PC1 Project Cars - What's the point if....

Is Project Cars dead? Why is it possible to read about it but not possible to buy or try it?
Seems a bit pointless if it has just turned into an exclusive club for those who already have it.

Maybe I'm missing it, but I cannot see any link to download, try, or buy; and the forums are not taking new registrations. This does not seem like a very good way of keeping the project alive :(
 

mapu13

@Simberia
Thanks Chronus, what it means to be a "hardcore simmer" makes easily more sense than calling a game itself a hardcore sim. A simulator is either a sim, or it is not. No need for funky terms. :)

Anyway I follow the mindset that a particular car in a racing sim should be driven as close to it's real counterpart as possible (and the simulator should at least be able to meet set requirements or try to take it a step further), doing otherwise could render lines of the software code needless. But I can understand when people use build-in helpers for "beginners", like automatic gears, car stabilizers, automatic spin-correction etc. However, I can not accept little helpers, to bury problems in the software code.
 
Thanks Chronus, what it means to be a "hardcore simmer" makes easily more sense than calling a game itself a hardcore sim. A simulator is either a sim, or it is not. No need for funky terms. :)

Anyway I follow the mindset that a particular car in a racing sim should be driven as close to it's real counterpart as possible (and the simulator should at least be able to meet set requirements or try to take it a step further), doing otherwise could render lines of the software code needless. But I can understand when people use build-in helpers for "beginners", like automatic gears, car stabilizers, automatic spin-correction etc. However, I can not accept little helpers, to bury problems in the software code.

I agree with much of this but when getting into a set standard to simulate real life that question as well will be debated of what one's perception of that is to another's. The idea itself is good in the sense that this is the way RL is and is something that can be proven how that is then replicated is where things start to vary immensely. It then comes down to who's right and who's wrong when even the people who have a valid argument due to personal experience can't always agree . The fact that the varying opinions exist along with personal tastes are great reason to have games that don't all play the same.
As far as labels that I have used in some of my descriptions to make a point or two are ones created by the communities so at times it makes sense to use them. The validity of them may be of a lesser point really and the main thing is how you feel about these titles. The most important thing is the gaming experience one gets from these and how they interpret that. While I like rFactor quite a bit, iRacing may just be one I don't care for too much for my own reasons not to say it's bad or anything just not for me.
 

mapu13

@Simberia
I am not sure if I am about to hit your main argument, so I will keep it simple for now.

At first I do believe that there are features, that have been introduced to sims in the past, which are crucial and therefore should not be missed out in the following generations of sims if these new sims don't want to fall behind their predecessors. Also I do believe that each generation of sims should introduce new features which keep the evolution of the genre going.

Secondly, the feeling and/or handling of a simulation - or to be more accurate, the feeling of a certain car that gets simulated in a virtual environment is only temporary, mostly a subjective impression which should be changeable by building reasonable setups. A simulation by itself has to be able to reproduce certain data into a virtual environment that corresponds with data taken in a certain environment. I am not sure but I believe - and this seems to be only logical - that such data is collected in a environment that is as neutral as possible.
 
pCARS can proceed without concern as Ian Bell has posted the following statements on the WMD forums:

'"I've just had a call from our lawyer and we have a solution and a system to allow investment into the projects going forward.

First up will be the PS4 and Durango versions opened for investment. Yes, I said INVESTMENT.
smile.png


I should also mention that we're now official PS4 developers".

Refer to: http://forum.wmdportal.com/showthre...oject-CARS-WMD&p=445928&viewfull=1#post445928

FSA decision and refunds for current members:

"Hello WMD and pCARS members.

Following lengthy discussions with the FSA and our lawyers and other professionals, we are going to make some changes to pCARS and WMD.

The finer detail has not been finalised but recent comments have made us decide to make one feature of WMD and pCARS very clear to all members.

That is that anyone who is a member can have their money back at any time.

As many of you know that has always been our policy - though we haven't promoted the fact, for obvious reasons. However whoever has asked for it has got it and we figured that you should all know you have that option.

If you want to you may choose to remove yourself from pCARS now or you may choose to stay - and if you want to stay then please give us a little time to put the finishing touches to the structure.

The choice, however, is yours.

If you would like to leave WMD and the pCARS development system now please inform Vittorio Rapa by PM who will arrange your refund.

Thanks for your support and thanks to our advisers for their advice over the last few months."

Refer to: http://forum.wmdportal.com/showthread.php?14089-Money-back-offer.

