PC1 Project Cars - What's the point if....

Is Project Cars dead? Why is it possible to read about it but not possible to buy or try it?
Seems a bit pointless if it has just turned into an exclusive club for those who already have it.

Maybe I'm missing it, but I cannot see any link to download, try, or buy; and the forums are not taking new registrations. This does not seem like a very good way of keeping the project alive :(
 
But now they need help of a new game to finish pCars.

They have the needed funds to finish the game. To get the proposed elements in for release it was decided more time would be needed. So yes it has been pushed back for the 1st half of 2014 for release. Assetto has also been pushed back and rF2 is taking more time than assumed. So we will all get the titles we have been waiting for in due time. As for funding reopening I cannot give an accurate comment in those regards we shall see?
 
source please
I think the assumption at one point was late 2012(Maybe I'm thinking the preview) but really don't see it being important enough to go digging and have enough on my plate to keep me busy until official releases for any of these. The big one to question is Kart Sim and how that is coming along because that is considerably delayed. I think the important thing in my post was the in due time quote.
 
I think the assumption at one point was late 2012(Maybe I'm thinking the preview) but really don't see it being important enough to go digging

It was important enough for you to say it. So, yes, go dig it up, unless it was just something you came up with to justify pCARS being "pushed back for the 1st half of 2014 for release".

Curious thing about it is, pushing back the release date is no drama. Many sims and software were released often much later than anticipated. The important thing is to have it released in a good state, with no major bugs, and offering the features promised.
 
^ Re AC release date: http://www.virtualr.net/assetto-corsa-release-date-update

It's widely known that they had announced a release late 2012 ."Everybody" was talking about it. As all knowing sim experts, you guys ought to know that (my guess is that you actually do...;)).

Thanks for backing me on this because I really had no idea where to start looking and is posted in that thread is stated the tech preview being delayed also.(thankfully here now). So I guess I still do have some marbles left.
I also didn't see it being important enough to started a lengthy debate over it as Chronus may think.

Eat Drink and be happy everyone your awaited for games will arrive.
 
Curious thing about it is, pushing back the release date is no drama. Many sims and software were released often much later than anticipated. The important thing is to have it released in a good state, with no major bugs, and offering the features promised.

Famous Quote about Projects (in general): "You can do it Fast, Cheap or Right. Pick 2."

Most people/teams care more about money than time and are reluctant to sacrifice quality so usually we end up with project delays.
 
Famous Quote about Projects (in general): "You can do it Fast, Cheap or Right. Pick 2."

Most people/teams care more about money than time and are reluctant to sacrifice quality so usually we end up with project delays.

Actually, that is not my experience at all. Somewhere, a group of directors or consortium heads determine the size of the budget for the project and when time runs out, either some heads roll or a limited amount of money (one last effort) is re-allocated to help the project regain momentum or go past whatever problem/obstacle there is.Sadly, I have seen it happen too many times and often this always puts people right on the edge.

Obviously, the entertainment software industry seems to live by different rules.
 

mapu13

@Simberia
Indeed, an interesting read with some shocking content if all the investor-interviews are true. Can't believe people can be so naive. Had to chuckle because of the many "ifs", "possibilities" and "maybes" by the interviewed developers.

Tudor:
If the word 'investment' ever comes up it's either accidental or being used in the broad sense of the English language, meaning 'involvement'.

I thought this is serious business! lol

Anyhow, this article sums about up what my concerns have been since the beginning of the wmd project.
 
I think there are some minor details to work out with the structure of the funding + returns terms and how it's written. The fact Ponzi was a word even used in this article my only comment to that is use common sense that says SMS is trying to build it's future with WMD not tear it down so the thought of screwing the people who are of the biggest group supporting them and their efforts just does not add up. It would be suicide would it not?
As for me I have no worries I believe in SMS as much as many other top developers that receive a lot of praise and am engaged into their titles.
Where I draw the line is when someone is called a moron for wanting to put forth a large sum into something they believe in. This was done by a couple of people there. Very Wrong for it to happen. This person never did a damn thing to deserve the comments directed at him.
 

mapu13

@Simberia
[...]
As for me I have no worries I believe in SMS as much as many other top developers that receive a lot of praise and am engaged into their titles. [...]

