PC1 Pcars: A community divided

[Nathan Robinson]

Continuation of Part 1: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/banned-for-no-reason.47384/

Its hard to believe a game has taken a community over like this. Now with legal proceedings, its kind of become a joke for simmers. I have been at this a while now and have never seen a game invoke so much negative and positive reaction. May the discussions continue


Ps. While i continue to support pcars, i respect RD for allowing the freedom of expression to all its members.

 

[Lee Ross]

I have most certainly not attacked you.

I haven't a clue why anything at Vr has been removed. It's certainly not at my instigation. This has gone too far guys. Really.

Quite a coincidence that you are suing RD and now all the stuff from you at VirtualR in the AutoManiax debate has dissapeared. You questioned my sanity with saying you were a doctor and you would like to work out what was wrong with me for no longer supporting your game. Everyone see it.

WOW this is crazy

 

[Martin Fuchs]

This has gone too far guys. Really.

I couldn't agree more. This has gone way too far Mr. Bell

 

[Ian Bell]

I'm a psychologist actually.

I suspect I was trying to reason with you and if I 'questioned your sanity' it would have been in a lighthearted way. Just like my letter bomb reference.

There's little sense in accusing me of telling Rob what to do on Vr. I never have done.

 

[Xosé Estrada]

Guys, please, enough. You do realise Lee that there's 'Staff Member' beside your name. I've not said a word to Rob about any posts. Quoting me out of context again. I said 'That's terrible you should letter bomb our offices.' A clear joke that you're really misusing.

There's been far too much staff endorsement and indeed posts from staff against us here. I asked for a false title to be amended and was refused. That's it.

This is a community... staffs are simracers, they can talk like any other person in the world, is not like your company paid staff that are subordinated of yours and you can tell them what to do.

Lee it's a volunteer we "reward" (what a reward LOL) with a tag for the work he does for the enjoyment of the community, is not my subordinate and he's not under my control.

You really don't understand what a COMMUNITY is, no wonder why all this is happening.

 

[Megasoum]

I have most certainly not attacked you.

I haven't a clue why anything at Vr has been removed. It's certainly not at my instigation. This has gone too far guys. Really.

Don't you think that threathning a community to sue them because they don't like your product is going to far? Sure some stuff that was said by the members here was not nice to pCARS but you sure made sure to keep pouring fuel in the fire...

IMO maybe you should just ignore people who say openly that they don't like your game because let's face it, whatever the product you make (game, hardware, application, etc) you will always have people who don't like it (I'm talking in general here, not pointing SMS or pCARS specifically). Right now, all you are doing is shining a big giant light on those comments instead of focusing on improving/finishing your game and let the product prove itself when it comes out.

My 2 cents

 

[Ian Bell]

i've never threatened to sue any 'community'. I asked for a false heading of a thread to be amended and the worst of the abuse in the thread moderated. This didn't happen and the owners of teh site are attacking us. I'm not about to roll over and accept it.

 

[Peter]

What an attitude, suing RD (us) and than show up here

 

[Ian Bell]

You'll find I showed up and asked for moderation before being refused and having to take it further.

 

[DrJustice]

Quite a coincidence that you are suing RD and now all the stuff from you at VirtualR in the AutoManiax debate has dissapeared.

Rob just told you on the previous page that none of it has disappeared, and indeed it hasn't.

Here it is.

Making up things is not a good idea...

 

[Martin Fuchs]

You'll find I showed up and asked for moderation before being refused and having to take it further.

How do you intend to pay your "team of lawyers" by the way? I hope not with the money you got from the community to create the most realistic sim ever.

 

[Xosé Estrada]

You'll find I showed up and asked for moderation before being refused and having to take it further.

We moderated every thread about PCARS and removed any abuse.

But you wanted us to remove anything you didn't like from a commercial perspective, and we can't do that, because goes against our values and the free speech, specially when the comments come from people that tried the software. I told you this many times.

I also told you the post title is a personal oppinion and actually factual, you banned him from the forum and you didin't provide any reason. If you did, I asked you to kindly send us proof of that, but you refused, you keep telling what you don't like and you want removed but without any objective justification.

This is all I have to say on the matter here. The rest we'll take to our lawyers.

Among many others by PM.

Don't play the victim role here now please, fortunately everybody can read what you wrote.

 

[Ian Bell]

That was interesting reading DrJustice. Thanks for the link. So Lee you're BSNismo?
I'm happy the posts are still there as you'll see I was nothing but accommodating to you, trying to understand your u-turn so to speak. You'll also see that all of your 'WoW! this is unbelievable, Bell covering his tracks etc wasn't justified.

 

[RobVR]

Rob just told you on the previous page that none of it has disappeared, and indeed it hasn't.

Here it is.

Making up things is not a good idea...

Indeed, I`ve checked, nothing was deleted by F1Racer (moderator) either so you can really stop your conspiracy theories Lee.

 

[David Dominguez]

You'll find I showed up and asked for moderation before being refused and having to take it further.

According to you, that's what the banned user said on WMD forums:

I think I might give the club a miss thanks, shame for all of you!

I had a go, but so far I am afraid to say what you are doing doesn't warrant my time.

It warrants a passing interest hence the least amount invested.

Thank you and goodbye

​

I don't see where is he asking for being banned/removed from the project, he is just pointing that he isn't interested on the project on that specific moment, therefore he can say that he was banned for no reason, as that wasn't his intention.

