Sebastian Vettel

[Dux]

I (and I'm obviously not alone with my opinion) just don't see that Vettel has done anything that can match Hamilton, Alonso (or Kimi) when talking about skill.
I have no problem if people like different drivers, but all I see you are doing is praising Vettel in every sentence. That's the only logic I see in your posts.

Me either, after all i don't see in what he is so special, he is fast and there to win but nothing extraordinary (Hamilton)
Button playing smart and knowing how to manage the tires and stay calm when is required we saw him beat Hamilton in the standings. You either like his way or not he was better.

Button had one good statement. "I dont wanna be the fastest. i wanna be the best"

Btw i can praise every driver that became champion, IF's or not, this or that way, at the end the managed to succeed. U think i only defend Vettel.

For example in a conversation with a fan of Alonso he said the exact same thing i posted above. He was like, aaagh leave Hamilton he won cause of TImo Glock. But it's not all down to Timo Glock, someone had to fight all season! Someone had to come to that position. After all if Massa hadn't blown his engine in Hungary he would be the Champ but he isn't. So we must see the steps that brough them there. Hamilton in the least possible way he would he fighting for the title if he had a more reliable car and not pushing hard.

And Alonso would be nowhere to championship fight if he didn't won Valencia GP after both grosjean and vettel were out cause of that engine failure i almost forgot what it was... But later he was hit by Grosjean, later on in Suzuka. Before Vettel was getting stupid penalties, moved to the back, hit since the race started and even after all of that he fought and became world champion. You can have rocket, but if u don't know how to use it or drive with it nothing good will come out.

 

[Metalfreaky]

Btw i can praise every driver that became champion, IF's or not, this or that way, at the end the managed to succeed. U think i only defend Vettel.

But that is just not the point when talking about skill: forget WCC, forget wins, forget poles or fastest laps. That is succes and if you are watching F1 long enough you will know that succes is 85% (or even more) down to the car you are driving.
When talking about skill you look at errors, consistency, achiving the absolut maximum or even more (not wins, but what the car is capable of doing), the way he fights and defends, how he can analyze the situation and react to it etc... I'm sure there are things I forgot.
It is about the way they drive not the results they achive.

Take away the titles of Schumi, Senna, Prost, Alonso or Hamilton and they are still some of the greatest drivers because the way they were driving fascinated people and experts.
If I take away the succes from Vettel I see a fast driver in a fast (or superior) car, childish behavoir, luck and some stupid errors.

Of course that is maybe exaggerated but I did that just to make my point clear for you.

But it's not all down to Timo Glock, someone had to fight all season! Someone had to come to that position. After all if Massa hadn't blown his engine in Hungary he would be the Champ but he isn't. So we must see the steps that brough them there. Hamilton in the least possible way he would he fighting for the title if he had a more reliable car and not pushing hard.

It's not the title that makes Hamilton great. I personally think in '08 he had a lot of luck and maybe Massa deserved it more, but how he raced in the years after that like in 09 with that crap car was amazing.
Or how he stood up from 2011 which really was a black year for him (lol ), and matured as a driver. When McLaren did that many mistakes last year I though he will get frustrated again and start doing silly things, but he didn't (well maybe that twitter story in Spa but at least that was not on track). He stayed cool, professional and did his thing.
That's the progression I miss when I look at Vettel. I don't see how he got much better since '09 when he joined RB.

And Alonso would be nowhere to championship fight if he didn't won Valencia GP after both grosjean and vettel were out cause of that engine failure i almost forgot what it was

Where exactly would Vettel be without Japan or Spa? Hell, where would Hamilton be?

Before Vettel was getting stupid penalties, moved to the back, hit since the race started and even after all of that he fought and became world champion.

Talking about Abu Dhabi?
1. I don't see a stupid penalty. I think over the year Vettel and RB can be very pleased with the penalties they get (none of those were stupid either) considering their car was declared illegal several times.
2. How many cars did he overtook (not pass!). Take away the accidents and the backmarkers and the lucky SC at the end. I remember two overtakes (Grosjean and Button I think) and how he smashed his front wing.
No Abu Dhabi wasn't a benchmark. I have seen better races of him like in Spa.

 

[Ivan Mills]

Severely out of line with that one. This language and attitude may be acceptable on 4chan, but not anywhere else.
And Kartik presenting a balanced view of the driver he supports instead of mindlessly praising him is hardly a bad thing.

well im glad you and one of the fellas that liked your post finally get to notice Kartik and more importantly to agree with him. ....he's been trying hard to make conversation..to bad it has to be about how average Vettel is for you to finally take notice..something had to give right?


and whats 4chan?..some planet you come from where the back to back to back world champions are regarded as average,hmm?

 

[Dux]

Metalfreaky ill say only one thing.

- Vettel is the most mentally stable driver in the paddock.
- In the races he can make mistakes, no one is perfect.
- When it comes to his speed he is for sure one of the fastest, he was by 19 in F1 and thats by no accident, someone and something triggered to make that choice.
- In errors he is not alone, he won't make mistakes like that hitting the side track table in Abu Dhabi if the car in front of him wasn't braking for no purpose. (Didn't Schumi made the same mistake in Monaco 2004? Where would be his end that season if he did not made that error)
- In Brazil and Abu Dhabi 2012 both he was excellent stable and showing some good drive.

And if Hamilton won the races he was leading, and wont give away those points to Alonso and Vettel he would be 101% in front of Alonso by great margin and Alonso would be off for the title 2 races ahead.

 

[Ivan Mills]

Alonso's been driving an average car since 2008...with time you learn to make the most of it,and take your losses in stride...we all remember how he behaved in 2007 and all the temper tantrums that came with it!
On the other hand ,when you have a fast car year in and out like Vettel you get used to winning,so its normal to be dissapointed when things dont go your way
Does that make you average.?,no! But it does in the eyes of people that dislike you

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Vettel is the most mentally stable driver in the paddock.