But why, I wonder do people have so much faith into this? For me, the previous game titles from SMS and the way they got promoted destroyed any positive reputation. I don't believe in a revolutionary turn, which would mean starting from zero, after a mediocre NFS Shift and a worse Shift Unleashed. Either can I believe in a revolutionary project that uses progressive membership dues and still talks about equality among the members. The only equality that existed, was to buy oneself into a membership, best of all - a manager status. It's business and the people have to buy into it and therefore I refuse to talk about equality in a world, built on neocapitalism.

BaldApe:
"They pay a certain amount of money and are promised a share of potential profits, and this share is proportional to the amount of money they paid. Looks like an investment, swims like an investment, quacks like an investment..."

This is perfectly true and I believe that all other talks are only extenuations to calm the waves. I mean, does somebody really believe that a member with manager status could loose his investment because he doesn't contribute anything else? As mentioned in the article, something can always be found to call it a contribution. And the worse thing about it is, it hasn't be set in stone or put on the table yet - no hard facts about what a contribution is and what not.

This and more gives me doubts about this "revolutionary" thing that is promoted like the next ultimate thing.
 
As for me I have no worries I believe in SMS as much as many other top developers that receive a lot of praise and am engaged into their titles.
Where I draw the line is when someone is called a moron for wanting to put forth a large sum into something they believe in. This was done by a couple of people there. Very Wrong for it to happen. This person never did a damn thing to deserve the comments directed at him.

I was thinking last year, a fella nicknamed Micas used to "walk" around here and boast about his thousands of dollars invested into the project. No one called him a single name because of that; his behaviour, though, provoked others into insulting him as well (classic, he posted long walls of text filled with insults, inevitably people shot back - wrong, for sure, but understandable).

Don't remember anyone calling an investor or a potential investor any names lately. If that actually happen, it's obvious who the "moron" is - and it's not he or she who wants to invest his or her own money.


But why, I wonder do people have so much faith into this? For me, the previous game titles from SMS and the way they got promoted destroyed any positive reputation.

That is an interesting question. Why indeed. I think not all investors are avid simracers or even have a passing interest in simulations. This was proven last year when Micas and some others came here to "explain" what was happening. If that is so, then it's not a matter of faith but of classic investment risk taking.

But some of those that became members seem to...er...feverishly believe in the concept (community based development). Which, obviously, no longer is in effect from the moment that different members with different investments have a different weight/say on development/management matters. Micas was quite clear about that, and to be fair, that is how investments work - the more you put in the more you can say about important matters (or any matter).

For it to be a truly community project, each member should have the opportunity to contribute with whatever they chose (from 25 Euros up, for sure), but each member would share the same rights/responsibilities in decision making. Different people, but any voice as important as the next. Then, either SMS would make some decisions based on the majority of votes by the "community", or at the very least statistics (opinion polls or even important votes) would influence some of the objectives of the project. That would be quite close to "community development".

That would require some risks, which SMS or other companies would not or will not take. Understandable too.

Regarding previous game titles:

I cannot accept hype, it is a repulsive albeit sophisticated way of lying to potential customers. Marketing departments such as the one from iRacing are examples example of what NOT TO DO. Other examples exist as well, but iRacing is by far the most explicit in this regard.

I don't think SMS has had any bearing in the marketing of previous titles. The Shift series is controlled by EA; EA is known for hyping any thing, from the "ultra realism of FIFA" (oh my...) to Shift titles being "stunningly realistic". Test Drive Ferrari Legends was/is controlled by ATARI.

It is true that both Ian and Doug said (in interviews) some relevant things about how promising the new physics engine was, but that pales in comparison to iRacing's marketing dept. claims or EA's promotional "skills".

Either can I believe in a revolutionary project that uses progressive membership dues and still talks about equality among the members. The only equality that existed, was to buy oneself into a membership, best of all - a manager status. It's business and the people have to buy into it and therefore I refuse to talk about equality in a world, built on neocapitalism.

Stratification was inevitable when a bigger investment allows that member different things.

Pure business, not a community as some hoped for. That said, I doubt there is a single member who didn't know what exactly he/she was getting into. The WMD portal was quite clear about different types of membership and what they entitled their owners.
 
I was thinking last year, a fella nicknamed Micas used to "walk" around here and boast about his thousands of dollars invested into the project. No one called him a single name because of that; his behaviour, though, provoked others into insulting him as well (classic, he posted long walls of text filled with insults, inevitably people shot back - wrong, for sure, but understandable).

Don't remember anyone calling an investor or a potential investor any names lately. If that actually happen, it's obvious who the "moron" is - and it's not he or she who wants to invest his or her own money.




