Worried about the future of rF2

[Richard Eriksson]

As the topic suggests...

As a long time ISI supporter and follower, i am now feeling a bit worried for the future.The number of new users coming in to rFactor2 seems to be dwindling.

Also there is a long time between the new official content. And even when there is official content released, it seems to fail to gather an interest (Civics in December) amongst the yet unitiated.

Also, the mod community seems a lot more reluctant than for rF1, with very few members adding content.This is even more worrying as it was the foundation of rF1 and a big selling point for bringing more people to the franchise (race anything you like).

ISI now also faces a stiff competition as the "sim" genre has become "hot" again with more titles in the works, that seem to gather a LOT more interest: AC, pCars etc.

The old veterans like myself are finding ourselves drawn to the likes of GSC, and newcomers are moving towards AC and probably DTM Experience.


I start this topic to see if someone shares my worries, and also to discuss if something can be done to once again bring more interest to rF2?


My personal idea is to go for Steam greenlighting (i actually REALLY like Steam as a platform), to gain exposure and also simplify the purchasing as well as updating.
Connecting it to Workshop makes modding interesting again, like what AC proposes.


I want rF2 to succeed, it is by far the most comprehensive take on simulating the actual race mechanics and based on that it should be the goto title for the serious sim-user, but right now i fear it is not.


Discussions on graphics i will however discard personally, as a) rF2 is pretty enough and b) the prettiest of settings in something like pCars is inaccesible to 95% of users.


So, what is your view of the status of the product?



Points of improvement needed going forward as identified in this thread so far:

* Better GUI (incoming)
* Steam integration and release
* Possible new distribution method that would automate updates and sync, if not steam
* New official content
* More transparent development
* Shorter build intervals
* More efficient code and optimization of codebase
* A possibility to "lock down" the core functionality, to deliver something considered stable and final
* New updater that allows automatic updating of content as well, including adding NEW
content

 

[John Peat]

Ah - I did have everything whacked-up to full - reducing Shadows and some other bits does seem to have improved performance quite a bit ;0

I ran a few races in the demo - my PC is nothing special and it looks fine/runs 60+ fps - but a couple of things did grate.

The Mirror
I'm being chased by an all-consuming wall of fog - it looks naff and objects sometimes pop-in and out which is distracting - no biggie but it feels a bit 90s.

Rain
It rained during one session - well mostly - the rain itself would appear/disappear at random (it did so 2-3 times leaving the pitlane!!) The lighting/mood as the rain eased-off was excellent but the way the drops are sometimes visible/sometimes not is, again, distracting. Also, there's a "wipers" button but no rain hits the windshield/no wipers seem to exist on the Civic at least?

Rolling-over
They're very keen on their '2 wheels or less' physics but it's a bit silly at times - a small nudge or a kerb ride will often end in a 'NASCAR style' 10xend-over-end - I like the 2 wheels thing but it needs less 'landmine' aftermath ;0

Handling
It's a FWD 300bhp car which initially felt terrible - but the sage advice of 'keep your foot in' works, you need to have the power-on pretty much always. It kinda crumbles in the wet tho - on a fully wet track you have to CRAWL - it just feels much too loose. The 'dry line' worked eventually but as it was a qual. session I got disabled DQs by the million testing that out (I also noticed that restarting the session does not restart the lap counter for qualifying so you get told to pit on lap 1!!)

The demo is version 700-odd which is quite some way behind the finished product tho?

I know some of those things sound like minor issues but they just feel a bit - well - unfinished...

 

[Turbigno]

I believed in the project rFactor 2, and after more than 1 year I had to change my mind, every build always the same problem, I have installed and uninstalled the game at least 20 times, and the loss of time to install all the mods. The servers are always empty, many times I entered and there being no one had to give up, too bad because I also enjoyed it.

The thing that infuriates me more than anything is that I can not update the game because the expired license on-line, this is unacceptable from my point of view, it is as if I went to a mechanic to fix a car in warranty and they told me, you'll do ok with the parts and install them, absurd, the game I bought it!

Another sore point, games like racing trim, project cars etc do not pay to play online, buy the game and have fun always, even online .... times have changed and should take note.

I'm sorry for my bad english
Greetings to all from a former player of rFactor 2.

 

[Jason Hunt]

Apparently, the lack of upgrade is a mistake this time and I understand it will be brought back for all users next time.

 

[jimortality]

So how is it since yesterdays update? I've seen a youtube vid showing a race with the brabham at Nordsheiffe. It looks stunning yet when I play the game, mine doesn't look anything like lol. I'm still not sure about RF2 and I'm the same with RRE, just not sure how I feel about them. I want to like them all but......

