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Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by Mr Latte, Jun 29, 2017.

  1. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    If your happy with the 4x Mini LFE and want to have full CM then you could keep them and get the LFE / TST units with an additional amp. Buy them all together or gradual upgrade to such.


    Below is example given with stereo only in pedals:

    Simvibe
    Chassis Mode
    Soundcard (Green Socket)
    Set to Stereo 2 Channels = Pedals

    *(possible future upgrade to quadraphonic using rear channels)


    Extension Mode
    Secondary Soundcard (Green Socket)
    Seat = LFE
    Seat Back = Shifter

    Create layers and alter controls per "output channel" (Chassis/Seat/Shifter) for the device being used regards the tones and settings you should apply.



    Sim Shaker Wheels (SSW)
    1 Soundcard only needed (Asus DGX) recommended

    Configure Audacity (audio tool for creating effect wav files) using effects only in the first 4 channels

    Front Left & Front Right = Pedals (Mini LFE or ADX)
    Center = (Seat TST)
    Sub = (Seat LFE)

    This is not hard to do but like Simvibe requires some learning in how to use the software and playing around with different tones used for the effects. Unlike Simvibe you simply place the waveform your using in only the channels you want that effect to happen. Then you can adjust the amplitude (strength) of the waveform and save them as (in this case a 4 channel file).

    Once you spend time with a few simple tutorials and look at how the default settings are used.
    It is not that hard to learn how to use Audacity. I have learned a lot by trial and error (yes over many hours) and improved how effects feel greatly.



    SSW Community Possibilities:
    Some of us are working on high-quality wav files and create a series of effect files ready to go pre-configured for 1-6 channel users. This is nothing official or linked to @andre but is community-based to help users get the most out of SSW and give easy access to quality experience from it.

    We also apply a unique profile for the amplifiers (iNuke DSP Series) that outputs the frequencies to suit the tactile hardware being used. These are not needed but having control of tuning to match the characteristics and abilities of the tactile used is desirable and beneficial. So far good results seem to be happening but more specific fine-tuning is possible.

    Currently, I am testing with others on the following tactile hardware.

    ADX
    TST 239 / TST 329 / TST 429
    Buttkicker Advance
    Buttkicker BK-LFE

    It would be good to find someone willing to offer feedback and do tests that owns
    Buttkicker Mini LFE with iNuke DSP amps. As these are popular but we want to get the most out of them and avoid the piston pang issue. The solution is not with (acoustic foam sales gimmick) used in the Mini lfe SE but controlling what causes it to happen via the iNuke DSP
    .



    Goals?
    What is possible is making available to the community profiles they just load that offer very good performance on the hardware they own.

    These include:
    • Tuned iNuke profiles to match the tactile hardware
    • Tuned EQ profiles to match individual cars for "audio tactile" (if being added)
    • High-quality waveforms created for each effect in SSW for 1-6 channel configurations

    Still some ways to go and its not been decided yet if such is kept more private or shared in the community.


    Dreaming?
    I do have some interest in possibly for the future, building/designing 8020 cockpit components that are developed and tested to give the best installation and isolation. I see so many guys building brilliant wheel rims etc and think hey nobody's building seat/pedal sections specifically made/tested for tactile installation to easily install onto their 8020 rigs. Certainly, none of the companies selling such rigs offer high-end tactile solutions that are buy and bolt on.
     
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  2. TrailSlide

    TrailSlide

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    MrLatte, please consider putting together a hardware/software package that we can purchase from you that's ready to go =) Since you can control which hardware/software you use, you can make a profile that works very well.
    I"m sure there are many interest for a easy tactile feedback solution with professional result.
    Judging from the FXX profile, you are the man to do it !!
     
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  3. signman

    signman
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    He certainly is :cool:

    The tactile could come WITH a rig too.
    Is there enough demand though ?