 

[Ian Bell]

We moderated every thread about PCARS and removed any abuse.

But you wanted us to remove anything you didn't like from a commercial perspective, and we can't do that, because goes against our values and the free speech, specially when the comments come from people that tried the software. I told you this many times.

I also told you the post title is a personal oppinion and actually factual, you banned him from the forum and you didin't provide any reason. If you did, I asked you to kindly send us proof of that, but you refused, you keep telling what you don't like and you want removed but without any objective justification.



Among many others by PM.

Don't play the victim role here now please, fortunately everybody can read what you wrote.

That is absolutely false Xose, I've never mention you remove any post that might damage us from a 'commercial perspective'. Indeed I've said multiple times in the PM's that hating and posting about hating pCARS and or me is perfectly fine. Posting defamatory lies about our company practices isn't. The title of that thread was such.

This is another preposterous allegation. I call on you here and now to post one PM where I asked for the above. Please!

 

[Ian Bell]

I openly stated that lying about our company practices (ie banning people for no reason) could harm us financially as it's being quoted elsewhere. Nowhere did I ask that posts from those who dislike pCARS be moderated Quite the opposite and I can give you the links.

 

[Lee Ross]

Actually it was a mistake on my behalf. I googled Automaniax VirtualR and clicked this one below as it said in legal trouble. Presumed that was the one, see posts deleted and couldn't find mine or Bells posts. So no making things up, this is what i saw

http://www.virtualr.net/automaniax-porsche-online-in-legal-trouble

 

[Rhys Gardiner]

My view on this is that the "banned" thread's title was merely an opinion; posted in the heat of anger, but an opinion nonetheless. I find nothing libelous in that at all. I find it hard to see how these remarks will truly hurt SMS's business plan, and while the tone of some of the negative posts was over the top in my opinion, who the hell cares anyway? I will defend people's right to their opinions to the bitter end.
It's not a case of libelous and defamatory comments, it's a case of members of a community sharing their views on something that is obviously important to them. If one feels that they are "lying" (I believe "misinformed" would be a less inciting word to use if you believe that that is the case), then attempt to resolve the issue amicably instead of making jokes that will inevitably be taken the wrong way - Poe's Law, my friends.

I have been a member of RD for 4 years now, and in that time, I have taken part in races, had a stint as part of the media team writing articles for the site's front page, and moreover have discovered a second home on the internet. And the most obvious fact to come out of all my time here is the sole reason why I believe this legal action is a massive joke: RaceDepartment is a volunteer-run community, that survives on nothing more than donations and ad revenue! To threaten legal action on a place like this is a really low blow in my view.

A word of warning to SMS: RaceDepartment also happens to be one of the biggest sim racing community sites. If you go through with this legal action and it is initiated against RD, it will make waves in the sim racing community. Believe me.

That's all I have to say on this issue.

 

[Ian Bell]

My view on this is that the "banned" thread's title was merely an opinion; posted in the heat of anger, but an opinion nonetheless. I find nothing libelous in that at all. I find it hard to see how these remarks will truly hurt SMS's business plan, and while the tone of some of the negative posts was over the top in my opinion, who the hell cares anyway? I will defend people's right to their opinions to the bitter end.
It's not a case of libelous and defamatory comments, it's a case of members of a community sharing their views on something that is obviously important to them. If one feels that they are "lying" (I believe "misinformed" would be a less inciting word to use if you believe that that is the case), then attempt to resolve the issue amicably instead of making jokes that will inevitably be taken the wrong way - Poe's Law, my friends.

I have been a member of RD for 4 years now, and in that time, I have taken part in races, had a stint as part of the media team writing articles for the site's front page, and moreover have discovered a second home on the internet. And the most obvious fact to come out of all my time here is the sole reason why I believe this legal action is a massive joke: RaceDepartment is a volunteer-run community, that survives on nothing more than donations and ad revenue! To threaten legal action on a place like this is a really low blow in my view.

A word of warning to SMS: RaceDepartment also happens to be one of the biggest sim racing community sites. If you go through with this legal action and it is initiated against RD, it will make waves in the sim racing community. Believe me.

That's all I have to say on this issue.

I agree with a lot of this Rhys.

The crux is that if the post had stayed here we would probably have not gotten involved. It didn't though, it was quoted on other sites as fact.

Also, if some simple moderation of the title had happened we'd not still be asking for that.

We have nothing but respect for the sim racing community. We are that community ourselves. But the posts from some members here, unmoderated and even some of those labeled as staff have been clearly out of line. Our requests were ignored.

 

[Xosé Estrada]

That is absolutely false Xose, I've never mention you remove any post that might damage us from a 'commercial perspective'. Indeed I've said multiple times in the PM's that hating and posting about hating pCARS and or me is perfectly fine. Posting defamatory lies about our company practices isn't. The title of that thread was such.

This is another preposterous allegation. I call on you here and now to post one PM where I asked for the above. Please!

You never mentioned it, but considering that you want us to remove critics to the software (without any objective reasons) I can't imagine any other reason to do that.

I don't think you are a bad person, I don't think you are a dictator or evil, so the only reason I can find for you doing this, threatening a community, is that you want to protect your product against critics, thing that I don't share but in some way understand.

But I just can't do that, I need to sleep well at night, I can't sell my soul.