What i think is not right with RRes physics?!

[Msportdan]

FINAL UPDATE!
hhhhmmmmmmm so i gave the DTMs on RF2 a try last night and just fell for them, so nice to drive feels natural nice FFB and weight in wheel.

Go ahead and i put RRe and it just feels wrong, (even with my new settings) the middle of the wheel feel loose/light and has no ffb. Its horrid.. Unless you have the wheel turned its just poor. Only way i can really cure this is turn up steering force, then i start getting the "auto" bloody straighten wheel assist or whatever it is. (possibly too much forcing the other way)

I have come to the conclusion (as apart from buying a new wheel) that this is a great game etc, but when played with another sim with better physics, you can notice it so much more. Its to a point its off putting.

Maybe a possibility of a minumum force setting? Well since not one dev has commented on it it must just be me, or im being ignored, it doesnt really matter as so many people think the FFB are bang on "ppffft" lol.

So for me there is STILL something that isnt quite right about RRe physics etc.... and until S3 fix this (floaty around the centre feel) ill stand by my OP, because ive given up searching for the "sweet spot"!
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ORIGINAL POST
I tried something on the way home in my car (f20 125i msport bmw rwd). Ive never really would say I practice sim driving on the road. I tried swerving left and right really quickly. Which is something ive been comparing in the sims im playing. I know this sounds silly, but I remember someone saying how good a set of physics are by, aggressively going left and right and see if the tyres slip (bite and slip ) as you get faster and more intense.

To my surprise (okay I wasn't do track speeds but its all relative) my cars was quite sharp on its front end, they front tyres felt connected to the road and there wasn't much roll in the car. (probs due to the msport suspension) only as I got faster did the tyres start to slip, but that is also 220bhp through the rear.

Anyway I got in and tried the Wttc bmw, which is a tad similar okay no where near but you know what I mean. To my dismay the race spec car felt horrid, it felt squishy on it front suspension felt quite numb up front, and felt like this was the road car.!! When you do the motion I was doing In my car you get a sort of a sway going, like a pendulum effect. THIS IS WHATS KILLING RRE FOR ME. many a times ive popped out of a slipstream and ive had this awrkward sway feeling. Sorry it feels wrong, You don't feel like your connected to the road the suspension doesn't feel responsive and confidence isn't gained this way.

So I tried another sim that im getting back into at the mo (excusing its dire AI) and that's AC. I popped into the BMW m3 (another similar car) and tried the old swerve down the Monza straight ... and there it was that felt like my car.. and it did. it felt responsive tyres dug and bit like a tyre under load, I could feel the suspension doing its work....and I wont lie it felt like I was driving my car, just a bit more of an expensive version lol.

obviously in both sims and in real life if I kept the throttle and swerving up I would end up in heading the other way. But in RRE its that transition between getting into the slide, and the feeling of that bite. The feeling of the front end on cars and suspension, just isn't felt imo in RRe. Okay setups could help, but it feels to far deep to fix purely by setups.

Look im not here to bash, its purely critism, that I think S3, if they wanted to could sort out and make this shine. You guys know im a backer of RRe..

 

[Le_Poilu]

AFAIK (and for what I've personnaly tested) : FFB inverted setting is not something you'll have doubt about it.

It's either good or bad depending of your wheel models, but it's not something to argue against or for.
There's no way you can't feel the difference between the two, and no way you couldn't be able to tell what suits better for your wheel model. When this settings is "wrong", you absolutely should be able to tell it is, in comparison of the opposite.

 

[Msportdan]

well i think my inverted option is broke then because without centring on i cant feel no difference

lets just leave this thread yeah now, ive given solutions for people woth DFGT who like me dont feel like its that great default.

To conclude i think steering force is a bit to "sway-ey" on the DFGT for my likeing, and needs turning off entirely. Compensate with Centre force in profiler, rest is personal preference.

 

[Connor Caple]

To the best of my knowledge, all Logitech FFB wheels need to have the FFB Inverted box checked in any race sim that has that option.

It's just the way they work.

All race sims also advise that Centre Spring is set to ZERO and the box is unchecked in the Logitech Profiler.

I have no idea what is wrong with your setup, but it seems seriously fubar.

 

[Msportdan]

why even have a inverted option , i dont really get it. I didnt feel any difference in the force changing direction with switing this option. Maybe the DFGT just cancels it out i dunno.

It has made me think into getting a new wheel though.

 

[Connor Caple]

Logitech Wheels work 'Inverted', some other manufacturers' wheels do not. I'm not sure if it's Fanatec or Thrustmaster, but one of them works 'Non-Inverted' which is why the check box is there.

 

[Msportdan]

ah ok thanks for clarifying

 

[nikh]

Again, I have no idea what I`m talking about , but...
If you set your DFGT to `Inverse Off` and your Games Profilers settings to "centering off", then attempt to drive in a straight line and let go of the wheel, the car will pull sharply to the left or right. This is exactly the opposite of what should happen.
Logitech wheels only work properly with Inverse FFB. I can`t drive 50 metres with inverse set to off, as it feels just plain wrong.
I believe you`re countering this drag effect by setting the centering to 120% or whatever, so you get a positive centering effect.
Try driving with both Inverse and centering off, it`s horrible.

