a LOT more interest: AC, pCars etc.

The old veterans like myself are finding ourselves drawn to the likes of GSC, and newcomers are moving towards AC and probably DTM Experience.


I start this topic to see if someone shares my worries, and also to discuss if something can be done to once again bring more interest to rF2?


My personal idea is to go for Steam greenlighting (i actually REALLY like Steam as a platform), to gain exposure and also simplify the purchasing as well as updating.
Connecting it to Workshop makes modding interesting again, like what AC proposes.


I want rF2 to succeed, it is by far the most comprehensive take on simulating the actual race mechanics and based on that it should be the goto title for the serious sim-user, but right now i fear it is not.


Discussions on graphics i will however discard personally, as a) rF2 is pretty enough and b) the prettiest of settings in something like pCars is inaccesible to 95% of users.


So, what is your view of the status of the product?



Points of improvement needed going forward as identified in this thread so far:

* Better GUI (incoming)
* Steam integration and release
* Possible new distribution method that would automate updates and sync, if not steam
* New official content
* More transparent development
* Shorter build intervals
* More efficient code and optimization of codebase
* A possibility to "lock down" the core functionality, to deliver something considered stable and final
* New updater that allows automatic updating of content as well, including adding NEW
content

 

[John Peat]

I dont know what you did to have such buggy water. That is not normal for this track.

I loaded the game and played it - if that's not "normal" I'm not sure what is ;0

 

[Richard Eriksson]

My GPU is GTX680 at a substantial factory overclock. Running Adaptive vsync on and max prerendered frames set to 1 in nvidia control panel globally (i advice this for sorting various kepler cpu and stutter bugs). In game, it's all max except shadows on medium. Nets me anywhere from 75 to 150 fps if unlocked, with 25 AI at Monaco. No graphical glitches.

At the moment i am running the latest WHQL drivers.

 

[jimortality]

My GPU is GTX680 at a substantial factory overclock. Running Adaptive vsync on and max prerendered frames set to 1 in nvidia control panel globally (i advice this for sorting various kepler cpu and stutter bugs). In game, it's all max except shadows on medium. Nets me anywhere from 75 to 150 fps if unlocked, with 25 AI at Monaco. No graphical glitches.

At the moment i am running the latest WHQL drivers.

I have the GTX770 with adaptive sync but I will check the prerendered frames setting. I get 60fps but I think my fps may be locked?

 

[Richard Eriksson]

@Jim Brailsford , the 770 is basically a rebranded 680 at stock speeds, so you should definitely benefit from the prerendered frames setting. And adaptive vsync will lock your framerate to the display rate. Something i very much prefer, as the tearing and stutters drives me mad if not synced.

 

[jimortality]

@Jim Brailsford , the 770 is basically a rebranded 680 at stock speeds, so you should definitely benefit from the prerendered frames setting. And adaptive vsync will lock your framerate to the display rate. Something i very much prefer, as the tearing and stutters drives me mad if not synced.

Ok that's all good but you're getting higher fps is that because you have a higher refresh rate monitor as mine is only 60hz.

 

[Richard Eriksson]

@Jim Brailsford , as i wrote "unlocked" i would get those numbers. Meaning if i turn adaptive off. With it on i roll a stable 60 as well.

 

[jimortality]

@Jim Brailsford , as i wrote "unlocked" i would get those numbers. Meaning if i turn adaptive off. With it on i roll a stable 60 as well.

Ah ok, I'm happy with 60 fps so just need to tweek a few things and see if i can improve the graphics without losing performance

 

[Richard Eriksson]

@Jim Brailsford , the only thing really killing my framerate are shadows on maximum (also introduces glitching) and rain, if i have 20+ ai cars generating spray. The rain appears to be a bug sort of, as it really kills the GPU with 100% usage as soon as there is enough water spray.

Other than that, you should be good on 4x AA and 8x aniso filtering, details full, without dropping frames, even with large grids...

 

[jimortality]

@Jim Brailsford , the only thing really killing my framerate are shadows on maximum (also introduces glitching) and rain, if i have 20+ ai cars generating spray. The rain appears to be a bug sort of, as it really kills the GPU with 100% usage as soon as there is enough water spray.

Other than that, you should be good on 4x AA and 8x aniso filtering, details full, without dropping frames, even with large grids...

Ok Richard thanks for all your help

 

[John Peat]

Not wanting to be a doom-monger but I threw-in-the-towel with my rF2 trial and called-in the refund option after just 4 days.

The main issues I had - the things which made me feel it wasn't worth the money - were

1 - track loading times are slower than slow
2 - some cars I tried are clearly broken (Skippy, Howston) - even the AI can't drive them!
3 - shadow chasing, pop-up, mirror fog and texture flicker is very distracting - it's a pet peeve because it's far from a game breaker but it annoys me
4 - online (which you pay for) is dead - one factor might be that the server browser is hilariously **** - no filter, no search and it looks like it was coded in the 90s!

There were some good bits - but they just couldn't win over the clearly unfinished bits.

In particular I managed some great races with lower-end cars (Clios at Limerock, Classic F3 at Silverstone) - the Camaros is a hooligan's delight and the F1-pretendalike drives exactly how I'd expect it to.

The classic tracks don't lack for detail either - if they just didn't glitch so much - you can't get away from the passion which has clearly driven a lot of what's in there tho.

Hope you all get a blast from it - if nothing else it's the toughest racer I've played but the control setup options are super-thorough (as a padder, that's a big deal to me) so I guess it's a matter of time - possibly lots of time - and I think I need a quicker "hit" ;0

Thanks for the tips and *waves*

 

[Jason Hunt]

Those are reasonable comments, fair play.

