Cars Lola T70 MkII Spyder (rF2) 2.1

[Hoshimo]

OK aphidgod, as promised the video with the explanation.

I hope my problem with this car is understandable now.

 

[LilSki]

OK aphidgod, as promised the video with the explanation.

I hope my problem with this car is understandable now.

Because you are supposed to lift between gears even if not using the clutch. Rev limiters were not really a thing in the mid 60s so yes engine damage should occur if you try to flat foot it between gears.

 

[ZethGAF]

Unrelated to your issue -your accelerator isn't getting 100% travel. Unless that's a replay bug.

 

[Art-J]

Rev limiters or not, in every non-synchronized gearbox spur gears must match the revs of the input shaft for the engagement to be possible, so as LilSki mentioned, either the driver, or some automation must lift on upshifts and blip on downshifts for the whole thing to work at all. Hoshimo, in the first part of your video the throttle is lifted correctly on every upshift (do you do it by yourself, or the game does it for you? I've never used any auto-features in AC, so I have no idea how they're coded), while in the second part you just take the whole the load off the engine while keeping the throttle floored - no wonder it redlines immediately - every engine would.

Now, the fact that higher gears mesh in anyway is an error/bug in itself, they shouldn't for the reason mentioned above, and the gearbox should get damaged as well, but that's another problem altogether.

 

[Andy-R]

Gearbox damage is a thing in the T70 but AFAIK it works the same way all cars do in AC, you can "crunch" it in without using the clutch and if you lift on upshifts and rev match perfectly on your way down you wont even get GB damage. It also has the same setting as the Miura which makes the gearbox somewhat temperamental if you try and shift too quickly, some articles/interviews suggested that the T70 gearbox is a bit difficult until everything gets up to temp, while we don't have this in AC it was a nice way to give it an old school vibe.

1 issue that I think remains is very quiet grinding sound which is very difficult to hear above idle.

 

[Hoshimo]

Because you are supposed to lift between gears even if not using the clutch.

I can use every old car and shift without lifting the throttle an inch, if auto-clutch is enabled!

your accelerator isn't getting 100% travel. Unless that's a replay bug.

Wasnt a replay, this was live recording.
And Yeah, I noticed that too. Some sensor clearning of my CSP v2 was due, which was done afterwards.

do you do it by yourself, or the game does it for you?

As I stated the first part out of the pit I used my clutch.

while in the second part you just take the whole the load off the engine while keeping the throttle floored - no wonder it redlines immediately - every engine would.

And that is the part. I can use any car and shift up with full throttle applied, as long as auto-clutch is active. In the first part of the video it wasnt, so hitting the rev limiter was completely fine. But in the second part, there is the auto-clutch enabled, just simulating driving with pedals of a Logitech DFGT for example, or even a 2 pedal set of Heusinkveld Pro. If I dont have a clutch I cant use a clutch. And for that reason AC has a feature named auto-clutch which prevents hitting the limiter.

 

[Andy-R]

I can use every old car and shift without lifting the throttle an inch, if auto-clutch is enabled!

Wasnt a replay, this was live recording.
And Yeah, I noticed that too. Some sensor clearning of my CSP v2 was due, which was done afterwards.

As I stated the first part out of the pit I used my clutch.

And that is the part. I can use any car and shift up with full throttle applied, as long as auto-clutch is active. In the first part of the video it wasnt, so hitting the rev limiter was completely fine. But in the second part, there is the auto-clutch enabled, just simulating driving with pedals of a Logitech DFGT for example, or even a 2 pedal set of Heusinkveld Pro. If I dont have a clutch I cant use a clutch. And for that reason AC has a feature named auto-clutch which prevents hitting the limiter.

I don't know the answer but would that be auto cut rather than auto clutch? What you describe sounds like a feature that automatically cuts the throttle for you rather than operating the clutch.

 

[LilSki]

I can use every old car and shift without lifting the throttle an inch, if auto-clutch is enabled!

Just because you can do it in other older cars in the sim doesn't make it right. As far as realistic behavior the Lola T70 is acting correctly. Lifting between gear changes = the correct way to drive.

 

[aphidgod]

I can't stream video on this rural internet (it's metered, and I'm a conscientious guest) but I can sorta infer what's happening from the other answers. I'll watch it this weekend when I'm back home.

Glad you got your hardware issues sorted so quickly, in any case.

 

[Kasti]

I can use every old car and shift without lifting the throttle an inch, if auto-clutch is enabled!
...AC has a feature named auto-clutch which prevents hitting the limiter
.