That is an interesting question. Why indeed. I think not all investors are avid simracers or even have a passing interest in simulations. This was proven last year when Micas and some others came here to "explain" what was happening. If that is so, then it's not a matter of faith but of classic investment risk taking.

But some of those that became members seem to...er...feverishly believe in the concept (community based development). Which, obviously, no longer is in effect from the moment that different members with different investments have a different weight/say on development/management matters. Micas was quite clear about that, and to be fair, that is how investments work - the more you put in the more you can say about important matters (or any matter).

For it to be a truly community project, each member should have the opportunity to contribute with whatever they chose (from 25 Euros up, for sure), but each member would share the same rights/responsibilities in decision making. Different people, but any voice as important as the next. Then, either SMS would make some decisions based on the majority of votes by the "community", or at the very least statistics (opinion polls or even important votes) would influence some of the objectives of the project. That would be quite close to "community development".

That would require some risks, which SMS or other companies would not or will not take. Understandable too.

Regarding previous game titles:

I cannot accept hype, it is a repulsive albeit sophisticated way of lying to potential customers. Marketing departments such as the one from iRacing are examples example of what NOT TO DO. Other examples exist as well, but iRacing is by far the most explicit in this regard.

I don't think SMS has had any bearing in the marketing of previous titles. The Shift series is controlled by EA; EA is known for hyping any thing, from the "ultra realism of FIFA" (oh my...) to Shift titles being "stunningly realistic". Test Drive Ferrari Legends was/is controlled by ATARI.

It is true that both Ian and Doug said (in interviews) some relevant things about how promising the new physics engine was, but that pales in comparison to iRacing's marketing dept. claims or EA's promotional "skills".



Stratification was inevitable when a bigger investment allows that member different things.

Pure business, not a community as some hoped for. That said, I doubt there is a single member who didn't know what exactly he/she was getting into. The WMD portal was quite clear about different types of membership and what they entitled their owners.

Well if someone puts themselves out there for the sake of a debate that's one thing. They almost expect less than positive replies. What is happening over @Eurogamer forums is a person who is innocent that never stirs the pot is being attacked for his stake in pCARS and how that came to happen. Further more this person on the attacking end brought his family into the picture. That is about as low as one could go. Yes I draw the line with this persons behavior.
If I get into debate with you guys on a one to one basis I can usually forget it and move on with no hard feelings but what this guy has done is totally out of line. Don't know what other forums he's from but he's a special kind of troll.
 
Well if someone puts themselves out there for the sake of a debate that's one thing. They almost expect less than positive replies.

That is exactly where some people (including me) draw a line.

You see "putting oneself out there for the sake of debate" as totally different from the "innocent that never stirs the pot" - that is a failed and very serious take on civil coexistence between people with different ideas. So what if people put themselves out there for debate? What is wrong in saying that pCARS or some other sim is not to one's liking? Why does this have to elicit ganging up on someone? Why does criticism make you or me "expect less than positive replies"? I find that puzzling.

Well, you see one situation at Eurogamer forums. Multiply that by a 100 and you'll get the type of occurrences we've experienced at NG just because people dislike SMS or pCARS.

Further more this person on the attacking end brought his family into the picture. That is about as low as one could go. Yes I draw the line with this persons behavior.

Not too long ago, someone right here fetched information from WMD forums (private to the outside world) just to throw at someone who disagrees with the guy on pCARS. Not only that, he made less than noble considerations about that other member's driving abilities and exposed some "facts" for others to see.

Unacceptable behaviour. In both cases.

If I get into debate with you guys on a one to one basis I can usually forget it and move on with no hard feelings but what this guy has done is totally out of line. Don't know what other forums he's from but he's a special kind of troll.

You get into a debate with us "guys" and you can "usually forget it and move on", and that guy is a "special kind of troll".

Birddogg, I have to agree with other guys, this post of yours "expects less than positive replies", but...lets move on.
 
I was thinking last year, a fella nicknamed Micas used to "walk" around here and boast about his thousands of dollars invested into the project. No one called him a single name because of that; his behaviour, though, provoked others into insulting him as well (classic, he posted long walls of text filled with insults, inevitably people shot back - wrong, for sure, but understandable).

Actually, it's over a hundred thousand dollars invested into pCARS - just so we're accurate.

