What i think is not right with RRes physics?!

[Msportdan]

FINAL UPDATE!
hhhhmmmmmmm so i gave the DTMs on RF2 a try last night and just fell for them, so nice to drive feels natural nice FFB and weight in wheel.

Go ahead and i put RRe and it just feels wrong, (even with my new settings) the middle of the wheel feel loose/light and has no ffb. Its horrid.. Unless you have the wheel turned its just poor. Only way i can really cure this is turn up steering force, then i start getting the "auto" bloody straighten wheel assist or whatever it is. (possibly too much forcing the other way)

I have come to the conclusion (as apart from buying a new wheel) that this is a great game etc, but when played with another sim with better physics, you can notice it so much more. Its to a point its off putting.

Maybe a possibility of a minumum force setting? Well since not one dev has commented on it it must just be me, or im being ignored, it doesnt really matter as so many people think the FFB are bang on "ppffft" lol.

So for me there is STILL something that isnt quite right about RRe physics etc.... and until S3 fix this (floaty around the centre feel) ill stand by my OP, because ive given up searching for the "sweet spot"!
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ORIGINAL POST
I tried something on the way home in my car (f20 125i msport bmw rwd). Ive never really would say I practice sim driving on the road. I tried swerving left and right really quickly. Which is something ive been comparing in the sims im playing. I know this sounds silly, but I remember someone saying how good a set of physics are by, aggressively going left and right and see if the tyres slip (bite and slip ) as you get faster and more intense.

To my surprise (okay I wasn't do track speeds but its all relative) my cars was quite sharp on its front end, they front tyres felt connected to the road and there wasn't much roll in the car. (probs due to the msport suspension) only as I got faster did the tyres start to slip, but that is also 220bhp through the rear.

Anyway I got in and tried the Wttc bmw, which is a tad similar okay no where near but you know what I mean. To my dismay the race spec car felt horrid, it felt squishy on it front suspension felt quite numb up front, and felt like this was the road car.!! When you do the motion I was doing In my car you get a sort of a sway going, like a pendulum effect. THIS IS WHATS KILLING RRE FOR ME. many a times ive popped out of a slipstream and ive had this awrkward sway feeling. Sorry it feels wrong, You don't feel like your connected to the road the suspension doesn't feel responsive and confidence isn't gained this way.

So I tried another sim that im getting back into at the mo (excusing its dire AI) and that's AC. I popped into the BMW m3 (another similar car) and tried the old swerve down the Monza straight ... and there it was that felt like my car.. and it did. it felt responsive tyres dug and bit like a tyre under load, I could feel the suspension doing its work....and I wont lie it felt like I was driving my car, just a bit more of an expensive version lol.

obviously in both sims and in real life if I kept the throttle and swerving up I would end up in heading the other way. But in RRE its that transition between getting into the slide, and the feeling of that bite. The feeling of the front end on cars and suspension, just isn't felt imo in RRe. Okay setups could help, but it feels to far deep to fix purely by setups.

Look im not here to bash, its purely critism, that I think S3, if they wanted to could sort out and make this shine. You guys know im a backer of RRe..

 

[Msportdan]

driving for over 18 years had 17 cars from 17, and done plenty of track days karting etc..

and ive never had a car want to snap back like they do in this. yes with tyre traction of course physics will try to pull wheel back, but in rre its too over powering and always causes a sway, as you have to then recorrect the sway...which ive seen - ive done videos - i saw it on the mclaren teaser video.. which in turn makes corner exiting a mess of recorrecting and swaying like a boat.

have you driven a real car, if so you wouldnt be arguing this!!!

 

[Le_Poilu]

ok

I'm out here.
Nothing more to say.
Tried to help, tried to understand ...
Don't play R3E and keep enjoy GSCe/rF/AC ... nobody here forces you.

Bye

 

[Msportdan]

happy xmas

 

[Brandon Wright]

hhhhmmmmmmm so i gave the DTMs on RF2 a try last night and just fell for them, so nice to drive feels natural nice FFB and weight in wheel.