 

[Heppsan]

why even have a inverted option , i dont really get it. I didnt feel any difference in the force changing direction with switing this option. Maybe the DFGT just cancels it out i dunno.

It has made me think into getting a new wheel though.

I had this option unchecked by default in GSC I think, and you really can't miss the difference.
The feedback gets reverted.
When the wheel should pull left it pulls right etc.. (at least mine did.)

 

[James Cook]

Inverted FFB is the one setting you will know is wrong as soon as you leave the pit lane. There's no 'grey area' with this setting.

By the way Fanatec wheels need to run inverted FFB.

 

[Msportdan]

reverted all my settings ...

obviously was wrong about all this..
just kept the steer force below the lat and ver forces seemed to help.

 

[Msportdan]

yes i know andi

"thank god" i bet your thinking lol

Maybe a huge part of the placebo affect and frustration setting in on that and too many late nights with that FFb menu.

Anyway, if i go over 100% on either of those 3 settings above i get the snap oscillation bad. So lowering all 3 helped thus but didn't cure entirely. (but easier to live with).

i think i settled, for 80-90 lat ver and 60 steer force cant remember now,

and steer rack 10%, this higher does numb the road feeling imo.

 

[Msportdan]

See below

 

[JayJayRaceinho]

y, can't complain with ffb with their latest tech aswell. some cars could have more details, but maybe it's caused to the old physics of the older cars....and/or maybe it's trackwise, e.g. zolder you feel everything on the wheel, seems a bumpy track.

But damagemodel of AC is really good (compared to r3e) makes racing much more interesting fun and realstic because u have to watch your drivingstyle and awareness much more.

 

[Msportdan]

hhhhmmmmmmm so i gave the DTMs on RF2 a try last night and just fell for them, so nice to drive feels natural nice FFB and weight in wheel.

Go ahead and i put RRe and it just feels wrong, (even with my new settings) the middle of the wheel feel loose/light and has no ffb. Its horrid.. Unless you have the wheel turned its just poor. Only way i can really cure this is turn up steering force, then i start getting the "auto" bloody straighten wheel assist or whatever it is. (possibly too much forcing the other way)

I have come to the conclusion (as apart from buying a new wheel) that this is a great game etc, but when played with another sim with better physics, you can notice it so much more. Its to a point its off putting.

Maybe a possibility of a minumum force setting? Well since not one dev has commented on it it must just be me, or im being ignored, it doesnt really matter as so many people think the FFB are bang on "ppffft" lol.

So for me there is STILL something that isnt quite right about RRe physics etc.... and until S3 fix this (floaty around the centre feel) ill stand by my OP, because ive given up searching for the "sweet spot"!

 

[Le_Poilu]

You are still bashing the physics of the game when your issue is only about FFB.

FFB and Physics are not the sames.
FFB depends on physics, but FFB is so subjective and wheel dependant that you can have the better physics engine with the worst FFB effects.

You're talking about physics and compare it to rFactor, just now one thing: R3E use the same physic engine than rfactor and GCSe: The ISImotor2.

So to be clear: you don't like the FFB of R3E, for whatever reason (your wheel, what you expect, what you like, etc ). We have all well understand that. But please stop tlaking about the physics of the game when it's obvious that your issue as nothing to do with physics !

 

[Msportdan]

to me they are the same, one affects the other.... and rre still feels its turning on a centre pivot!
either way they have messed one of them up...and my wheel feels fine in all sims but this, so what does that tell you?

 

[Le_Poilu]

to me they are the same, one affects the other....

Physics is the way cars react
FFB is the way the game use to give you feedback on the way the car react.
Yes, FFB depends on physics, but a wrong FFB is not wrong physics.

and rre still feels its turning on a centre pivot!

Sorry, but the time I feel this is on non updated content in the game (all content prior to ADAC 2013). Otherwise it's not the case.

either way they have messed one of them up...and my wheel feels fine in all sims but this, so what does that tell you?

You're the only one who have such issue with your wheel and with this game.. so what does tell you ?

 

[Msportdan]

i am not the only one vo read above.......

i still feel this centre pivot thing on the new cars.. not as much but still there slightly.

jus think there is a lot of rose tinted glassed on around, here. Which is okay as s3 deserve some respect with what they have achieved, BUT the handling isnt up to gsce or rf2. or even AC (even going against what i said above)(

 

[Msportdan]

Very intersting thread that got me thinking about my G27 settings...
Profiler: 107/100/100
and ingame:

With GT cars I sometimes get this "floaty" feel aswell. It feels like the front end has very little grip and therefore the cars understeers at low speeds and I get a slightly drifty feel in highspeed corners.
I tried the 200% vertical load and 200% lateral force which seems to have helped Dan and the cars definitely seems more "planted", but I feel like the wheel wants to center itself all time and I kind of have to fight it.
Any G27 users with some suggestions?

THIS>>>>
but I feel like the wheel wants to center itself all time and I kind of have to fight it.

 

[Le_Poilu]

THIS>>>>
but I feel like the wheel wants to center itself all time and I kind of have to fight it.

And what ?

Are you aware that's a normal behavior for all running car in real life ?
Have you even drive a real car once in your life ? The wheel will always try to center by itself as soon as the car run.