Going to DD after TS-PC, which one though?

[Navigator]

Well, after that all, now grounded, nothing else connected to the rig, all running fine....
The problem started all over again: problems with memory!
Wouldn't start, had to take one bank out to even get something on my screen.

@GeekyDeaks, what do you mean by making a separate ground?
I made the ground of the wall outlet to the rig; isn't that the same? What do you suggest? (Sorry, lost for a moment)

 

[GeekyDeaks]

@GeekyDeaks, what do you mean by making a separate ground?
I made the ground of the wall outlet to the rig; isn't that the same? What do you suggest? (Sorry, lost for a moment)

Well, it was only if the ground is connected to a different piece of metal as the wheelbase and you were still seeing problems really. I was thinking that if you can have a ground connected directly to the wheelbase it might help further if you have some amount of resistance between parts of your rig.

The problem started all over again: problems with memory!
Wouldn't start, had to take one bank out to even get something on my screen.

Whilst it's suspicious timing, I'd probably suggest reseating the memory first, especially if you have been moving stuff around when diagnosing your noise problem. If that is no good, I'd also try swapping the two memory sticks. If you can get it to boot with both in, I'd run memtest86 to check for any possible issues.

You are not having much luck mate.... but stick with it and I'm sure it can get sorted.

 

[Navigator]

Ah, I get the grounding now, thank you!

The memory.....after having driven a few laps, of for ten minutes and this, again.
I tried it all, can not really reproduce it and now I'm suspecting the memory broke down and/or the motherboard.
But I can buy al that stuff all over again, but who is to say the wheel doesn't demolish it again then? I'm not rich
I tried a memory program, I think its even the one you said.
It did give an error line, but then said the test stopped (while it was on a loop...) and there were no errors.
I was able to get that error line in twice even: I put ON the wheel while the test began........

The error line (not given as an error thus) is in the attachment.

I think I'm better of sending al the wheel stuff back, to protect my system.

 

[blekenbleu]

I made the ground of the wall outlet

Ground loops are a thing.
Wires may have nearly no resistance to DC or e.g. 50Hz power,
but surprisingly high impedance at radio frequencies; otherwise, antennas would not work.
Your PC has a ground connection at the wall outlet.
Wheel base power has a second ground connection.
Then, USB from PC to wheel base makes a ground loop.
Any current flowing on USB cable other than for device transceiver can be problematic.

USB was designed so that power from PC also powers USB device transceivers.
This would allow the USB signals to be relatively noise-free.
Ideally, there would be galvanic isolation between USB device transceiver and any other electronics in that device, but that is very rare. Otherwise, power fluctuations modulate the USB transceiver ground reference, interfering with signals.
Such problems can be mitigated by:

• high quality USB cables with ferrite beads
  Tripp Lite are a known good brand for USB 2.0
• Substantial (e.g. copper braid) bonding PC and device metal cages.
• Common ground should ideally be at the PC, not the wall outlet.
  • Second best: a short, high quality power cable from PC to a power conditioner
    for all attached accessories.

 

[Navigator]

I have to say this stuff is a bit harder for me than I am used to.
In a car? I'm your man, but that is pretty easy.
Come to think of it: there is an extension where the whole rig is plugged into: that was not a cheap one and has "some extra's inside" which I -of course- don't remember. But all is on that outlet and the cord is 3 meters (10 foot?) long.

I would expect the cables Fanatec delivers with their stuff is up to the job also, right? I mean the usb cable is pretty fancy........

But I'm really thinking of sending it all back: don't need this stuff: it gets me worked up way more than it should.

 

[blekenbleu]

an extension where the whole rig is plugged into: that was not a cheap one and has "some extra's inside"

.. so ground connection from rig to outlet may make things worse.
Instead, connect rig ground to e.g. a PC power supply mounting screw.

it gets me worked up

Likewise, I currently fight blue screens, presumably provoked by thermal issues.
Direct drive wheel base involves strong power surges.
In theory, that could be addressed by ma$$ive filtering in wheel base DC power supply;
that is a major cost in premium audiophile power amplifiers.
Keeping wheel base power wiring separated from signal wiring is important.

