PC1 Pcars: A community divided

[Nathan Robinson]

Continuation of Part 1: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/banned-for-no-reason.47384/

Its hard to believe a game has taken a community over like this. Now with legal proceedings, its kind of become a joke for simmers. I have been at this a while now and have never seen a game invoke so much negative and positive reaction. May the discussions continue


Ps. While i continue to support pcars, i respect RD for allowing the freedom of expression to all its members.

 

[Lars Brugman]

I'm told he was.

That my friend is the best post of the whole thread

 

[Ian Bell]

The other forums are controlled by your guys though Ian, that's the difference and that is my biggest problem. Moderators have a vested interest on the sites as they are employed by SMS. Same goes with VirtualR, we never saw the Ferrari Test drive video from ISR on there but pre-release of the game, VirtualR was swamped with stuff for the title when it was all looking rosey. Ok, you may not of told Rob not to post it, but still it wasn't posted. But had it been a glowing review, it would of been shoved down our throats

Here and the iRacing forums, AVF and Guru3d are a few i know of that are NOT controlled by SMS or it's moderators and you will find the same discussions there as you will here. So it's not just RD that this happens.

Sorry Lee but off track again. We as a team were aware that FRL wouldn't be getting good reviews for a long time. A bit of insight, we started the game about 5 years ago, stopped working on it and it was transferred to another company to 'complete' for 2 years. This didn't go as well as hoped by those funding it and when we were free from EA's non compete it came back to us to finish the finishing. The funds were extremely tight.

We projected mid 60 scores internally.

I've not said a single word to Rob about posting or not posting anything.

The issue with the ISR review is that those guys have ignored pCARS for some reason from the off, got personal in the review and linked the quality of FRL to pCARS. I got a lot of mails from people 'surprised' that that review.

I've never read anything approaching the vitriol that was here for months on any other site sorry. I do read them all.

PS, for those annoyed at me spending so much time here, I'm on holiday in Sardinia. SMS is in good hands while I'm away.

 

[Tom]

Believe me, when I came on here to try to fix some of the serious abuse about us I wasn't referring to any 'mature' members of this forum.

There were plenty of thoughtful discussions that I've been responding to, and a lot of infantile abuse, which I'm also responding to.

Ian,

I'll be honest with you: stop all this. What you're currently doing, not only the discussion but more the lawsuit that you're threatening to start, is damaging your company and your project beyond words already.

Nobody really cared about the thread title anymore when they were discussing stuff about pCARS in there. Now they do. Continue going down the path you announced and it'll only make things worse for you.

I'm only trying to help you think about what's going on, honestly.

 

[Martin Fuchs]

This guy wasn't banned BTW Lee, I've just been told.

How about some common courtesy? Like saying sorry for making wrong accusations?

 

[Lee Ross]

I'm told he was.

Epic way to introduce yourself

 

[Ian Bell]

It's normal to ban people because he points out some flaws on the game? (just his opinion). And the last post, again, doesn't necessarily mean he asks to get banned.

And even worse, by reading his messages, you allowed people to laugh at him just because he didn't like some things from the physics. You even made a joke from one of his posts.

We openly request that members point out flaws in our game, that's part of their job. It's the tone and manner in which they post that we control. Again, as if to a colleague in a workplace. If a person violates that they tend to be removed after a while.

 

[Nathan Robinson]

Evidence backed statements are a lot more fun than the say and pray approach.

 

[Ian Bell]

How about some common courtesy? Like saying sorry for making wrong accusations?

Give it a rest please bonzo, you're being openly hostile.

This is from our moderators forum:

'RD found the post of Mark VD being banned for liking a post. Maybe Mark could break the bad news to them that he's still here and going strong.'

No conspiracy, nothing negative. This is what I'm told as I posted.

 

[Ian Bell]

Or you could have asked him if he wanted to be removed instead of assuming things.

We'll operate our forum as we see fit thanks. It's fine for 99.95% of members.

 

[Xosé Estrada]

How on earth could you know what I want if I'm not asking for it and frankly don't want it myself?

I don't know it, I opine it. As a human, I can judge situations and behaviours and develop my own ideas about them.

But that is not the relevant part. It doesn't matter what I think what is the reason behind you request, it's that the reasons you provide ("are all lies") doesn't constitute a legitimate reason to censor a user of this forum, because the subject is subjective (a personal experience with a software), and that he was at the moment banned without any reason given.

OK, so you accuse me of playing mind games, that are pathetic. I think you refer to me there or was it someone else?

I was referring to the games, never called you anything bad, you can check all my posts.

 

[Mapu]

Give it a rest please bonzo, you're being openly hostile.

This is from our moderators forum:

'RD found the post of Mark VD being banned for liking a post. Maybe Mark could break the bad news to them that he's still here and going strong.'

No conspiracy, nothing negative. This is what I'm told as I posted.

We'll operate our forum as we see fit thanks. It's fine for 99.95% of members.

