Sebastian Vettel

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

I do wonder if Vettel would up his game more with Alonso - Kimi - Hamilton or even Button as his team mate....

I don't think its a Point ofcourse he will do it quite Quickly because he just don't want to get beaten
Some guys say he was a Bad Looser but that quality only Pushing him Up and that is the Important reason if you ask why he was coming out on top.

 

[Tony Holder]

I don't think its a Point ofcourse he will do it quite Quickly because he just don't want to get beaten
Some guys say he was a Bad Looser but that quality only Pushing him Up and that is the Important reason if you ask why he was coming out on top.

Being a bad looser is good, as YOU want to win all the time....be the best....number 1. But stick him with the mentioned ones, then would he be no1?? Would be interesting...

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

I also Think the Cocoon as Hampus said would differ from Teams.
If you go to Ferrari they will have a Clear Number #1.
In RBR they will give both drivers Equal opportunity unless one comes out on top(Partly favors Sebastian but not as much as Italian Giants).
In Mclaren you don't have a Number even one Driver has a shot at title and they will both drivers race until the Final race. (Can't say about Present though )

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

Being a bad looser is good, as YOU want to win all the time....be the best....number 1. But stick him with the mentioned ones, then would he be no1?? Would be interesting...

If he has the Hunger which he had now and then yes. Also I don't doubt he will loose it in the foreseen future. Also every one considers If Alonso or Lewis or Kimi or Button as a Team mate then Vettel has the Pressure but easily forgets that Those who was his Team mate would also have same pressure watching Vettel as a Team mate. The Pressure Button and Webber has in the Last 3-4 years in the Qualification will be there and On race day too.
The Results will be based on Driver strongest Tracks , Style and Strategy.
Also Lot of People easily forgets that Vettel was Learning and Alonso , Kimi and Button was reaching the Cliff(In My view) of Learning curve and they only need to use their Experience. Lewis was in the Middle of Learning Curve but Vettel was Still learning a Lot and the Races like Brazil, Spa will boost lot of Confidence.
So it is possible for Vettel to beat them with Hard fight as the others have. My View it will be 50-50.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

only the very best drivers get the privilage to "cocoon themselfs" as you put it....its a privilage,something you need to earn within the team or the sport first..and thats not easy.

That´s not true. It´s a teams decision if they want two great drivers (and risk loosing everything) or run one strong teammate and one playing second fiddle because he´s naturally a less consistent driver.

Mclaren has pitted Senna and Prost, Alonso and Hamilton. Once it worked, the other not so much.
Arguably because the car Senna and Prost had was completely superior so they fought among themselves.
Alo and Ham had Massa and Kimi to worry about throughout the whole season.

If he wants to cement his legacy as the best in modern time, do it against one of the recognized greats of the modern time like Kimi, Lewis, Alonso.

If all he does is drive Newey designed cars and titles with Newey designed cars and no real struggle then i will forever doubt just how good he was. It´s only natural imo.

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

>SEBASTIAN VETTEL has been told he may have to quit Red Bull if he wants to earn the respect of the rest of the F1 paddock.

Considering the fact that Vettel has already been voted as the best driver on the grid (besides being voted as the best sportsman in Europe, as well as getting some other recognitions), where does this idea that Vettel still needs to "earn the respect of the rest of F1 paddock" comes from? He has done it already. This suggestion that he is yet to earn the respect is obviously biased as it contradicts the hard evidence.

>But still he has seen his position undermined, as "Fernando Alonso continues to be voted as the best driver on the grid by his rivals."

At the best, this statement is misleading as it is not only Alonso but Sebastian who had been voted as the best driver on the grid by his rivals. Besides, it is wrong to say that Alonso "continues" to be voted. There is no continuity. So far Vettel and Alonso take turns in being voted. Hence the so called conclusion that Vettel's position has been seen undermined is based as it stands on a false and misleading premise -- you might think that Vettel has never being voted as the best driver on the grid while Alonso is being voted year in year out. This is an example of how media forms the perceptions of public.

>"And former Red Bull driver David Coulthard believes the 25-year-old might now have to switch to another team to show he can win in another car to silence his critics."

One man (David C.) believes something. And Vettel is supposed to do… what? To go away from the winning team that he has won 3 titles with by now, just to prove that he cannot win without a competitive car? And thus to silence "critics"? That kind of critics he probably will never be able to silence no matter what. It is not so that Vettel has now to gamble with his carrier just to try to satisfy some people that do not, basically, care about him anyway.

>The BBC F1 co-commentator said: “We know Seb is a very talented racing driver but public perception is based on the information we are able to give them."

I find it condescending from this commentator to take for granted that F1 fans around the world are but an ignorant public whose perceptions about the F1 drivers are being based/formed on/by the information supplied by some BBC commentators (the commentators from another TV nets, like RTL for example, may be giving quite different perception on Vettel anyway).