 

[Jason Hunt]

My 15 minute try didn't spot anything obviously different. Not surprising really.
rF2 seems to range from garish overly colourful tracks (e.g. converted tracks) to beautifully contrasty landscapes. Feels3's tracks are great for this.
I've turned HDR off for the short term and while this kills off any fancy effects and makes the game a lot duller, it removes all of the fancy effects (hdr itself is a gimmick) and garish colours.
Autumn Nords looks amazing with detailed track and scenery with HDR off.
I'm going to try hdr on and off but, overall, I think rF2 is better with it off - at the expense of colour and brightness.

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

I believed in the project rFactor 2, and after more than 1 year I had to change my mind, every build always the same problem, I have installed and uninstalled the game at least 20 times, and the loss of time to install all the mods. The servers are always empty, many times I entered and there being no one had to give up, too bad because I also enjoyed it.

The thing that infuriates me more than anything is that I can not update the game because the expired license on-line, this is unacceptable from my point of view, it is as if I went to a mechanic to fix a car in warranty and they told me, you'll do ok with the parts and install them, absurd, the game I bought it!

Another sore point, games like racing trim, project cars etc do not pay to play online, buy the game and have fun always, even online .... times have changed and should take note.

I'm sorry for my bad english
Greetings to all from a former player of rFactor 2.

There is no need to re-install mods with every update. You can also update the game just fine without on-line subscription (apart from this build which had some issues). You can still download latest lite build from rfactor2 website, that will always update it.

Other companies finance their sim through other means. In iRacing you pay both for online and content, in Assetto Corsa you pay 20 something € for each upcoming DLC. pCars will probably also have DLCs while in rF2 all release content is free.

 

[David O'Reilly]

I do not understand (the admittedly reducing number of) peoples complaints about the pricing model.
I used to play Codemasters F1 title here. It is appr £40.00 which you have to pay each year as everyone flocks like migratory birds to the new one whether its better or not and it isn't always better.
Then its £40.00 per year for X Box live.
Thats £80.00 per year
For 1 type of car, legally un-moddable, and 19 tracks
RF2 is considerably less than that for life.
For so far about 30-40 cars and a track list that will grow forever.
The game is continually being enhanced.

ISI were forced into charging to play online because its the only way to stop hackers stealing their work. Don't know about you but I think the games better value if ISI continue to be in business and keep refining it.

The game is awesome (that's a personal view)
but please don't tell me its expensive because categorically it isn't.

 

[John Peat]

I have to admit that the price, whilst a BIT high, isn't really that bad - pCars will likely cost the same (or more) and WILL have DLC (no DLC has ever been discussed for Assetto Corsa that I'm aware of - tho if it comes and I want it, and it's worth it, I'll buy it!)

I don't really see the value in the 'lifetime' subs tho - you are paying for almost FIVE YEARS of online access and it pushes the cost up quite a bit.

I'm happier to resub if I'm still playing in a years time - over paying a lot now, but that's just me of course.

 

[David O'Reilly]

I have to admit that the price, whilst a BIT high, isn't really that bad - pCars will likely cost the same (or more) and WILL have DLC (no DLC has ever been discussed for Assetto Corsa that I'm aware of - tho if it comes and I want it, and it's worth it, I'll buy it!)

I don't really see the value in the 'lifetime' subs tho - you are paying for almost FIVE YEARS of online access and it pushes the cost up quite a bit.

I'm happier to resub if I'm still playing in a years time - over paying a lot now, but that's just me of course.

payback is actually 3 years.

 

[Turbigno]

There is no need to re-install mods with every update. You can also update the game just fine without on-line subscription (apart from this build which had some issues). You can still download latest lite build from rfactor2 website, that will always update it.

Other companies finance their sim through other means. In iRacing you pay both for online and content, in Assetto Corsa you pay 20 something € for each upcoming DLC. pCars will probably also have DLCs while in rF2 all release content is free.

I used autoupdate, but on time every time malfunctioned or was not started on the support forum ISI advised installing a "clean"

The installation manual does not interest me, I bought the game and I expect the autoupdate

As to the finance of other games, now in Assetto Corsa dlc for payment have not yet seen, when we will be happy to pay 10 euro for additional tracks and cars (although there are mods that I do not see then the need ) ...and we are not obliged

 

[Miroslav Davidovic]

The installation manual does not interest me, I bought the game and I expect the autoupdate

You get what you pay for! It was clear since the beginning.

They have been so kind and enabled autoupdate for the people who haven't payed for it and people still manage to mimimimimi....

I do understand that a mass complaining over the net makes you feel like you are in the right or something but it still isn't the case. What you expect or not is not to debate at all normaly.
And they still have enabled it which I think is a misstake. They have a demo and a refund policy for over 7 days. It was even for 6 months at a point. People still complain. rF2 is like the complaining base of the sim teens.

It still stays, you get what you pay for.

Try to complain at iRacing why you don't get updates if you don't pay for it. Or even why you can't play it offline. Try to complain in any game why you don't get DLS's if you don't pay for it. Good luck.