Go ahead and i put RRe and it just feels wrong, (even with my new settings) the middle of the wheel feel loose/light and has no ffb. Its horrid.. Unless you have the wheel turned its just poor. Only way i can really cure this is turn up steering force, then i start getting the "auto" bloody straighten wheel assist or whatever it is. (possibly too much forcing the other way)

I have come to the conclusion (as apart from buying a new wheel) that this is a great game etc, but when played with another sim with better physics, you can notice it so much more. Its to a point its off putting.

Maybe a possibility of a minumum force setting? Well since not one dev has commented on it it must just be me, or im being ignored, it doesnt really matter as so many people think the FFB are bang on "ppffft" lol.

So for me there is STILL something that isnt quite right about RRe physics etc.... and until S3 fix this (floaty around the centre feel) ill stand by my OP, because ive given up searching for the "sweet spot"!

Mine is the opposite. It's very tight in the center but when I go into a corner and turn the wheel (which is the time you'd expect the wheel to tighten up) then it starts to get light and the more I turn it the lighter it gets. Some cars are worse than others but every car has this feeling to some extent, most of them I can live with. I tinkered around with the settings again last night and nothing really made any difference. I'll admit, it bothers me, but not enough to keep me from playing.

Everything else about the FFB I really like, but that one issue does detract from the overall experience. The graphics, sounds, and AI are so good that it makes up for that one issue (mostly), for me anyway. There is an issue, for sure, but so far it's not enough to keep me from enjoying the heck out of the game. I have Assetto Corsa and think the FFB in that game is pretty bad, but I still play it occasionally. I also think iRacing's FFB is rather terrible and I've pretty much given up on that one. I've tried the GSCE demo and it's FFB feels great to me, I just haven't bought the full version yet. None of these games are perfect, but so far R3E puts the biggest on my face despite the issue with the FFB.

 

[Msportdan]

you havent got inverted off have you?

@My issue is the force that you get for returning the wheel. I tried it in my car at lunch turning then letting the wheel go causes the wheel to centre in the direction you were turning to, not the direction i was coming from. For example i turned in into morrisons car park, i let go (loosened grip so to speak, so not being dangerous) of wheel and it recentered itself towards the car park and not down the road .

Its as if the game has a auto centre down track assist on.

Maybe i should enable centering again.

Anyway ive had enough of explaining this lol.. I personally think its not right. maybe its my wheel maybe not. If i fix it by lessening the FFb it goes to light around the middle, giving absolutly no feel whatsoever driving. so im stuck..

Anyway happy xmas everyone,, all keep safe
(no taking your hands off the wheel while driving !! lol)
dan

 

[James Cook]

@Msportdan

I'm having the exact same issues as you but with a Fanatec wheel - loose centre feel and excessive centring force (snap back as you call it). Cars feel very vague in a straight line. Check my recent posts in the wheel thread.

I'm unsatisfied with FFB as it stands.

 

[Msportdan]

lol so i feel like im the only one having this yet dozens of people feel the same in that thread lol

Ill stand by my opinion

SOMETHINGS NOT RIGHT WITH THE PHYSICS IN RRE!!

 

[Brandon Wright]

No, inverted is on. (GT3 RS V2, btw) If I turn it off I literally can't control the car, huge inputs result in very little movement and turning left makes it go right. I don't really get that returning force either, when the wheel is centered it's resistant to change but once I get it turned then it gets weaker and doesn't spring back to center too strongly. I also found that the center-pivot or pendulum feel went away when I got my FOV/POV correct.

I don't think the FFB is right either(the physics are good though), but like I said I don't think AC's or iRacing's is either and in my opinion (which only applies to me) both of them are far worse than R3E. I've never tried RF2 but based of my experience with the GSCE demo I'd guess it has very nice FFB. I desperately want the FFB in R3E to be better, but I've adapted to it and overall find it to be quite enjoyable. None of the other games make me feel like I'm actually in a giant, moving hunk of steel (or carbon fiber) as much as R3E does, even if it's not 100% perfect to the real world.