 

[Daniel Ciglar]

Button playing smart and knowing how to manage the tires and stay calm when is required we saw him beat Hamilton in the standings. You either like his way or not he was better.

Button had one good statement. "I dont wanna be the fastest. i wanna be the best"

1. Button managed to beat Hamilton once ... in Hamilton's worst ever season. I think we all agree that Monaco that year was the turning point, after that race he was driving like a fool for most of the time. Until Monaco, he managed to beat Button in 4 out of 5 races.Now I don't wanna take away anything from Jenson, but it's not like he was racing against a Lewis Hamilton in his best mental state at that time.

2. "I don't wanna be the fastest, I wanna be the best." Unfortunately neither of these two things match with Jenson Button. In 2012, Hamilton has lost 120-140 points due to no fault of his own (screwed up pitstops, relieability issues, etc.) and STILL managed to finish infront of Button in the standings. Hu-mi-li-ation. If it wasn't for McLaren screwing up in Spain, the gearbox-change + penalty in China and the wrong setup at Spa, their qualifying duel this year would have been 18-2. Eighteen - two (!!).

I believe Hamilton's career is pretty much over at this point, but even implying that Button has been better than him in any way or form is simply ridiculous. Even in his worst races of 2011 Hamilton has never finished 16th without any accidents and his teammate winning a race. Only reason Button looks better statistically in these three years than he has been is the fact that LH was either extremely unlucky or lacking mental stability.

 

[Metalfreaky]

- Vettel is the most mentally stable driver in the paddock.

Pl s explain why? I am very curious.

In the races he can make mistakes, no one is perfect.

Of course he can, but he should not. Alonso surely has done less mistakes. The last one I remember was at the begining of 2011 when he clipped Hamiltons rear wheel at Malaysia.

- In errors he is not alone, he won't make mistakes like that hitting the side track table in Abu Dhabi if the car in front of him wasn't braking for no purpose. (Didn't Schumi made the same mistake in Monaco 2004? Where would be his end that season if he did not made that error)

The car car in front was not parking but warming up his brakes which is a pretty normal calcualble thing to do during a SC. It is the same thing that casued Button in Singapore to almost crash into Vettel. I bet you don't consider that as "braking fo no purpose".
Schumi did not made the same error. It was Montoya who drove straight into his back while Schumi was warming up his brakes.

And if Hamilton won the races he was leading, and wont give away those points to Alonso and Vettel he would be 101% in front of Alonso by great margin and Alonso would be off for the title 2 races ahead.

Same goes for Vettel

 

[Ken Hunter]

Gents, whether Vettel's car is fast...reliable....well engineered or whatever, the fact is this kid can drive a racing car better than most..if not all..sharing the track with him at the moment.
Why everyone has an exception to him pointing his finger up...confirming his first place, is beyond me. When Schumi used to jump up on the podium, like a jack rabbit, no one saw any wrong in that. Please!!! Give him a break for expressing his emotions...
.....And just by the way, i am a staunch Ferrari supporter.

 

[Scott Webber]

some of these comments are facepalm, really... chill out guys jeez, he shouldn't make mistakes? are you insane? we're all human we will make mistake whether your the best in the world or not it happens.

 

[Alberto Casado]

- Vettel is the most mentally stable driver in the paddock.

Jokes aside, I've yet to see (for example) Button say a loud word or get in a tantrum.

Vettel the most mentally stable. The things you have to read when you have eyes...

 

[Tony Holder]

David Coulthard has urged Sebastian Vettel to leave Red Bull, saying he will never achieve greatness if he doesn't win a title with a different team.....

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/8580668/-Vettel-must-leave-to-cement-legacy-

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I think he needs a strong teammate. Give him Hamilton or Alonso and we´ll see just how good Vettel is.

That way we can exclude the car from the conversation since it´s more or less irrelevant since both are driving the same machine.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Must feel bad to become the youngest triple world champion ever and always have to hear its the car that did it and not you the driver.

 

[Tony Holder]

I think he needs a strong teammate. Give him Hamilton or Alonso and we´ll see just how good Vettel is.

That way we can exclude the car from the conversation since it´s more or less irrelevant since both are driving the same machine.

Not taking anything away from Webber. But yes, that would be interesting.....

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

I don't think he will have a Strong Team mate in the Near future Not in RBR and not even at Ferrari if he moved to Italian Marquee.

 

[Ivan Mills]

I agree with Kartik on this...drivers like Vettel and Alonso dont need a strong teammate to win the Championship...which is what F1 is about..

DC tends to lose the plot every now and again,so i forgive him for this silly comment.No need to prove anything to anybody as long as the number of Championships grows.

Vettel should stay at RB for as long as the car is fast..and then when Alonso retires or slows down he should jump in the Ferrari..or whatever other top notch car is available..the door will always be open to him if he maintains the form of his last 3yrs

 

[Hampus Andersson]

It´s natural for most drivers to cocoon themselves in absolute safety.
that way when the car is the best they don´t have a direct competitor for the title which makes the job a whole lot easier.

 

[Ivan Mills]

It´s natural for most drivers to cocoon themselves in absolute safety.
that way when the car is the best they don´t have a direct competitor for the title which makes the job a whole lot easier.

only the very best drivers get the privilage to "cocoon themselfs" as you put it....its a privilage,something you need to earn within the team or the sport first..and thats not easy.

 

[Tony Holder]

It´s natural for most drivers to cocoon themselves in absolute safety.
that way when the car is the best they don´t have a direct competitor for the title which makes the job a whole lot easier.

I do wonder if Vettel would up his game more with Alonso - Kimi - Hamilton or even Button as his team mate....