It is absolutly not recommended to shift old manual gearboxes too fast and without blipping or lifting, no matter if autoclutch is enabled. Autoclutch is only a function to simulate the use of an clutch pedal. There are cars with blippers or cutters, even elder cars, but the T 70 don`t have this systems. You can easily kill the engines of KS Porsche 908 nd 917 by false shifting - each mistake the damage momitor appears.(just use "mechanical damge: 100%" and you`ll see it)

In real life the old engines like to blew up by just one time false shifting and getting to much revvs. Same for the gearboxes, these big machines with their huge amount of torque ripped the gearsets into pieces if you are shifting like you described.

I´ve seen a lot of gearboxes with sprocketsbroken or damaged without their teeth. Or engines blown apart with broken crankshafts, connection rods torn and doing massive damage to their cases or valves having a nice meeting with the piston...

Just adapt your way of shifting to the historic procedure and all is fine.

The T70 is fine the way it shifts.

 

[Hoshimo]

Just because you can do it in other older cars in the sim doesn't make it right. As far as realistic behavior the Lola T70 is acting correctly. Lifting between gear changes = the correct way to drive.

I'm not discussing this anymore, because realism is one side of the plate, driveability the other one.

And Kunos had some thoughts with the auto-clutch feature. If a mod ignores that feature to be more realistic, luckily there are more than enough cars available.

Edit:
Completely forgot, if you really want this car to be completely realistic, throttle-blip has to be disabled too. So right now it's neither nor. Shifting up without using the clutch is a) bad, b) not possible without damage and because of that c) realistic, shifting down without manual double-cluch is a) fine, b) possible but c) not realistic. Honestly guys, where's the logic in that?

 

[aphidgod]

I think it might help if you read up a little bit about how dog boxes work. You don't need a clutch to shift them, full stop. You may use the clutch, but it's optional. You must lift to unload the gears if you don't use the clutch.

I'll have a look at the settings when I'm back home, but I don't know that I can promise to make any changes given that it works well for me and my XB1 controller. (Which, again, necessitates the use of autoclutch as surely as your 2-pedal setup does.)

But I will look. Can promise that.

 

[Kasti]

Completely forgot, if you really want this car to be completely realistic, throttle-blip has to be disabled too. So right now it's neither nor. Shifting up without using the clutch is a) bad, b) not possible without damage and because of that c) realistic, shifting down without manual double-cluch is a) fine, b) possible but c) not realistic. Honestly guys, where's the logic in that?

simply you can`t downshift with double clutch and blipping when using autoclutch, because it is

a)not possible(how without the pedal? Most of us will have 2 Pedal ones, and Kunos made clutch correctly to an axle, so you can`t use an button)
b)as far as i know not simulated by Kunos, they only programmed and recorded soundfiles for downshifting with a synchronized gearbox. So you can upshift without clutch but have to lift.

But how a about a more simple solution:
IMO it´s only a special soundfile that´s needed, simulating the blip when you are shifting down(but you have to lift...). This way no more changes are needed, but the immersion will be better by the user is listening to the short revving up sound...

 

[LilSki]

I looked into this last night and actually found the issue. The issue is not auto clutch. The problem is actually the auto blip option doesn't work. When auto blip is enable it also auto cuts the throttle on upshift on kunos cars. Neither the blip or cut is working when that assist is enabled for the lola. So yes he is right there is a problem but was wrong on what the actual problem was. Again auto blip is the problem not auto clutch.

 

[Kasti]

I looked into this last night and actually found the issue. The issue is not auto clutch. The problem is actually the auto blip option doesn't work. When auto blip is enable it also auto cuts the throttle on upshift on kunos cars. Neither the blip or cut is working when that assist is enabled for the lola. So yes he is right there is a problem but was wrong on what the actual problem was. Again auto blip is the problem not auto clutch.

Ahhh...
...that´s why i can`t reproduce his problem, cause i drive with those little helpers off - no need to change something on the car.

 

[Hoshimo]

Again auto blip is the problem not auto clutch.

Thanks LilSki,
That was the only combination I didnt test.

 

[aphidgod]

Five second fix.

 

[aphidgod]

aphidgod updated Lola T70 MkII Spyder (rF2) with a new update entry:

Fit, Finish, and Ford

With Goodwood Revival week almost upon us the time feels right to update the Lola. This installment brings fixes, updates, refinements, and a second car, this one powered by the smaller, lighter, but less powerful Ford small block V8.

Changelog:

• fixed aerodynamic drag
• fixed manual shift/autoclutch combo not lifting for upshifts
• added adjustable, animated front and rear spoilers
  
• added optional round fender mirror
• added Ford-powered step version
• added 15 new...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Dirk Steffen]

Download link is for rF2 version of the mod :-(

EDIT: - it just the file naming of the zip file being identical

 

[ronniej]

ur a rockstar sir...just sayin.