    If any doubter's I wish they could jump in my rig for 5 minutes ...soon change their mind.
    It's as massive as VR for me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
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  4. Magiashkii

    Magiashkii

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    Mr. Latte is the tactile master. I totally agree that tactile is an under rated add-on to a rig since most just slap on bass shakers like a buttkicker and end up with underwhelming performance. After having on a rig and it is a "must have" piece of equipment on a rig. Once you have it set up correctly you wonder how did you ever drive without it. It's a very similar "wow this is what I was missing" hardware like VR or a wheel base like OSW. think the only issue would be that creating a standardized system would be difficult since there are so many racing rig solutions
     
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  5. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    I've enjoyed playing around with SSW and Audacity in creating .wav effects.
    I dont see much money being made with them as they can easily be copied.
    As stated before the only way Simvibe or SSW could make it profitable is by downloads for effects being in some way linked to user accounts only.

    I'm sure I must have now done about 300-400 files this year as part of the learning process and finding many didn't work so well for each of the individual effects. Also learning how to use Audacity and do different things with tones and the waveforms.

    My first files some of which Andre upload was not that great (looking back now) and had some things not right. The files the guys are currently testing are my V2 files but I am now finishing V3 files and so far pleased with the progress made. These are bringing a very high level of immersion with unique sensations for each effect and are forming the best tactile experience I have had used in conjunction with what I am doing with the "audio-tactile".

    From an immersion perspective, the FXXL profile in Simvibe is easily beaten, trust me it ain't even close. Better engines are possible too and mainly effects that give you useful immersion not just a load of rumble/vibes creating a sensation.

    I don't believe you will find a Simvibe profile that is anything like as good as the immersion level I am currently at with my latest SSW stuff. If someone wants to tell me what the best Simvibe profiles are or think they have very good Simvibe settings I will gladly compare, guys with the best rigs on these forums can compare.

    Financially I am not in a position to even finish my own rig never mind consider starting to do tests and working with 8020. Though I have quite a lot of ideas and things I'd like to experiment with. I highlighted that there isn't any company offering such. Could I sell a platform/package or offer a service regards private consultation on builds, the hardware, and the software, who knows. I'd like to finish my own and test some of the ideas first. I need a Patreon (lol) or just some prayers answered in getting back into a decent fulltime job.

    Will keep plugging away and making progress...
    Compliments by all appreciated ...
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
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  6. asteroulis

    asteroulis
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    Do it
     
  7. oliver65

    oliver65

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    MR. Latte
    I bought 4 Bass Shakers one is the bk Advance behause you mentioned it goes down to 5hz and also the inuke 1000 dsp. now i am very surprised that the inike has a highpassfilter just till 20hz. so the inuke dont get frequences below 20hz and its not necessary to buy a shaker going down to 5 or 10 hz. Or do you have a solution for that?
     
  8. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Don't panic @oliver65
    Yes I have a solution, lol....
    We can control frequencies of the amp below 20Hz, it's just learning how to use it :)
    The amp has no problems outputting such neither.

    Only the audible "audio frequency spectrum 20Hz -20K" is shown on the chart (that is common).

    Tell Me More?
    You can first start by turning OFF filtering for 20Hz in the Crossover
    (notice the curve)

    PEQ (Parametric EQ) and DEQ (Dynamic EQ) use different types of filters.
    You can set a Low Pass filter at 20Hz of LP6 or LP12 and adjust the gain upto 15dB and even use threshold control. You should not need to go even beyond 5dB if setting such. Be careful with excessive settings. Mess around with some audio test-tones and using the controls/feel what difference they make.

    Basically up to crazy settings are possible but the level of control is excellent.
    @5Hz or a bit above isn't much use, can be good on idle though if creating engine layers in Simvibe
    @10Hz is much more useful and can bring a lot to the immersion, including a richness to the bumps.

    Take note Buttkicer state all their units operate from 5Hz / 10Hz
    What matters is how well/strong the bigger units can generate them, BK-LFE will be best in the sub 20Hz range.

    Although I believe other owners of BKA & BK-LFE can give you better comparisons or help with tuning @signman as I do not currently own a BKA.

    Welcome to enjoying tactile btw.....
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  9. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    Here is an image showing 5Hz test tone being generated
    The iNuke does not show real-time frequencies but I can illustrate such for you.
    The curve/slope you see in the iNuke software continues below 20Hz as it does over 20Hz.

