Worried about the future of rF2

[Richard Eriksson]

As the topic suggests...

As a long time ISI supporter and follower, i am now feeling a bit worried for the future.The number of new users coming in to rFactor2 seems to be dwindling.

Also there is a long time between the new official content. And even when there is official content released, it seems to fail to gather an interest (Civics in December) amongst the yet unitiated.

Also, the mod community seems a lot more reluctant than for rF1, with very few members adding content.This is even more worrying as it was the foundation of rF1 and a big selling point for bringing more people to the franchise (race anything you like).

ISI now also faces a stiff competition as the "sim" genre has become "hot" again with more titles in the works, that seem to gather a LOT more interest: AC, pCars etc.

The old veterans like myself are finding ourselves drawn to the likes of GSC, and newcomers are moving towards AC and probably DTM Experience.


I start this topic to see if someone shares my worries, and also to discuss if something can be done to once again bring more interest to rF2?


My personal idea is to go for Steam greenlighting (i actually REALLY like Steam as a platform), to gain exposure and also simplify the purchasing as well as updating.
Connecting it to Workshop makes modding interesting again, like what AC proposes.


I want rF2 to succeed, it is by far the most comprehensive take on simulating the actual race mechanics and based on that it should be the goto title for the serious sim-user, but right now i fear it is not.


Discussions on graphics i will however discard personally, as a) rF2 is pretty enough and b) the prettiest of settings in something like pCars is inaccesible to 95% of users.


So, what is your view of the status of the product?



Points of improvement needed going forward as identified in this thread so far:

* Better GUI (incoming)
* Steam integration and release
* Possible new distribution method that would automate updates and sync, if not steam
* New official content
* More transparent development
* Shorter build intervals
* More efficient code and optimization of codebase
* A possibility to "lock down" the core functionality, to deliver something considered stable and final
* New updater that allows automatic updating of content as well, including adding NEW
content

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

This will likely become an even bigger factor as more titles offer better graphics, sounds, UI and general game dynamics. Someone who might otherwise be attracted to rF2 physics may be quite put off after playing something that looks like Pcars. As much as I like rF2's driving dynamics, I have to admit that after playing AC for a time and now testing in Pcars almost daily, rF2's graphics leave me a little wanting. The bar continues to be raised as new titles evolve and become mature and polished.

Don't get me wrong, I will continue to play rF2 along with others but, there are times where I am willing to trade a bit of physics for some eye & ear candy. As it stands now, it all comes down to one's priorities but, that fact also serves to divide the community. It'd just be nice if we could get all of those things rolled up in one tidy package. Ah, the quest for the Holy Grail of Sim-Racing.

I personally don't notice graphics a lot, but what I noticed it, that there is a big diffrence between the tracks. The latest Nordschleife tourist looks really awesome and is visually on a very high level.

One funny qoute I saw on youtube in a Silverstone comparision video between AC and reallife was: "Real Silverstone looks so DirectX 9". I havent driven pCars yet, but on some of the videos the graphics looked a bit "gamey", which means nice to look at, but it wouldn't look like that in real life.

I think if rF2 would work on full details on a midrange PC a lot less people would moan about rF2 graphics. With things like Oculus Rift etc. coming, which need a lot more power to run optimization will be very important.

 

[Richard Eriksson]

I actually like the visuals in rF2. I find it to look really good, especially with the new HDR code implemented some time ago (major improvement).

To me AC and pCARS sometimes is less pleasing on the eyes when in motion due to all the excessive effects... In stills they look awesome, almost photoreal, but i want to race not take pictures.

More importantly - visuals should NEVER be a reason to sacrifice physics and dynamics. Not in this market segment. If you are looking for the best "simulation" for home use, those are the selling points, not the visuals.

I think the best balance available today is to be found in AC, that i percieve as the biggest competitor to rF2 at the moment. It looks VERY good and it is approaching rF2 levels in vehicle dynamics and surface modeling. pCARS looks even better, but sacrifices a lot of development effort to do so, rendering in less convincing "simulation"...

My gripe is NOT visuals. They are pretty enough in rF2 (in some cases better than AC even).
It's usability alone.

 

[RaceNut]

I personally don't notice graphics a lot, but what I noticed it, that there is a big diffrence between the tracks. The latest Nordschleife tourist looks really awesome and is visually on a very high level.

One funny qoute I saw on youtube in a Silverstone comparision video between AC and reallife was: "Real Silverstone looks so DirectX 9". I havent driven pCars yet, but on some of the videos the graphics looked a bit "gamey", which means nice to look at, but it wouldn't look like that in real life.

I think if rF2 would work on full details on a midrange PC a lot less people would moan about rF2 graphics. With things like Oculus Rift etc. coming, which need a lot more power to run optimization will be very important.