And just to be clear, I'm certainly not trying to argue or say that I'm right and your wrong. It's all a matter of opinion and experience and I'm just relating mine to add to the dialogue, intended to be in a friendly/constructive manner. Like I said, I think R3E's FFB has an issue and at first it really turned me off to the game, but somehow it keeps drawing me back in and your thread here has helped me come to grips with it, so cheers for that. If the FFB is bad enough for you to keep you from enjoying the game, that's a shame, but I'm just trying to add an alternate opinion for other people who are going through the same journey I've been experiencing. And the end result of my journey is that while R3E isn't perfect and requires some tinkering of settings to get it acceptable, it does produce a whole lot more smiles on my face than AC or iRacing does and everyday I'm excited to get home and have another race with it.

Happy Xmas, and enjoy your racing (wherever it may be).

 

[Msportdan]

i agree brandon mate, for me the centring issue is my only major gripe and my others are all minor, if they can fix this issue (be it wheel or game) i would not complain about this title ...as i said it has it all almost.

 

[James Cook]

Yep, it's the return to centre force that's the major issue.

 

[Msportdan]

heres a vid from earlier.

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=do8bqf&s=8#.VJlxOCCtU

this is me purely turning to the outside of track and letting tight grip of the wheel..

 

[Msportdan]

NOW LETS SEE IF S3 WILL ADDRESS THIS..

 

[Brandon Wright]

I think my wheel does that too, I guess that doesn't bother me. But I've just come from 5 years of console racing so I'm not very educated on what "proper FFB" should be.

My issue is with how light the wheel gets when I'm turning it, because that's when I'd expect it to stiffen up and it makes it feel......well, like a hovercraft. Some cars don't have that feeling at all though, so I just spend most of my time with them. Sadly, the DTM 2014 cars do have this "light when turning" feeling and they're the ones I've spent the most money on. It's not as severe in them though, so I still enjoy them. But I would enjoy them a whole lot more if they didn't have that feeling.

And I certainly agree, it has it all.......almost. Right now, for me, that's good enough, but I can understand why it would put others off.

 

[Msportdan]

DTM14 is the cars im noticing this on more, but the centring issue for me is apparent across all car. Strange my wheel (as long as i have adequate steering force) feel ok when im turning it a hairpin would give me good force as i turn the wheel.?! hhhmmm However straightening the car back up is the fight for me. ive only done 2 years pc racing myself, and dont know much about ffb, but i know when a steering wheel should and shouldnt react, anyone who drives can see this really

ANYONE at sector 3, is there a code or line in the ini files that could help lessen the force when centring BUT keep normal steering force moderate.?

 

[Brandon Wright]

If I could get more force in the turns I'd be very happy. May I ask what you find to be adequate steering force? I think mine is around 130-150. The only thing I found made much of a difference in this area is the Understeer setting, putting it low (around 20) gets a little more weight in the wheel when turning but it's still not as much as I'd like (not even close really). I tried some pretty extreme changes last night with all the settings and none of them seemed to make a whole lot of difference.

I guess I've just kind of come to terms with it's deficiencies and I find that after 15 minutes of driving I've kind of adapted or tuned it out and end up just having a lot of fun. It certainly needs work and I wish we could get more input on how to address it, or if it can even be addressed. There are so many other things that are right that it mostly makes up for the FFB issue. But, I'm quite sure once I get GSCE it will be difficult for me to come back to R3E (and that's mainly why I haven't bought GSCE yet). But for me, the fact that R3E already has a lot of the cars and tracks I want right out of the box is a really strong point. GSCE's stock content doesn't appeal to me as much, I'd have to find/install a lot of mods to get it to be the game I'd want it to be and that puts me off a bit.

ANYONE at S3 (or RD), is there a setting in the .ini or elsewhere that will prevent my wheel from getting light/weak in the turns?

 

[Msportdan]

wow i cant have that high a force otherwise it wants to break my wrists when i corrent my inputs. ive been experimenting with steer/lat/vet forces at 85. This somehow fixes my cetring overpowering issue, but as i mentioned now i have no feel in the centre. So im sorta stuck.

If a real Gt car has this sorta of steering feel i cant imagine anyone wanting to drive these things. Hell even if my BMW had this i would take it back its dangerous lol

GSCE is very good i have it, i still think some of the greatest physics and ffb out there. GFx not as good as RRE or sounds.. and yes content is a little unvaried.

I can definitly recommend 3 mods.. the retro porshe will blow you away...

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/porsche-911-rsr-997-gt3-cup.4394/

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/porsche-911-cup-rsr-3-0l.3531/ (a fav!)