 

[Megasoum]

Give it a rest please bonzo, you're being openly hostile.

You realize that the exact same thing could be said by switchting Bonzo with your name right?

 

[Nathan Robinson]

We openly request that members point out flaws in our game, that's part of their job. It's the tone and manner in which they post that we control. Again, as if to a colleague in a workplace. If a person violates that they tend to be removed after a while.

I can respect that because it is a business. Tone in the written word can be highly subjective tho. Is there a jury that decides on the tone of the post or just one person?

 

[Nathan Robinson]

Oops

 

[Lee Ross]

Sorry Lee but off track again. We as a team were aware that FRL wouldn't be getting good reviews for a long time. A bit of insight, we started the game about 5 years ago, stopped working on it and it was transferred to another company to 'complete' for 2 years. This didn't go as well as hoped by those funding it and when we were free from EA's non compete it came back to us to finish the finishing. The funds were extremely tight.

We projected mid 60 scores internally.

I've not said a single word to Rob about posting or not posting anything.

The issue with the ISR review is that those guys have ignored pCARS for some reason from the off, got personal in the review and linked the quality of FRL to pCARS. I got a lot of mails from people 'surprised' that that review.

I've never read anything approaching the vitriol that was here for months on any other site sorry. I do read them all.

PS, for those annoyed at me spending so much time here, I'm on holiday in Sardinia. SMS is in good hands while I'm away.

To be fair though Ian what do you expect i mean really. All the titles you have released with this Madness engine have all had this funky feel. Now i have not played pCARS for i don't know who long now and that is why i no longer comment on pCARS because it's not fair for me to as it's been so long. The reason i did stop though was because of it's feel and the simularties to former SMS titles.

It may well of improved by now with feel i don't know as i haven't tried but if they are going by what i felt when i last played it then maybe they have a point if all they have tried is early versions.

I appreciate their honesty and that's coming from me, someone that doesn't like that show lately but they went up in my books with the brutal honesty.

You should take that honesty from them and shove it down their throats. Use it to your advantage and make them praise pCARS instead of taking things personal like you always seem to do.

 

[Ian Bell]

Ian,

I'll be honest with you: stop all this. What you're currently doing, not only the discussion but more the lawsuit that you're threatening to start, is damaging your company and your project beyond words already.

Nobody really cared about the thread title anymore when they were discussing stuff about pCARS in there. Now they do. Continue going down the path you announced and it'll only make things worse for you.

I'm only trying to help you think about what's going on, honestly.

We've lost 2 members thus far as a result. We're coping. The general attitude of the staff here is frankly unacceptable. As I said before, I'm here to right wrongs. If the staff don't want to help then I'm disappointed.

Bram's post was premature. I said we'd sent some things off to our lawyers, we've yet to decide if we take it further. My wish is that there's some hint of concession and we can move forward in peace. I've given RD 10 free memberships just today. A fair olive branch I think.

Some of the stuff in that thread that you call 'discussing pCARS' was terrible vitriolic abuse both personal and otherwise. This was unmoderated for months. It's now gotten some moderation which we appreciate.

 

[Ian Bell]

I don't know it, I opine it. As a human, I can judge situations and behaviours and develop my own ideas about them.

But that is not the relevant part. It doesn't matter what I think what is the reason behind you request, it's that the reasons you provide ("are all lies") doesn't constitute a legitimate reason to censor a user of this forum, because the subject is subjective (a personal experience with a software), and that he was at the moment banned without any reason given.



I was referring to the games, never called you anything bad, you can check all my posts.

Can you see that saying that when we are discussing PM's and posts could give people the wrong impression? Not to mention your role as an administrator here.

 

[Mapu]

yeah yeah ... "it was fun for a while"...

 

[Andy_J]

Some of the stuff in that thread that you call 'discussing pCARS' was terrible vitriolic abuse both personal and otherwise. This was unmoderated for months. It's now gotten some moderation which we appreciate.

A lot of that vitriol came from Micas though, or in response to him. So Ian, can we see some light at the end of the tunnel here? No more threats? You know it would be wise to accept the situation as is now.

regards
Andy

 

[Ian Bell]

To be fair though Ian what do you expect i mean really. All the titles you have released with this Madness engine have all had this funky feel. Now i have not played pCARS for i don't know who long now and that is why i no longer comment on pCARS because it's not fair for me to as it's been so long. The reason i did stop though was because of it's feel and the simularties to former SMS titles.

It may well of improved by now with feel i don't know as i haven't tried but if they are going by what i felt when i last played it then maybe they have a point if all they have tried is early versions.

I appreciate their honesty and that's coming from me, someone that doesn't like that show lately but they went up in my books with the brutal honesty.

You should take that honesty from them and shove it down their throats. Use it to your advantage and make them praise pCARS instead of taking things personal like you always seem to do.

Cheers Lee.

I'm fine with personal abuse (so long as it's not infringing posting rules). I just don't enjoy reading the blatant lies. I feel I have a right to try to correct them.