Obviously, the better the hardware - the better one can experience a titles true potential. Pcars looks stunning and lifelike if you have the hardware to run it at high settings. Videos don't do it enough justice IMO. Having said that, if you are "immersed" in the physics aspect of the racing, rF2's graphics probably won't be a major deterrent. rF2 has that affect; once in a race - even against AI, I forget about the graphics for a time. That is not enough to keep me from exploring other aspects of Racing-Sims hence, my library of titles is rather substantial. I like them all albeit, for slightly different reasons.

Playing games using an HMD will be interesting for sure but, the graphics are less of an issue with the limited resolution currently being available. Once the hardware catches up though, better graphics will play a greater role in realism and immersion. That's still years away but, I'll be getting my first taste of VR in the next few days.

 

[Gijs van Elderen]

New blood needed? ==> Yes
Only Veterans? I own rF2 for 6 month now. I'm already a Veteran.
Only closed off leagues? Click here

So to all new blood: Get your RD license Click here.
And after +/-2 month racing in the RD community you are a veteran.

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

Obviously, the better the hardware - the better one can experience a titles true potential. Pcars looks stunning and lifelike if you have the hardware to run it at high settings. Videos don't do it enough justice IMO. Having said that, if you are "immersed" in the physics aspect of the racing, rF2's graphics probably won't be a major deterrent. rF2 has that affect; once in a race - even against AI, I forget about the graphics for a time. That is not enough to keep me from exploring other aspects of Racing-Sims hence, my library of titles is rather substantial. I like them all albeit, for slightly different reasons.

Playing games using an HMD will be interesting for sure but, the graphics are less of an issue with the limited resolution currently being available. Once the hardware catches up though, better graphics will play a greater role in realism and immersion. That's still years away but, I'll be getting my first taste of VR in the next few days.

From what I have read so far VR has a big impact even with only 1080p the performance as the Rift uses 3D technology, which drops performance around 50% at the moment. With 75hz displays used that equals around stable 150FPS single screen full hd performance. Maybe that gets improved, if we should get 4K VR headsets we are really getting to a hardware limit

 

[RaceNut]

I actually like the visuals in rF2. I find it to look really good, especially with the new HDR code implemented some time ago (major improvement).

To me AC and pCARS sometimes is less pleasing on the eyes when in motion due to all the excessive effects... In stills they look awesome, almost photoreal, but i want to race not take pictures.

More importantly - visuals should NEVER be a reason to sacrifice physics and dynamics. Not in this market segment. If you are looking for the best "simulation" for home use, those are the selling points, not the visuals.

I think the best balance available today is to be found in AC, that i percieve as the biggest competitor to rF2 at the moment. It looks VERY good and it is approaching rF2 levels in vehicle dynamics and surface modeling. pCARS looks even better, but sacrifices a lot of development effort to do so, rendering in less convincing "simulation"...

My gripe is NOT visuals. They are pretty enough in rF2 (in some cases better than AC even).
It's usability alone.

I can't argue with your points - they are valid ones. I think those concerning graphics are mostly subjective ones; it depends on one's taste. I suspect it also depends on what one is used to and exposed to.

I too, feel that AC is probably the closest title to bridging the gap between dynamic driving physics and graphics as well as other new features. I understand that it is also going to be getting some updates in the physics department with input from professional drivers in the future. Add to that the modding capabilities, sound engine updates, and AC will make for an attractive platform.

 

[RaceNut]

From what I have read so far VR has a big impact even with only 1080p the performance as the Rift uses 3D technology, which drops performance around 50% at the moment. With 75hz displays used that equals around stable 150FPS single screen full hd performance. Maybe that gets improved, if we should get 4K VR headsets we are really getting to a hardware limit

Yes, the hardware requirements are going to be huge unless there is some major new development in GPU tech that can reduce the requirements to run VR in HD. It's early days for VR but, exciting stuff IMO. The potential benefits for a cockpit-based game experience are amazing.

 

[JeffL]

It's funny to hear different opinions on the video, being in video production for years you realize it's all about perception. Some people see the world like the Wizard of Oz, all brightly colored and vibrant then others see it as dark and grainy like Minority report . I think RF2 and AC are both very good in the graphics, just different emotions. Different moods make me want different experiences. Crazy man.

 

[RaceNut]

BTW, I turn down color-saturation in AC to about 80-85%. I really dislike the over-saturated colors of most past games. The colors are boosted beyond natural by the back-lighting and should only be used to represent light reflections and the like IMO. Of course, that is one part artistic-styling and one part game-lighting capabilities, the former being subjective.

 

[JeffL]

Yes , personally, I think rf2 is very realistic. I think it is not over saturated and the codec they use really crunches the blacks just right. I don't know if it was their intent but RF2 has a film quality that is hard to recreate. The digital video world is just barely getting their with the new cameras but somehow rf2 has crunched the shadows really good. In the video we say the drama is not in the light but in the shadows.

 

[Jyri Kettunen]

Vintage cars could be the game's forte, but unfortunately they are ruined by tank slapper physics, where even the most stable cars historically (T70) lack proper directional stability.