Funnily enough, I've done the opposite and upgraded to lifetime as my original license expired last month. And I don't even go on-line.

The big draw for me is the ffb and the feedback you get from the cars - feeling the weight shift (visibly and through the wheel) and audio cues. I don't think the physics are perfect. I would say, on balance, AC is a bit more realistic but rF2 is superior in driver involvement and feedback.

As rF2 will continue to develop and all new content is free, I chose to give ISI more money.

 

[David O'Reilly]

I did a test session last night at Silverstone preparing for a 6 hour race in the Lola LMP1.
My team mate and I were on teamspeak, did a couple of driver swaps, talked strategy made a decsion about a gear ratio. Scoped out the pace of the other teams.
It was great.

 

[John Peat]

There's a huge danger in comparing games but I play a lot of AC and I like it (I liked nkPro before it too) - it feels how I think a driving games should feel, tho it's physics have some issues.

rF2 is looser and harder to drive overall - esp for a padder but obviously the game with better FFB will be the winner for anyone on a wheel!

I deliberately avoided almost all the third-party content so I could just judge the game I paid for - I broke that rule for a run around the 'Ring mod tho and it was TERRIFYING. Tthe GTR felt like a monster truck and the track felt 2' wide - if you want a challenge, this is the place to get it for sure - I can't speak for realistic having only ever lapped the place once (in a hired diesel Golf) but you'll feel heroic if you get within a week of a good AI qualifying time ;0

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

There's a huge danger in comparing games but I play a lot of AC and I like it (I liked nkPro before it too) - it feels how I think a driving games should feel, tho it's physics have some issues.

rF2 is looser and harder to drive overall - esp for a padder but obviously the game with better FFB will be the winner for anyone on a wheel!

I deliberately avoided almost all the third-party content so I could just judge the game I paid for - I broke that rule for a run around the 'Ring mod tho and it was TERRIFYING. Tthe GTR felt like a monster truck and the track felt 2' wide - if you want a challenge, this is the place to get it for sure - I can't speak for realistic having only ever lapped the place once (in a hired diesel Golf) but you'll feel heroic if you get within a week of a good AI qualifying time ;0

With "only" a gamepad you are really missing out on what rFactor2 can deliver and for sure other games will fit that a lot better. If you have once driven rF2 on a reasonable FFB wheel you will be amazed. The feeling through the wheel in rF2 is the best I have come across so far.

 

[Gijs van Elderen]

I believe @Nicolas Delamare did a Club race with a game pad. And i think he did a pretty decent job with it. Maybe we should do the Remote Controle cars again.

 

[Ricky78]

My GPU is GTX680 at a substantial factory overclock. Running Adaptive vsync on and max prerendered frames set to 1 in nvidia control panel globally (i advice this for sorting various kepler cpu and stutter bugs). In game, it's all max except shadows on medium. Nets me anywhere from 75 to 150 fps if unlocked, with 25 AI at Monaco. No graphical glitches.

At the moment i am running the latest WHQL drivers.

Hi Richard, which is your CPU?

 

[Richard Eriksson]

@Ricky78, Intel I5 3570k, overclocked at 4.3GHz. across all four cores constant (no throttling or speedstep active). Bus speed slightly increased.

 

[Nicolas Delamare]

Thanks to tag me Gijs ! Indeed, I play rF2 with a pad (the Xbox 360 official).In fact, I have never buy any steering-wheel, and since 6 years of sim-racing gaming (on an amateur mode), I managed to improve my level year after year.Of course I have always put the aids off, in order to have the best "feeling" of the car (maybe it's a big word) !
It began with F1 Challenge and its plethor of mods, then F1 2010 (not really a sim-racing game), and finally rF1 and rF2 last year.

It's a different playing game than with a steering-wheel: because I can't have a physical feeling of the car (no FFB neither vibration on my pad), I have to play with my brain and my eyes only !!


I can't feel the bumpyness of the track, but I can see it lap after lap ! I am not able to feel the car runing wide so I have to drive clean before it happens !
Some feelings are missing for me, but take a look at the following lines and you will understand me:

I have the impression to control my car with the top of my fingers, and because neither my feet or hands are moving, it's just like driving by the thought: it's a magical effect, and in certains sessions, after about 40 min focusing on the center of my screen, It's just like I have the car in my hands, I don't feel my body, I don't see the edge of my screen, I carry my headset, no people talking around me, no pet climbing on my thighs, no ringphone,...

I feel i'm in the game without the advanced technical advices, but with my mind, my body and its trouble are disconnected of the reality: I can play at my best !

And no steering-wheel players will be able to have that special feeling: it's a very different sensivity, and when you're used to the FFB, the track IR, the Oculus, the pedals, etc, you won't be able to get back to that kind of simplicity !

 

[Richard Eriksson]

@trjp, Neither the Howstons or the Skippy is "broken". The Howstons behave very alike to a 60s/early 70s prototype car (and i have actually driven one once in real life, they are SCARY on cold tires).

I have not driven the Skip Barber formulas in real life (bieng a scandinavian), but i have raced in Formula Ford Euros, and i am telling you... That insane lift off oversteer is real as far as i can tell. You can cure it in rF2, the same way you would in real life, by shifting weight to the back and running a negative rake (car tilts to the back). This will affect turn in.

The trick to driving them is to maintain throttle at all times. NEVER lift in a corner. EVER.

I think they feel accurate and a lot better than how similiar is modeled in iRacing for instance...

But with a gamepad they would of course be impossible to drive, due to the sticks very short analog range.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

To me sim racing with a gamepad feels just as odd as playing a shooter with a steering-wheel. Of course it can be done, but its ... wrong.