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ferrari-f430-gtc-cup.4397/

these are amzing, and the best on GSC btw

Play gsc and then you will look at rre physics in a new (not so good) light

My reasons that i dont really play much , is that its on an old engine, and a lot of AI problems etc, i seen in race 07, and i spent years messing with that game ands it AI.

Thats why im eager to get RRe handling perfected, i do think this game has
potential, massive potential in fact...

 

[James Cook]

Is there anything in the .ini that deals with the centring force? I kind of feel a slider for this would solve so many problems. The whole reason the car sways is because of the snap back.

 

[Msportdan]

bloody exactomondo james.. Ive looked, i cant make out these codes really..

One way i sorta fixed:-

Put your forces down to 85% (steering force/lateral/vertical), then have a 10-20 % centre force in logitche profiler, thats somehow counter balances the over sway. But i felt that the centre value was killing some nice effects you get on straights and mid corners.. Because now you have the centre value fighting against steering force in your wheel like one big FFB orgy!! lol

 

[Msportdan]

If I could get more force in the turns I'd be very happy. May I ask what you find to be adequate steering force? I think mine is around 130-150. The only thing I found made much of a difference in this area is the Understeer setting, putting it low (around 20) gets a little more weight in the wheel when turning but it's still not as much as I'd like (not even close really). I tried some pretty extreme changes last night with all the settings and none of them seemed to make a whole lot of difference.

I guess I've just kind of come to terms with it's deficiencies and I find that after 15 minutes of driving I've kind of adapted or tuned it out and end up just having a lot of fun. It certainly needs work and I wish we could get more input on how to address it, or if it can even be addressed. There are so many other things that are right that it mostly makes up for the FFB issue. But, I'm quite sure once I get GSCE it will be difficult for me to come back to R3E (and that's mainly why I haven't bought GSCE yet). But for me, the fact that R3E already has a lot of the cars and tracks I want right out of the box is a really strong point. GSCE's stock content doesn't appeal to me as much, I'd have to find/install a lot of mods to get it to be the game I'd want it to be and that puts me off a bit.

ANYONE at S3 (or RD), is there a setting in the .ini or elsewhere that will prevent my wheel from getting light/weak in the turns?

Have you tried adding a center value maybe 20-30% in profiler?

 

[Brandon Wright]

wow i cant have that high a force otherwise it wants to break my wrists when i corrent my inputs. ive been experimenting with steer/lat/vet forces at 85. This somehow fixes my cetring overpowering issue, but as i mentioned now i have no feel in the centre. So im sorta stuck.

If a real Gt car has this sorta of steering feel i cant imagine anyone wanting to drive these things. Hell even if my BMW had this i would take it back its dangerous lol

GSCE is very good i have it, i still think some of the greatest physics and ffb out there. GFx not as good as RRE or sounds.. and yes content is a little unvaried.

I can definitly recommend 3 mods.. the retro porshe will blow you away...

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/porsche-911-rsr-997-gt3-cup.4394/

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/porsche-911-cup-rsr-3-0l.3531/ (a fav!)

http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ferrari-f430-gtc-cup.4397/

these are amzing, and the best on GSC btw

Play gsc and then you will look at rre physics in a new (not so good) light

My reasons that i dont really play much , is that its on an old engine, and a lot of AI problems etc, i seen in race 07, and i spent years messing with that game ands it AI.

Thats why im eager to get RRe handling perfected, i do think this game has
potential, massive potential in fact...

I may have said that wrong, my steering force is at 70 buy my steering effects (or whatever it's called) is around 130. If I set it much higher than that then the wheel is very resistant to turning from center, but once I get it turned it starts getting weaker and that's what I dislike. My lat/vet forces are high, both in the hundreds, but I'm not real sure what they do and I don't feel any major differences when I adjust them one way or the other. Same with the steering rack, I feel very little difference between 0 and 100, but generally keep it around zero.

I tried the GSCE demo and loved the FFB but I knew once I bought it I probably would neglect the content I purchased in R3E so I've held off for now and I'm just trying to get some enjoyment out of what I have. I too think R3E has massive potential and I seem very determined to get the FFB feeling better so it's potential can shine through.