 

[jimortality]

Well I've just started with RF2 and I need to do hundreds of laps before I will start online plus I notice in the club sign up that some of the tc and stuff are not allowed so maybe that will put off new racers. Just an observation

 

[Gijs van Elderen]

Well I've just started with RF2 and I need to do hundreds of laps before I will start online plus I notice in the club sign up that some of the tc and stuff are not allowed so maybe that will put off new racers. Just an observation

Most rF2 club races are with TC and ABS. TC and ABS is always allowed at club races with single seaters and GT-cars.

But I think you are referring to the Ferrari challenge at Spa: Click here ,I will look at it again.

About the hundreds off laps: To be fast and finding your limits without spinning, needs some practice. You can do it on your own or online with friends. IMO: the last option is the most fun and you could share some info, tips, setups and experience.

 

[Ben Eastman]

Most rF2 club races are with TC and ABS. TC and ABS is always allowed at club races with single seaters and GT-cars.

But I think you are referring to the Ferrari challenge at Spa: Click here ,I will look at it again.

About the hundreds off laps: To be fast and finding your limits without spinning, needs some practice. You can do it on your own or online with friends. IMO: the last option is the most fun and you could share some info, tips, setups and experience.

I do think rf2 online is poo, unless you organiE on RD or in a league, it's not like you can just join a server and race against people...then we wonder why people end up crashing all the time. Community of hotlappers

 

[David O'Reilly]

Well I've just started with RF2 and I need to do hundreds of laps before I will start online plus I notice in the club sign up that some of the tc and stuff are not allowed so maybe that will put off new racers. Just an observation

Jim,
Once you can lap safely and consistently get online buddy.
One night with other guys will find you what a week will find you on your own.
So often I do some single player testing and figure "I have this nailed, this is a podium" I get online and am +4 sec. 2 hrs later I am +1.5 sec.
You can pick an alien and ride on board, get setups, get inspiration etc.

It happened to me tonight at COTAs. I didn't think I was fast there yet but got online and was +2sec for Sector 1 alone. 1hr later I had bettered that particular lap from that driver.
You will find things faster.
BUT you need top have reasonable expectations so you don't get disheartened. Some pl are fast, but all are welcome.

 

[John Peat]

Hey all - came here specifically to find out more about rF2 because so many people praise the driving experience - but bemoan it's poor take-up online and graphics issues.

I don't really care if a game isn't absolutely mind-blowing visually, but looking at videos there seem to be issues with rF2 which would drive me mad

I'm talking about things like really obvious model scaling on the cars ahead of you, pop-in textures/models, lighting issues which cause textures to flicker or flash and even missing textures - all of those things are distracting and annoying.

Moreover - some of those issues seem to have been around a long time - videos from last year upto just a few months ago seem to show at least some of the same issues??

That - to me - is a deal breaker - but that said, I guess I have their 7-day money-back thing to find out for myself?

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

Hey all - came here specifically to find out more about rF2 because so many people praise the driving experience - but bemoan it's poor take-up online and graphics issues.

I don't really care if a game isn't absolutely mind-blowing visually, but looking at videos there seem to be issues with rF2 which would drive me mad

I'm talking about things like really obvious model scaling on the cars ahead of you, pop-in textures/models, lighting issues which cause textures to flicker or flash and even missing textures - all of those things are distracting and annoying.

Moreover - some of those issues seem to have been around a long time - videos from last year upto just a few months ago seem to show at least some of the same issues??

That - to me - is a deal breaker - but that said, I guess I have their 7-day money-back thing to find out for myself?

They have a demo. Do you have an example video or photo? Often you get a bit of graphical issues in the replay, so videos can differ from reality.
I would recommend you to try the demo. I so far very rarely see graphic bugs and when I do it is due to a mod not properly made.

 

[jimortality]

New update today version 860

 

[John Peat]

They have a demo. Do you have an example video or photo? Often you get a bit of graphical issues in the replay, so videos can differ from reality.
I would recommend you to try the demo. I so far very rarely see graphic bugs and when I do it is due to a mod not properly made.

The reply point is something I'd not considered - and yes, I've tried the (Civic) demo and it runs pretty well

I guess the next step is just ponying-up the money and if it's bad, there's the refund option!

I'm expecting rFactor content to have issues tbh - if the rF2 content is solid, that's enough for me to be going-on with...

Thanks!!

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

The reply point is something I'd not considered - and yes, I've tried the (Civic) demo and it runs pretty well

I guess the next step is just ponying-up the money and if it's bad, there's the refund option!

I'm expecting rFactor content to have issues tbh - if the rF2 content is solid, that's enough for me to be going-on with...

Thanks!!

There is no thing like rFactor content. There are mods converted from rF1 to rF2, but you can't just start up an rF1 Mod in rF2.
Drivingwise it is really good and as long as I don't put shadows on ultra (known bug) everything looks fine or I don't notice any issue while being busy driving on the limit