>“Some of Sebastian’s achievements have been incredible in anybody’s book but we like to see people move around teams."

So this whole fuss has really nothing to do with Vettel, nor any driver for that matter. Nor with us, the "public". It is all about the media and their never satisfying need for stories and sensations. And now, again, what is Vettel supposed to do? They like to see people move around… and Vettel is supposed to jump so to satisfy this likening of theirs?

>“We saw Fernando Alonso going up against Lewis Hamilton at McLaren and while it did not work out, he followed his belief and it earned him the respect of the paddock."

Alonso left McLaren due to the lot of conflicts, not that he was winning the titles there and then he decided to go to a lesser team to prove himself. What he did prove in those two years after McLaren was that he could not be competitive in a non competitive car. Alonso did earn the respect, but not that way.

>“Maybe Seb also needs to move somewhere else to get the universal admiration for his talent."

Or maybe not. A question: what is "the universal admiration" supposed to be? Is there something like that even existing? The way to maybe come somewhere close to that "universal admiration" would be to get oneself killed in a spectacular way, in the middle of a race while having won the championship.

>“But meanwhile, he has three world championships, he is very successful in a team that loves him. And it is all about winning, not a popularity contest.”

At last something we can agree on.

This is the Reply for David Coulthard Statement from a Member in Planet F1 and i believe it was Well Put.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

"Considering the fact that Vettel has already been voted as the best driver on the grid (besides being voted as the best sportsman in Europe, as well as getting some other recognitions), where does this idea that Vettel still needs to "earn the respect of the rest of F1 paddock" comes from?"

Last year the team principals voted for the best driver of 2012. Low and behold, Alonso came out on top.
Weird how a guy recently took his third title was not considered the best of the year?
Same with Autosport, think they ranked him 3rd best in 2012 despite taking the title.

I question just how much the guy who wrote that article actually watch F1.
Seems like a couch-supporter who have no understanding of how things work in F1 which is completely different to let´s say a sport like 200m sprint.

Bolt doesn´t have to depend on hardware, F1 drivers do.

 

[Ivan Mills]

If all he does is drive Newey designed cars and titles with Newey designed cars and no real struggle then i will forever doubt just how good he was. It´s only natural imo.

so you're saying he should quit the team and go to a slower car ,so he can earn your respect and that of all his detractors?

 

[Hampus Andersson]

so you're saying he should quit the team and go to a slower car ,so he can earn your respect and that of all his detractors?

Not really. Just that if he never has a truly strong opponent and keep winning championships with the best car then quits the sport i will have a hard time saying he´s the best.

It´s not that i don´t recognize him as one of the best. he´s definitely in that group.
But the best? I struggle to see how anyone can make that argument in his favor frankly.
Me as a bonafide Hamilton fan can´t even make an argument that Hamilton is the best because it makes no sense when you have Alonso who´s been punching above his weight for 3 years straight with an inferior car 90% of the time.

 

[Ivan Mills]

"Considering the fact that Vettel has already been voted as the best driver on the grid (besides being voted as the best sportsman in Europe, as well as getting some other recognitions), where does this idea that Vettel still needs to "earn the respect of the rest of F1 paddock" comes from?"

Last year the team principals voted for the best driver of 2012. Low and behold, Alonso came out on top.
Weird how a guy recently took his third title was not considered the best of the year?
Same with Autosport, think they ranked him 3rd best in 2012 despite taking the title.

the majority of team principles are either British or Ferrari connected.

and Autosport ..pffff

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

Last year the team principals voted for the best driver of 2012. Low and behold, Alonso came out on top.
Weird how a guy recently took his third title was not considered the best of the year?
Same with Autosport, think they ranked him 3rd best in 2012 despite taking the title.

I think you haven't read the 2nd Point clearly Hampus. It was Not only about 2012 it was about Vettel's career in RBR.
A gallant challenge may earn the Claps but all you need is success. Not about the Drivers but also every one in Earth.

Seems like a couch-supporter

And what we were exactly

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

Not really. Just that if he never has a truly strong opponent and keep winning championships with the best car then quits the sport i will have a hard time saying he´s the best.

Having a Best car or not it was Depends on his team Designers and others
Having a Strong opponent as a Team mate it was depends on his team Decisions
Clearly asking him to do which was not in his hands

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

Also I ask you Hampus Compare Lewis, Vettel and Alonso at 25 years of age and tell me what they did and who come out on top
We have Alonso performing at the Very best at the Age of 31 and 32 not at 25. Lewis still needs to deliver like Alonso. He shown flashes but Couldn't Continue it in 2012 and 2010. But Vettel was lot younger than Both and we are clearly asking him to out Perform the Ones who was Much experienced despite they are More or Less Matched in Skills.
Give him time and We will see what he can do. But giving his hard work to The Car is not a Acceptable thing in my view

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Also I ask you Hampus Compare Lewis, Vettel and Alonso at 25 years of age and tell me what they did and who come out on top

I don´t have a crystal ball. Put them in the same car and see what happens instead.

