Worried about the future of rF2

[Richard Eriksson]

As the topic suggests...

As a long time ISI supporter and follower, i am now feeling a bit worried for the future.The number of new users coming in to rFactor2 seems to be dwindling.

Also there is a long time between the new official content. And even when there is official content released, it seems to fail to gather an interest (Civics in December) amongst the yet unitiated.

Also, the mod community seems a lot more reluctant than for rF1, with very few members adding content.This is even more worrying as it was the foundation of rF1 and a big selling point for bringing more people to the franchise (race anything you like).

ISI now also faces a stiff competition as the "sim" genre has become "hot" again with more titles in the works, that seem to gather a LOT more interest: AC, pCars etc.

The old veterans like myself are finding ourselves drawn to the likes of GSC, and newcomers are moving towards AC and probably DTM Experience.


I start this topic to see if someone shares my worries, and also to discuss if something can be done to once again bring more interest to rF2?


My personal idea is to go for Steam greenlighting (i actually REALLY like Steam as a platform), to gain exposure and also simplify the purchasing as well as updating.
Connecting it to Workshop makes modding interesting again, like what AC proposes.


I want rF2 to succeed, it is by far the most comprehensive take on simulating the actual race mechanics and based on that it should be the goto title for the serious sim-user, but right now i fear it is not.


Discussions on graphics i will however discard personally, as a) rF2 is pretty enough and b) the prettiest of settings in something like pCars is inaccesible to 95% of users.


So, what is your view of the status of the product?



Points of improvement needed going forward as identified in this thread so far:

* Better GUI (incoming)
* Steam integration and release
* Possible new distribution method that would automate updates and sync, if not steam
* New official content
* More transparent development
* Shorter build intervals
* More efficient code and optimization of codebase
* A possibility to "lock down" the core functionality, to deliver something considered stable and final
* New updater that allows automatic updating of content as well, including adding NEW
content

 

[Simon Christmann]

Skippy tyres can be changed to 'national' in the car selection screen.

They are a lot more gippier.

Yeah by default you have only the version with wet tires

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

I have to say it - if a game NEEDS a wheel to drive it, it's going to struggle to sell enough copies to make it viable in the current market - that's not conducive with the game being developed properly...

Fortunately, I don't think the controller is the problem - the config works well, I just don't believe the big-end of a tonne of car would slide as much at lower speeds as the Howston does. I fully expect finding traction to be an issue - I expect it to squirm and fight and need skill to direct-it but I don't expect it to do 4 wheel understeer slides at 30mph like it's running on ice and I need an AI who can drive it too!!

The Skippy in iRacing is a brilliant training car and a sweet drive. Here it's a challenging, moody and relatively slow car. That's like putting a 911 into your game and making it wheezy and understeery ;0

I think part of my problem was getting heat into the tyres (the Skippy is also locked to treaded tyres??) and another part is the 'rubbering in' aspect of the 'real road' system. I suspect these start-out a bit OTT so you notice their effect - but not everyone wants to run 20 laps just to get things working - is there an 'optimal track' option somewhere? I didnt' find one...

Remember - you want MORE people playing the game because that means more development being done. No use being elitist and demanding players have a few hundred-bucks of kit and throw in a tonne of time to "find the fun".

Well, unless you like the tumbleweeds already blowing through the game...

At the end of the day rF2 is a pure simulation and they won't optimize the game for gamepad user as it is not their audience. Gamepad players are the ultimate exception here. You can use AI and time accelerating to create a line it will take you 5min. Compared to sims like AC the line is completely dynamic, so presets are useless, but you can save it everytime, so you only have the issue once per track. One of the challenges is to find the rubbered line, which will change depending on the drivers you race against. That alone is much easier with a wheel as you can feel it in the FFB:

It is a niche market and yes in my opinion you do need a wheel to have real fun with rF2. I mean to get it running you need to have a PC that costs at least 800€, you pay 70€ for a lifetime license and then you can't pick up a used Logitech G25 or G27 for 150€?!
These wheels are not expensive at all and the level of FFB they deliver is really great even compared to wheels, which cost 1000€. For me races in rF2 can even deliver more intensity than real kart races and last night I had a 1hour 20min race in the Indy cars with top level drivers fighting for the lead 61Laps with all three being in a span of 4 seconds or less for almost the whole race. I was so mentally exhausted after that and to do this sort of racing in real life I would need to spend 10.000€+.

ISI just wouldn't sell that much more copies of rF2 with perfect gamepad driveability. There are other games out there that will bring you here and most of the time you will already have a wheel, but complaining about physics on a green track when using a gamepad is just useless. Next time I will complain, that I can't drive a stick shift car properly without my right arm.

 

[James Maskell]

I really do not think rf2 is for you haha. Requires a bit more than complaining about a green track and how cars that require practice are hard to drive....

 

[John Peat]

The last 2 posts demonstrate everything I dislike about the sim racing community.

This thread was started by someone concerned about the state of rFactor2 and so, having tried it, I posted my concerns and experiences.

They're mostly unconnected to my control method (unless my controller is causing the long loads times, graphical issues and AI's driving problems!?) and yet we're banging-on on about it anyway like it's the only issue!?

End of the day, I didn't refund it because I couldn't drive it 1 car or just because loading times were long. I refunded it because a combination of things make me feel it's an incomplete product not worth it's cost at this point. I'm not impatient, but I see little evidence of improvement when I read forums - I see issues which are months and months old - I see whole Youtube videos lamenting those issues and I see next-to-no-one playing online in a game made to do just that!?