 

[Navigator]

.. so ground connection from rig to outlet may make things worse.

Wait......what? You serious?
Ah, I don't get that: I thought I did the only proper thing there was.
All is on that extension cable/socket, even the ground from the rig I just laid.
Hmm, I never thought about it that way: makes me think.....I'm NOT good with house electronics

Sorry for your problems mate.
You know me a bit by now: I can not help you, but I do feel for you. I know how these things feel now and it's actually sickening.
I hope you get t sorted out mate.

 

[Navigator]

Forgot: I checked the voltage between the case of the power supply of the computer and the rig (That's what you meant, right?)
Its zero when wheel is OFF
It's between 0,3 and 0,5 V AC when the wheel is switched ON.
Both measurements are the same if the computer is ON or OFF.

So, I should take the ground wire OUT of the wal-extender and connect it to the case of the power supply build in the computer? Making that connection with my rig (and thus wheelbase mount?

I have to say, grounding some 8,55 V AC to a computer ground........is not what I was expecting: to me, (car guy) it seems even scary stuff.
Or am I getting it wrong?

 

[Deleted member 197115]

It is really unfortunate that you have to go through this. Honestly, just return the wheelbase, chasing these gremlins is not worth it, it's Fanatec's responsibility to deliver the product ready to use out of the box without killing other USB devices.
Plus looks like you are not alone with these problems.

DD1 interference with HTC Vive Pro and Valve Index Headset Tracking

I've got 2 DD1's that have this problem. When using either a HTC Vive Pro or a Valve Index VR headset, the headset tracking drops out ( headset video goes grey) when I touch the sides or bottom of the VR headset when I'm sitting in the simulator.

forum.fanatec.com

 

[Navigator]

Yes, I will do that. Sad.
Looked at the page and it is no picnic; I do have couple of reservations: it has been mounted to metal, it may have some scratches. Sending it all back and they say they don't take it because its damaged is on my mind.
But also: I can't seem to find out how: there is a page, a form, another form and a linked page....
I don't even know which one I should use.
And then: 6 packages......they may reimburse you, but that's going to be a small fortune to send.
Its this page: https://fanatec.com/eu-en/right-of-revocation-revocation-form
Pretty much hocus pocus to me

 

[blekenbleu]

scary stuff

As you have also measured, very little current is involved.
Most cheap multimeters would measure smaller Voltage.
Fanatec expects most customers to plug other Fanatec accessories into their wheel stand,
but there are indeed many folks experiencing "challenges"
when mixing USB accessories with Fanatec wheelbases.
Part of that is because Fanatec has so many customers.
Part of that is because Fanatec attracts customers who want plug and play experience.

Grounding wheelbase directly to PC minimizes noise currents thru USB cable.
I suspect that disconnecting grounds in PC power cables, including monitor(s),
with only keyboard attached would yield comparable EMI filter leakage current measurements.

 

[Navigator]

That is true and now I don't have anything other than Fanatec stuff (except the VR that takes a usb port) and well......
I know with my head: it is better to send it all back, be it just for peace of mind because to much happened.
On the other side: for me to send the stuff back, mentally, it is a mountain to climb.

Just tried again, PC2, no stutter, well, a bit.
But on the straights at Long Beach in an Indycar: it IS bumpy. I have set the FFB a bit (to) high and I am shaking with it, especially with the cable touching my shoulder: tap that cable and I see it as a stutter: I noticed that long ago.
Then: mouse centered itself when I tried to click "back" and a stutter/screen hang for just half a second. "You see? Again USB related and it is F*cked!" I went
Turned out: the screen mirror with a lower resolution was falling just UNDER the lower Windows bar and I was clicking that! Lifted the screen up: never had the problem again.