New cars:

1952 300 SL W194
1971 300SEL 6.8 AMG 'Rote Sau'
1989 Sauber C9
1990 190E 2.5-16 Evolution 2 (DTM racing version)
1998 CLK-LM
2012 SLS AMG GT3
2012 C-Class Coupe DTM
2013 A45 AMG
2010 SLS AMG Coupé

Refer to http://forum.wmdportal.com/showthread.php?14092-Mercedes-license
 

mapu13

@Simberia
Thanks Birddogg66. Pcars just isn't my cup of tea and never will be, for reason that have been discussed many times.:)

Feel free to enlighten me DrJustice. I'd like to know where the true irony is hidden.

According to Tudor, WMD is not and has never been an investment scheme. "I guarantee we never said it was an investment opportunity, ever, because we know the legal implications of calling it that.

and further, Mr. Tudor says:

"There may have been talk, or people may have interpreted it that way and replied back to posts saying it's an investment, but it's not. We were very clear. We discussed this for months and months before we launched. Internally we never called it an investment, externally we never called it an investment, the terms and conditions never call it an investment, ever.

source (23.04.2013): http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-18-driving-ambition-pcars-crowdfunding-and-the-fsa
 
Feel free to enlighten me DrJustice. I'd like to know where the true irony is hidden.

At WMD or Nogripracing forums you will find a dozen individuals who have nothing substantial to contribute to discussions. They're the ones stirring the pot (accusations of false statements, insults, mockery) or laughing alongside the louder types. You'll find them derailing threads or forcing the hand of some moderators in order to close a thread at NG - the sort of thing that happened right here, sadly, and almost caused a serious problem for/between two separate entities/companies.

No enlightenment can come from them, if you read 1 year old threads at several forums you'll understand this easily.

I see, now it is officially an investment, how ironic is this?

It is odd, no doubt. Initially, it was an investment. Then, it became something other than an investment (as your quotes/links show). And now, it is an investment after all.

Obviously, an investment, and obviously nothing wrong with that, like you I am pleased that this FCA affair ended well. Simracing in general, in my opinion, could not afford a debacle of such proportions (any simracing developer seeking investments would have a hard time getting it from a similar community), but more than that several individuals risked a lot by investing their economies into C.A.R.S.. Regardless of the character of some WMD members and investors, we should be relieved this was the outcome.
 
At WMD or Nogripracing forums you will find a dozen individuals who have nothing substantial to contribute to discussions. They're the ones stirring the pot (accusations of false statements, insults, mockery) or laughing alongside the louder types. You'll find them derailing threads or forcing the hand of some moderators in order to close a thread at NG - the sort of thing that happened right here, sadly, and almost caused a serious problem for/between two separate entities/companies.

No enlightenment can come from them, if you read 1 year old threads at several forums you'll understand this easily.
^ That's a fair amount of pot-stirring, accusations, false statements, insults and mockery right there, as usual. Always on the attack. Look in the mirror, Chronus...

The irony is of course that things are going exeedingly well at WMD, including the FSA business.
 

mapu13

@Simberia
The irony is of course that things are going exeedingly well at WMD, including the FSA business.

Sorry I don't see the irony, still.

Beside, Chronus is only mentioning examples - examples well known - but not naming anyone in particular. I know these one year old (and older) threads - many along the way got deleted by moderators too. So do not worry, I know the situation well enough. Turning a blind eye, closing eyes and hope to get through with minimum harm or shuffling off the blame and trying to lay it into somebody else shoes doesn't work anymore. It's too late, accusations have been made, one side or the other - doesn't matter. It won't be for the better of the project if this keeps going on. Might be better to come clean.
 
I think it's all a matter of trust put forth toward the individuals whom created the original form for funding pCARS and using some logic to back that up. Seeing that the original plan was acceptable enough to move forward in it's current state for the duration of the project says that really no rules were intently broken and only gray areas that needed to be worked out. It was also seen that changes needed to be made going forward and that all I's are dotted and all T's are crossed with a new system that is within the FSA guideline even if WMD does not need accreditation of that administration.
I always read into the FSA stuff as just being smoke but in the end a mind easer for many. My logic has always told me SMS is hard at work trying to build their future and new Crowd funding platform and to rip off or upset the people who have stood behind the concept is economic suicide.
I have always had the faith that this would not happen so never fed into the gloom and doom aspect of all which has been going on and those that question this concept. I choose to be a part of the structure and support the changes going forward because I believe in hard work and just reward for those engaging in that and the current publisher based style of game creation does not always do that. Am I against the publishers? No but I believe the developers deserve more recognition and compensation for the work they do.
 