    The SPAN plugin for a DAW shows from 1Hz
    Hope it helps to give a better idea

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  10. DayGlow

    DayGlow
    Hired Goon Premium

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    Right now I have 2 transducer in extension mode, one on my chair and one under my pedals on my wheel stand. Because of space I'm not able to get a full rig and wondering if I expand to chassis mode would it be worth it. I would have 2 transducers very close together under the pedals and 2 under my chair. Would they be too close to be with it?
     
  11. TrailSlide

    TrailSlide

    Messages:
    23
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    Hi MrLatte, do you happen to have a profile for this setup

    I would love to try it, I just have to remount my 4 x mini lfes

    Simvibe
    Chassis Mode
    Soundcard (Green Socket)
    Set to Stereo 2 Channels = Pedals

    *(possible future upgrade to quadraphonic using rear channels)


    Extension Mode
    Secondary Soundcard (Green Socket)
    Seat = LFE
    Seat Back = Shifter

    Create layers and alter controls per "output channel" (Chassis/Seat/Shifter) for the device being used regards the tones and settings you should apply.
     
  12. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
    Premium

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    785
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    I think the test profile that was created "FXXL"
    Is in Assetto Corsa (page 7 of members uploads) believe it can work on all CM/EM channels.
    Although it may have had some differences in settings for the EM channels that could manually be checked and altered to those on the CM.

    The profile is complicated as it has so many layers, it was experimental but some still use it.

    All my own study or pursuits in tactile currently is with SSW, have improved the sensations a great deal for it over the default but not yet ready to release the latest files.
     
  13. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte
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    I was waiting to see if any users would return comment...

    I have helped several in the past years, that had converted office chairs etc and had pretty good tactile happening in places with little free space or small rooms. (Example) It depends on what you want to spend also, adding a unit for the spine and a large BKA or LFE to a seat will give nice immersion work with your pedals that you already have.

    Yes, stereo tactile is a nice sensation to experience as well but not in a WOW kinda way. Moving up or onto the higher-end tactile. It working with other units you have is also satisfying. Personally I'd rather have a combination of using big and small units, with the installation covering feet, bottom,spine than rush to have stereo or 4 way CM with multiple budget or average tactile units.

    Others may differ...
     
  14. Monkiusz

    Monkiusz

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    Mr Latte - are you still alive?
     
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  15. signman

    signman
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    He is at work
     
  16. Miguel Gonzalez

    Miguel Gonzalez

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    I just receive my shaker goodies in the mail today ( 4x BK mini LFEs 2x SMSL 90 amps) and im looking at how im going to mount them to my rig when a friend of mine asks me a question that i had never even considered and threw me for a loop. Is there a big difference whether its mounted horizontally or vertically in terms of the vibration that the shaker will put out? My original intent was to bolt them directly to some 3 wide 15 series 80/20 extrusions i have as support in the corners of the rig vertically like in the picture below [​IMG] Does it make a difference the orientation of the shaker in regards to the vibrations coming out?[​IMG]
     
  17. AntoN_CheZ

    AntoN_CheZ
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    Hmm I think the BK's are designed to be vertical (opposite to how your photo is). The way the piston works inside may not be optimal. Upside down would probably be OK. I have Aura's and mine are upside down and seem to be fine, but they operate a little different to the unit you have. I may be wrong, but my first option would be to have them mounted straight up. Maybe you could mount an L bracket to the rig and get them in the upright position that way?
     
  18. signman

    signman
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    I had plates made up. BK Tactile.JPG
     
  19. AntoN_CheZ

    AntoN_CheZ
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    Yep that right there looks proper. Nice job :)

    I'd love to experience some proper BK units. My Aura's are OK and with Mr. Latte's profiles really give me a good sensation, but the thump of those things would be mad. I have motion so it sort of allows me to run a smaller tactile setup. If I had the SimXperience Stage IV, I would go with these things. Bigger rig needs bigger tactile.
     
  20. Monkiusz

    Monkiusz

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    Mine LFE should arrive today too. My plan is to mount it directly to my fibreglass bucket seat. Hope it will work.

    Seat looks like that (not my photo) and I will try to drill holes on the bottom of it.
     

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