PC1 Pcars: A community divided

[Nathan Robinson]

Continuation of Part 1: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/banned-for-no-reason.47384/

Its hard to believe a game has taken a community over like this. Now with legal proceedings, its kind of become a joke for simmers. I have been at this a while now and have never seen a game invoke so much negative and positive reaction. May the discussions continue


Ps. While i continue to support pcars, i respect RD for allowing the freedom of expression to all its members.

 

[Ian Bell]

But it's an opinion of a member and not RD. A screen was posted yesterday of a guy being banned for liking a post? Which is really being banned for no reason. I'm pretty sure i was still around then when that happened and you said the car was behaving like that because it was on the limiter or something. Ben Collins then came on a while after and agreed with the guys who posted.

This guy wasn't banned BTW Lee, I've just been told.

 

[Martin Fuchs]

Lee, if that was his first post I'd be very surprised. There is usually a long history of 'not working as if in an office with colleagues' before a ban happens.

If you would actually look at the screenshot you would see your two statements:

"As a first post you've failed"
"Goodbye ... also, not a single post but a like on this"

So how on earth can you claim that this guy had a long history and that it wasn't his first post?

 

[Ian Bell]

Ian,

I've posted the exact same message in the other thread and you didn't reply or tell us what you think about this. I'd still be happy to hear what you think, honestly, because I've been playing pCARS myself. I (and 99.9% of all the people involved in the other thread) actually can't know who's right in this case, so I just won't think about it - matter of fact. I like the explanation posted here, tho.

However, what I, not as RD moderator but as a person, *DO* keep thinking about is how you damage your project by trying to defend it - now you're continuing to do so, in my eyes. The aforementioned thread is merely an example of someone who's embarassed by how the project is being represented on one of the most important sim racing fansites on the globe.

Many game companies try to silence critics but that's just not the right way to deal with a community nowadays, in my opinion. This message is almost completely copied / pasted but I'd still really like to know your reasong behind this. Why can't you tell the community why someone has been removed from your project (as much as data protection law permits) and / or provide proof that it wasn't unreasonable? I'm sure this could settle down nice and easy if you'd do.

People can hardly believe you without evidence when they're seeing stuff like this from "the other side of the argument". What if it really was just what I'm quoting below?



Hoping for an answer,

Tom

The person who liked the post wasn't banned I'm told.

I've no interest in silencing critics, I do care about false accusations though. I asked for a title amendment and the worst of the posts that violate the posting policy here to be moderated, that's all. It would have taken seconds. It's still there.

 

[Ian Bell]

We disagree on that precise thing, as I told you it's an opinion from the user when he received a ban without any specific reason. That's objective, we can't remove that!

If you want our personal opinion, check Bram defending WMD on the first post of the thread.

So if you think this small thing it's enough to destroy this community...

The person asked to be removed. Said he wanted out. He was refunded. I posted his last post here. His previous posts pretty much all violated our posting policy.

We're a workplace forum, not a standard forum, this is clearly advised to all members who join. I believe 99.955% have been able to follow the posting policy without issue. With 73,000 members plus I think that's a good ratio.

 

[Andy_J]

So can we safely say that legal action is on it's way Ian? Should RD batton down the hatches and take to the emergency shelters?

Come on, call it off before all this gets out of hand.

 

[David Dominguez]

This guy wasn't banned BTW Lee, I've just been told.

From iRacing forum, months ago:

"And now I got banned for liking two posts. Customer service at its best."

 

[Ian Bell]

If you would actually look at the screenshot you would see your two statements:

"As a first post you've failed"
"Goodbye ... also, not a single post but a like on this"

So how on earth can you claim that this guy had a long history and that it wasn't his first post?

He wasn't removed. No need for the 'how to hell's' thanks.

 

[Martin Fuchs]

The person who liked the post wasn't banned I'm told.

Of course he was. I saw it with my own eyes. He could even like your post where you said goodbye before you removed him. So the one guy liking your post in the screenshot was him.

I remenber this because that was the moment I was put off by your attitude and stopped reading the WMD forum.

 

[Ian Bell]

From iRacing forum, months ago:

"And now I got banned for liking two posts. Customer service at its best."

Yes, and this post was quoted there, it was false also. Don't believe all you read on the internet but in an ironic way you're proving my point here. These things have a tendency to spread.

 

[David Dominguez]

The person asked to be removed. Said he wanted out. He was refunded. I posted his last post here. His previous posts pretty much all violated our posting policy.

Saying goodbye doesn't necessarily mean that you want to be removed.

 

[Ian Bell]

Of course he was. I saw it with my own eyes. He could even like your post where you said goodbye before you removed him. So the one guy liking your post in the screenshot was him.

I remenber this because that was the moment I was put off by your attitude and stopped reading the WMD forum.

Continue to believe that if you want, but I can assure you Mark is still with us and posting merrily.

 

[Ian Bell]

Saying goodbye doesn't mean that you want to be removed.

Selective reading. Most of his previous posts violated our posting policy. The 'I've had enough of this, it's not worth it, I'm off, goodbye' was his swansong.

 

[David Dominguez]

So he was banned because of his previous posts, or because he said goodbye?

 

[Lee Ross]

The guy who posted that video that was quoted is a member here i'm sure.

 

[Martin Fuchs]

Continue to believe that if you want, but I can assure you Mark is still with us and posting merrily.

So why is his status "Removed" when I look him up?
Should I post a screenshot?

But thanks for implying that I'm a liar.

 

[Ian Bell]

So he was banned because of his previous posts, or because he said goodbye?

A combination. We were fairly happy that he 'let himself out' if I recall correctly given his previous posts. Life isn't black or white.

 

[Ian Bell]

So can we safely say that legal action is on it's way Ian? Should RD batton down the hatches and take to the emergency shelters?

Come on, call it off before all this gets out of hand.

Well, I'm constantly trying to reach out to them asking for moderation, just the same moderation all of the other forums get. That did happen when I came and made it clear there was enough abuse here, but the title still remains and the owners argue it's an opinion. Maybe I should have a WMD poll to ask if I should go further.

 

[Mapu]

A combination. We were fairly happy that he 'let himself out' if I recall correctly given his previous posts. Life isn't black or white.

Oh look, he's making progress!

 

[Ian Bell]

I'm not accusing you of anything, and I find this mind games pretty pathetic.

I said you WANT us not that you TOLD us, so please be precise when speaking, and apologize for twisting my words in a try to make me look bad.

You are asking me to remove critics to your product without any other reason than "are lies", without providing any objective evidence of them being lies and not opinable.

In my opinion it's obvious you want to censor simracers voice regarding your product, I can't find any other motivation.

I repeat again: WE WON'T CENSOR CUSTOMER REVIEWS ON RD

Sorry Xose but you're not making sense now. you said this a few posts back:

'But you wanted us to remove anything you didn't like from a commercial perspective, and we can't do that, because goes against our values and the free speech, specially when the comments come from people that tried the software. I told you this many times.'

I absolutely refute that. Calling me pathetic for calling you out on a clear lie isn't on. You have since agreed yourself I didn't ask for this.

 

[David Dominguez]

A combination. We were fairly happy that he 'let himself out' if I recall correctly given his previous posts. Life isn't black or white.

So he was banned because of a combination of messages were he complained about certain aspects of the game, and because you assumed he wanted to be removed.

Nice.