As for my "behavior", that's just a matter of perspective. I bent a handful of people here.. whereas hundreds of WMD members thought I was spot on. Yes, I do like to tweak people who obviously have a deranged view of the subject, because actually engaging them in a sensible discussion is pointless. Ian tried - and the usual suspects are still going on and on about how dreadful the game is. Some men, you just can't reach.

There are opinions, and then there is manic and obsessive behavior. I happen to take exception to those that are rooting for SMS to fail. In all my years of gaming forum banter, I have never seen such bile. At first it was shocking. Now it's a running joke.

As a result of the Eurogamer article, the usual trolls are spewing the usual uninformed drivel. A person doesn't come by a hundred grand to throw at a video game by being 'naive'. Not a single one of the 11 Senior Managers of pCARS are the slightest bit worried. There's a reason for that. It's all about Ian Bell. In fact, we're wildly ecstatic, and for good reason. *hint* - people with large amounts invested are privy to information that your typical 45 euro member is not. That's just one of those this is how the real world works realities. Ian hinted at some big news in his post to the Eurogamer article, and I'm shocked that so few (probably no one) picked up on it. That's what was really interesting about the whole deal - not 20 paragraphs of wildly inaccurate obsessing on the FSA issue.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. Once the game ships, the reviews are in, and the returns are coming, I'll be back here to gloat in epic proportions. I'll even let you know exactly how much money I've made from the venture because it'll be a public percentage of the net revenue. Then we can talk about how 'naive' I've been - as another fellow put it.
 
Actually, it's over a hundred thousand dollars invested into pCARS - just so we're accurate.

I am glad you are able to invest such an amount. You obviously did your research, looked around in search for a project with a potentially secure return and bet on it. Typical "investor", look at stats, do some crude math and risk a certain amount.

Ok. No problem with that.

As for my "behavior", that's just a matter of perspective.

No, obviously not a matter of perspective. Your walls of text littered with insults have become a notoriously (bad) label for a certain type of WMD member.

But I do understand where you come from.

As a result of the Eurogamer article, the usual trolls are spewing [...]

It is rather revealing and mildly interesting how 1 year later you are still at it.

It would be great if a company such as SMS could live without investors such as yourself, but the real world sometimes forces upon people and companies such associations. The inevitability of money.

Good riddance.
 
It would be great if a company such as SMS could live without investors such as yourself, but the real world sometimes forces upon people and companies such associations. The inevitability of money.

Good riddance.

Isn't that speaking for SMS, and making assumptions about my relationship with the devs and Ian? Ian certainly didn't need to take my money. He could refund me the entire amount at any time, and it wouldn't be any problem for them. I get along with all the staff quite well, and they've never had a problem with my posting here. I simply stopped posting because the absurd meter had pegged.

In short, they could live without me, but they appreciated my stepping up financially on day 1, and they appreciate my contributions to the development of the game, as they do many other WMD members. They don't care that you, or anybody else here, has a problem with me. I'm working with SMS in a positive way to help create the best product possible, and you think SMS would prefer to live without me? That's funny.

This is the bit I alluded to before from Ian that should have generated a lot of interest IMO. The whole FSA issue pales in comparison to this;

We have been approached by three 1st party console vendors and about a dozen investment houses asking if they can take part in some way, how can they help us etc.

Does anyone think that these companies are being altruistic? Hell no. They pay attention to what's going on, and they want a piece because they can see this is going to be a huge success. Some people just assume that if it's a commercial success, then the developer had to sell out and create a crap game. Apparently the only "real sims" are the ones that ship 50k units if they're lucky. If a game sells 1m units, then it's automatically "simcade" or some other such nonsense. That's the sort of incoherent logic that irritates me.

What I say or don't say doesn't matter either, other than it obviously gets on the tits of some people who simply can't see the bigger picture, and are too impatient to let things develop. But, I guess I'm terribly naive. Nobody could have predicted that a company that shipped millions of units of a racing game could do even better when allowed to make a game without being handcuffed by a publisher? Actually, some of us knew.

Oh dear.. did I wall of text again?
 

How much money have you spend on your current simracing hardware

  • €0-150

    Votes: 85 19.4%
  • €151-500

    Votes: 119 27.2%
  • €501-1000

    Votes: 72 16.4%
  • €1001-1500

    Votes: 38 8.7%
  • €1501-3000

    Votes: 43 9.8%
  • €3001-5000

    Votes: 23 5.3%
  • €5001-10000

    Votes: 27 6.2%
  • I stopped counting a long time ago

    Votes: 31 7.1%
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