[...] because I believe in hard work and just reward for those engaging in that and the current publisher based style of game creation does not always do that. Am I against the publishers? No but I believe the developers deserve more recognition and compensation for the work they do.

Certainly not worth much, but we agree on that: hard work and just compensation for it.

Companies need investment, though. And contracts. Publishers are one way (with its disadvantages and dangers) to get to the ONE objective, which is survive and keep working, and if possible, growing,

Crowdfunding or any other way of getting contributions/funds depend on investments made by people. You may not know these people, what they represent and what their goals are.

Some of these people may certainly be unrelated to the raison d'etre of the community which is contributing to the company and its projects - in other words, while some contributors actually care about the community and share its dreams and long term objectives, others look at companies (particularly startup companies) as a means to an objective: making money.

Given the fact that often crucial decisions depend on weighted voting, you cannot be sure that those decisions aren't contrary to the original focus or intentions of the contributing community.

As such, and ample evidence of that as been given by several individuals, these contribution/funding efforts may be almost as bad as depending on the whims of publishers (and we know what those whims are).
 
Certainly not worth much, but we agree on that: hard work and just compensation for it.

Companies need investment, though. And contracts. Publishers are one way (with its disadvantages and dangers) to get to the ONE objective, which is survive and keep working, and if possible, growing,

Crowdfunding or any other way of getting contributions/funds depend on investments made by people. You may not know these people, what they represent and what their goals are.

Some of these people may certainly be unrelated to the raison d'etre of the community which is contributing to the company and its projects - in other words, while some contributors actually care about the community and share its dreams and long term objectives, others look at companies (particularly startup companies) as a means to an objective: making money.

Given the fact that often crucial decisions depend on weighted voting, you cannot be sure that those decisions aren't contrary to the original focus or intentions of the contributing community.

As such, and ample evidence of that as been given by several individuals, these contribution/funding efforts may be almost as bad as depending on the whims of publishers (and we know what those whims are).

This is why it is good for SMS to retain 50% control at all times to do away with things that might be considered absurd or against the general direction toward the overall goal. I see it as only being used as a trump card in extreme situations. The only way I could ever see a 50/50 stalemate is if this was the US house of representatives. I think they have come up with a plan that will work remaining a private company that trades shares internally going forward. No chance of EA doing a hostile take over.
 
Just a small bit of info into the new funding model SMS will be launching at some point for all future funding into what ever becomes offered on the crowd funding WMD platform. Always a good business rule to follow is CYOA first.
Publicly traded companies are always at risk of hostile take over by someone purchasing 51% of the stock. By limiting # of shares and retaining 50% of it will avoid such scenario but also allows investors to have an equal stake into ongoing projects a good formula IMO.
Anyway I have nothing against EA and believe they can get back to being the great company they once were but like the fact SMS had to answer to EA. EA itself has to answer to it's stock holders where quarterly dividends mean everything.
 

Ole Marius Myrvold

JWB 96-13
Staff
Premium
So, now that it is an investement... I would like to see some more information.

I can see the fees returned to members beeing 150 members per pack, and 3.75mill EUR in dec. costs for 1 year. That's nice and well.

However, how many members are really supporting this? What are the estimated dev costs now. how many years of dev. is the goal for the game.

I remember when I planned to "invest" in this, the FAQ was just for members. So I registered, but then I had to be a paying member to read the FAQ...

There are so many big words, so little information.
 
Well Ole Marius the way the current financial bit was structured was not in any real violations and only exhibited a couple of gray areas the FSA did not like to the point that they forced SMS to create or tweak the structure for any new projects or funding on WMD portal. Any new funding to take place will be considered investment and will be structured as such. We do not have full details of this as of yet in regards to the changes that will be made but will in time.
 

How much money have you spend on your current simracing hardware

  • €0-150

    Votes: 84 19.4%
  • €151-500

    Votes: 119 27.5%
  • €501-1000

    Votes: 71 16.4%
  • €1001-1500

    Votes: 37 8.6%
  • €1501-3000

    Votes: 42 9.7%
  • €3001-5000

    Votes: 22 5.1%
  • €5001-10000

    Votes: 27 6.3%
  • I stopped counting a long time ago

    Votes: 30 6.9%
Top