Ridiculous!

 

[Turbigno]

I paid for a game that I knew would be complete after one year I have not seen great strides, so I have not renewed their subscription online.
The graphics painful, after one year are still with the usual problems, not to mention the fleet ridiculous.

and ... I should even pay to play online and find all the servers empty?
no thanks

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

Probably you are comparing to some modded tracks, the graphics are pretty good if tracks/cars are properly tuned for rF2 engine, like newest content of ISI.

 

[Richard Eriksson]

I honestly find rF2 to be the most "real" looking of the sims on market now... Maybe not the most gpu magic and effects vut that in turn makes it look authentic to me.

If you look at pCars or AC (being DX11) they look good of course, but also artificial somehow.

Ironically, the lack of special effects make rF2 more gpu heavy than AC for example, as it is more about polycount, rather than effects to enhance the realism.

 

[John Addison]

Plane and simple....rf2 looked to be the real deal but it has caused nothing but issues. It seems that nearly every user has a different problem and most get worse with each update. I install all the updates as they come along but I havent been on track for months because my TM F1 wheel just flops from side to side. Never an issue in rf1 nor AC or any other. Just rf2. And the graphics ...well really they need something. And Im running a pretty high end rig. I mean Iracing and AC make them look really behind the 8 ball. Not to mention all the early billing issues. I paid for life and got a new bill a few months ago had to pay for the year or loose it?? Simply too many issues.

 

[John Peat]

Probably you are comparing to some modded tracks, the graphics are pretty good if tracks/cars are properly tuned for rF2 engine, like newest content of ISI.

The one track which seems to suffer more issues than any other is the official iSi provided classic 'Monte Carlo' track.

All that stuff right next to the track works the engine to it's limits but there are SO many issues - stuff popping-up, lighting changes, a 'shadow' which races ahead of the car as the world gains/loses detail etc. etc.

TBH I'd rather they chose a consistent quality level and stuck with that - I don't want the world to 'focus and blur' as I drive through it because that's distracting (as are things appearing/gaining and losing shadows etc. etc.)

I grabbed a video of the latest build - AI driver in practice - check the water (really - WTF!!) then check the pop-up, the detail issues (tunnel wall in-car is hypnotic!) etc. (the latter part is on-car and more obvious)

Note: quality reduction because 1.6Gb videos aren't really uploadable - fps and stutter are capture/Youtube issues - there are other videos of this online which show the same issue too - it's kinda grating

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

The one track which seems to suffer more issues than any other is the official iSi provided classic 'Monte Carlo' track.

All that stuff right next to the track works the engine to it's limits but there are SO many issues - stuff popping-up, lighting changes, a 'shadow' which races ahead of the car as the world gains/loses detail etc. etc.

TBH I'd rather they chose a consistent quality level and stuck with that - I don't want the world to 'focus and blur' as I drive through it because that's distracting (as are things appearing/gaining and losing shadows etc. etc.)

I grabbed a video of the latest build - AI driver in practice - check the water (really - WTF!!) then check the pop-up, the detail issues (tunnel wall in-car is hypnotic!) etc. (the latter part is on-car and more obvious)

Note: quality reduction because 1.6Gb videos aren't really uploadable - fps and stutter are capture/Youtube issues - there are other videos of this online which show the same issue too - it's kinda grating

I dont know what you did to have such buggy water. That is not normal for this track.

 

[Richard Eriksson]

@trjp, i have no pop in at all, on the same track. Neither on objects, shadows or textures. Also my textures are sharper than i see in your vid, esp. the tarmac. My water does not flicker like that either. Maybe a driver bug? What video hw are you running?

 

[jimortality]

@trjp, i have no pop in at all, on the same track. Neither on objects, shadows or textures. Also my textures are sharper than i see in your vid, esp. the tarmac. My water does not flicker like that either. Maybe a driver bug? What video hw are you running?

Richard can I ask what you have your display settings and what card you have cheers

 

[John Peat]

I have a GTX 650Ti 2Gb - latest nVidia drivers - game is running from SSD - 8Gb RAM W7-64 i5-4440

Note that the video is reduced in quality quite a bit - the original was almost 2Gb - I had to hack that down quite a bit so textures etc. are poorer - but the flicker/pop-in is unchanged.

Options-wise everything is maxed, except shadows (Medium), Shadow Blur (Optimal), Road/Env Reflect. are Low (because they are OTT in the extreme) and Wind/Movement is off (as is Auto Detail FPS)

That's 40-60fps depending on the track - (40 at Monaco or in traffic - 60 most everywhere else) but lowering the settings just magnifies the issues of 'popup' and 'model detail changes' which are driving me mad as-is.

I'd tinker with those but the loading times of the tracks deters me - even on an SSD Monaco takes about 40-70 seconds to load - you get sick of that quite fast.