This thread documents rF2 concerns - I've made mine clear - it would be nice if you could address them instead of attacking me or putting me down because that isn't going to change much.

it would also be nice if they responded to my refund request - 4 days isn't the customer service I'd expect tbh

 

[Simon Christmann]

...This thread documents rF2 concerns - I've made mine clear - it would be nice if you could address them instead of attacking me or putting me down because that isn't going to change much...

Short question? Why should somebody else address your concerns when you can post it by your own in the official forum. Then you are sure that it will be addressed in the way you want it. There will you get respond from the developers directly.

 

[John Peat]

Short question? Why should somebody else address your concerns when you can post it by your own in the official forum. Then you are sure that it will be addressed in the way you want it. There will you get respond from the developers directly.

I didn't post asking anyone to address my concerns directly - if they're going to do it tho, I'd like positive suggestions rather than "you're doing it wrong" and "you suck - go away".

Effectively, you just said "why raise concerns about rF2 in a thread discussing EXACTLY that" - there's 17 pages of it so you just told everyone in this thread that they shouldn't talk about a racing game on a forum about that racing game but should instead go elsewhere?

Am I somehow not welcome here - I was going to go Premium but perhaps I need a wheel to do that too?

I'd not want to lose control mid-sentence and actually hit someone's feelings ;0

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

I think a big problem is, that your issues are not a common thing. Look at the video @Gijs van Elderen posted a few pages earlier. There is no flashing water or anything there. I only have the popping problem with poor mod content. Seems really like something is broken with your graphics card or graphic profile, driver, whatever. The only point I could understand was, that the AI was broken in one car and track combination fair enough, but if you look at something like AC there the whole AI is broken, but rarely someone complains. It is not good, but in all combinations I drove so far in 2,5 year the AI was fine. Sometimes better, sometimes not that great, but always raceable and competetive.

Loading times are infact a bit long, but it is not too bad as you usually stay on a server or track longer than in other games. My league race yesterday took 2 hours with qualy, warm-up and race, so I personally don't care about 1 minute loading times. If you stay on each track 5min and searching for quick 3 lap racing every other game will be better than rF2 even if it would load in 2 seconds.

 

[John Peat]

I'm not going to get into an argument about how long is too long and who's fault graphical issues might be - you have to grasp that people hold their own views, you cannot browbeat them with your own.

It's great you like it - quite awesome in fact - you've made that point, I've made mine - we're going in circles and whilst we LIKE that in cars, we DON'T like that with words ;0

edited for language by admin

 

[David O'Reilly]

You have had some solutions provided, just not the ones you wanted. That doesnt mean no one helped.

 

[James Maskell]

So now that we have voiced our opinion as well, we are being portrayed as the bad guys just because there are few of us that have the same opinion as you.... Because right now you are throwing your opinion around and bashing us over the head with it when we are simply just stating ours as well. No one here is saying you have to agree, or to leave or even that you suck. And i am sorry if it feels that way but i highly doubt anyone here actually wants you to feel like that. We are simply discussing and comparing what we have experienced and feel to what you have experienced and feel.

Edit: also davids post

 

[Simon Christmann]

You have had some solutions provided, just not the ones you wanted. That doesnt mean no one helped.

And if we here find no solution it is the best to ask the developers directly.

@trjp
I didn't want to say you "suck". Maybe i misread it a bit . But "it would be nice if you could address them" sounds for me like address them to the developers. You have heard some answers here. If they don't help has here no one a solution for your specific graphical and gamepad problems. And then we are again at the official forum where it is best to ask for advice.

 

[Gijs van Elderen]

@trjp

http://isiforums.net/f/ Share your concerns politely to the developers.

 

[Jyri Kettunen]

It's a daft question but you did disable "Opposite Lock" in the aids? That auto-corrects oversteer for you - if you then try to do it, cars have a tendency to spear-off.

That's a fair question, but I drive with all help options off. David may be right about the car's behaviour and I just have to adapt.

 

[Matej Lakota]

Jyri, I found savegame of my qualy drive at LeMans and I recorded it onboard. I may upload video here, so you can see my throttle/break work in the curves, if you like.

 

[Jyri Kettunen]

Jyri, I found savegame of my qualy drive at LeMans and I recorded it onboard. I may upload video here, so you can see my throttle/break work in the curves, if you like.

Yes, please.

 

[Matej Lakota]

I use H shifter, clutch for upshift and just heel/toe for downshift, because (ATM) you don`t need to press clutch for that. I have 3 monitors so picture is streched, set it to 1080p, so you can see everything clear .

 

[TTupsi]

I mean to get it running you need to have a PC that costs at least 800€

I don't know how much FPS you consider is required to get rF2 running but I just built a new PC for less than 550€ last week and I get at least 60 FPS with high to full settings with full grid of cars.

 

[JeffL]

I don't think people are against controllers, but RF2, more that any other, is known to be a sim that seems to cater towards hardcore simmers. When you post criticism of the sim and state your using a controller (not that there is anything wrong with that) I would suspect you might not get the positive response you might be looking for.

 

[Jyri Kettunen]

Matej, from your video I can see very gentle, modulated use of the brake. I should adopt that, obviously. Been simming too many modern GT3s lately...

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

I don't know how much FPS you consider is required to get rF2 running but I just built a new PC for less than 550€ last week and I get at least 60 FPS with high to full settings with full grid of cars.

Yes a pure PC when you add 150€ for a monitor and 50€ for mouse and keyboard you have 750€ I know most people have old monitors and I prefer to run rF2 always above 100FPS, which was a lot harder with older drivers and older build. But haven't done research on current price etc. only wanted to say, that before you are simming you at least have spent 3 to 4 times the money of what a good used wheel will cost you.