We have Alonso performing at the Very best at the Age of 31 and 32 not at 25. Lewis still needs to deliver like Alonso. He shown flashes but Couldn't Continue it in 2012 and 2010.

Go watch the 2007 season and then say Hamilton needs to deliver like Alonso.
They were neck and neck for the whole season and both drove extremely good but ultimately Raikkonen got the better of both.
2012 we all know what happened and we can assume this is the very reason he´s in a Mercedes today.

2011 was horrendous we all saw that.

Vettel was lot younger than Both and we are clearly asking him to out Perform the Ones who was Much experienced despite they are More or Less Matched in Skills.

You do realize that both Vettel and Hamilton started racing the same year?
They have equal experience.
And there´s 2 years between them.. Not 20.
He´s not a kid. Max Chilton is a kid, not Vettel.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

the majority of team principles are either British or Ferrari connected.

Yea Ferrari is like the puppet master pulling strings everywhere.
They also ordered Checo to nearly crash his car in Malaysia last year right?

Caterham, Williams, Red Bull, Lotus all run Renault engines with Red Bull being the main team. By your logic all of them should be voting for Vettel.

Mercedes, Force India, Mclaren all run Mercedes units, neutral by your logic.

Sauber and Ferrari, by your logic Sauber should vote for Alonso because of their ties.
Now you might say well STR has a ferrari engine, well that´s about to change and they have closer ties with Red Bull since they are actually owned by Red Bull, not Ferrari.

The logic is flawed. Instead what we can do is look at the season and it´s crystal clear Alonso was the best driver of the field.

 

[Ivan Mills]

Yea Ferrari is like the puppet master pulling strings everywhere.
They also ordered Checo to nearly crash his car in Malaysia last year right?

Caterham, Williams, Red Bull, Lotus all run Renault engines with Red Bull being the main team. By your logic all of them should be voting for Vettel.

Mercedes, Force India, Mclaren all run Mercedes units, neutral by your logic.

Sauber and Ferrari, by your logic Sauber should vote for Alonso because of their ties.
Now you might say well STR has a ferrari engine, well that´s about to change and they have closer ties with Red Bull since they are actually owned by Red Bull, not Ferrari.

The logic is flawed. Instead what we can do is look at the season and it´s crystal clear Alonso was the best driver of the field.

your thinking is flawed

i said most are either British or Ferrari connected,but of course you only chose to involve Ferrari in your argument

Caterham,Force India, Mercedes,McLaren,Marrusia all either based in Britain or Originated there or are British

Alonso was undoubtedly very consistent last year ,had many amazing gains at the start and benefited from alot of situations that befell other or better teams, as well as the tyre chaos at the begining,not to mention his very compliant teammate who tested parts for him for good part of the year and later was a factor too. It's crystal clear to you ,not me. And his car was anything but inferior in the races..the Merc 2012 was inferior

 

[Hampus Andersson]

your thinking is flawed

i said most are either British or Ferrari connected,but of course you only chose to involve Ferrari in your argument

Caterham,Force India, Mercedes,McLaren,Marrusia all either based in Britain or Originated there or are British

Please go ahead and explain the "thinking" behind the fact that some teams are British and thus would vote for Alonso rather then Vettel.
I would love to hear that.

The Ferrari was definitely inferior for most of the season. Look at Austin as a good example.

 

[Ivan Mills]

Please go ahead and explain the "thinking" behind the fact that some teams are British and thus would vote for Alonso rather then Vettel.
I would love to hear that.

The Ferrari was definitely inferior for most of the season. Look at Austin as a good example.

. An inferior car to me is one of mid-field pace...like the 08,09 Renault

 

[ENDR]

And his car was anything but inferior in the races..the Merc 2012 was inferior

In which races was the F2012 AT LEAST on the same level as Mclarens and Red Bulls?

An inferior car to me is one of mid-field pace...like the 08,09 Renault

And to me "inferior" means exactly what it means - "worse", no matter by how much.
The Saubers in 2007-08 were INFERIOR to both Ferrari and Mclarens, even though they were just behind those two teams. The HRTs were INFERIOR to Marussias and Caterhams, even though all of them were wayyyyy at the back...

 

[Ivan Mills]

In which races was the F2012 AT LEAST on the same level as Mclarens and Red Bulls?

it might not have been in any,during Q,but in the races it wasnt far off,it was the 3rd best car,hardly inferior! So When you factor in all of McLaren's reliability issues and pit stop cock ups,the fact that Jenson couldnt get to grips with his set ups for a good period and then the fact that RB took a good chunk of the season to sort out Sebastiens car ,then you can see how Alonso was able to stay in it at the end