Also the black screen today: I did make some changes to the bios when it happened earlier this week........I read I had to set some voltages for the memory back.........maybe that has to do with it?

You see, I'm MAKING myself crazy too.
Touched the base, bare metal like what was in the link Andrew showed: no problem there, no stutter, nothing.

I got to have a good nights sleep over this, sending it back or not. I don't want to do it for problems I am just imagining.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

As you have also measured, very little current is involved.

I think this is an important point. Whilst the noise is probably causing some issues, I haven't seen anything that I would consider remotely 'dangerous' to either the kit or person.

I got to have a good nights sleep over this, sending it back or not. I don't want to do it for problems I am just imagining.

Good idea. It's always a tricky balance solving the problem quickly *and* methodically, and it's really easy to make too many changes compounding your problems (been there plenty of times in this and other hobbies).

If it was me, I'd take a step back and get everything working well without the wheel/pedals first, then start tackling it again.

 

[RasmusP]

Also the black screen today: I did make some changes to the bios when it happened earlier this week........I read I had to set some voltages for the memory back.........maybe that has to do with it?

I can't help much with the rest but I know quite a few things about bios, OC, ram etc.
If you want to be sure:
Set the ram voltages to "Auto" (sometimes you have to type in auto) and load the xmp profile.
If you have multiple xmp profiles, then choose a 3200 MHz one.
Maybe the 3600 MHz became unstable.

Then restart and go back into the bios again.
When selecting the xmp profile, there should be a voltage in the name of it.
Set the ram voltage to that voltage. Or one step higher, ddr4 can take a lot of volts without issues (der8auer did a long time test with 1.8V).
Your xmp probably says 1.25-1.35V. Set it to 1.4V for now.

This should make the ram very very stable. Running a bit below the xmp spec with a slightly higher voltage.

 

[blekenbleu]

VR that takes a usb port

Route VR cable(s) spaced so far as possible from rig metal and DD1 power,
also add ferrite beads to VR cables.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

While cables rerouting, ferrite chokes and better shielded cables help with EMI and RFI, they have zero effect on ground loop, and this is most likely what we are dealing with.
Don't claim to be an expert, but had to deal with this issue on OSW, the solution was extra ground wire from motor to controller, with HE handbrake it was extra ground wire from USB cable to the rig. And in audio domain when using USB DAC and power amp with floating ground, the solution to kill hum and noises was to put power amp on Hum-X.

 

[Navigator]

Thank you guys, you are all most helpful and I really appreciate that!
I will also look some more at the motherboard. Someone told me the CPU SA and the CPU IO 2 voltages were to high and I had to set them back. They were around 1.4 V and I had to set them back to 1,22 and 1,26 V When it happened again, I had to step it up a bit more.
I got to have a look at the speeds: when I just put them in they go 2133 Mhz and when I click on XMP, they go 3600 Mhz.
I don't know what voltage the ram itself has at the moment, but I am going to look at that.

Those ferrite rings, are these, right? https://www.reichelt.nl/nl/nl/ferri...MIorDC7revgAMVL4VoCR0Rjw1wEAQYDCABEgKH6fD_BwE
They are pretty cheap, but what frequency should I have?

Cables and spacing them apart is a bit of a mess: can't keep everything I want al that far away from each other, but I will make the best of it.

Going to drive a few laps, finally, and see what the bios says when I fire it back up again

Oh, about those voltages @RasmusP, the guys I took that advise from, let me made a screenshot of some info thing while I was running a benchmark: I will put that screenshot in here.
The things I had set back, were -in the screenshot- the "VCCIO2" and the "VCCSA"

 

[blekenbleu]

Those ferrite rings, are these, right?

Nope, those are usually for transformer cores.
Ferrite beads are wanted to kill energy, not transfer;
I usually get kits, such as:

 

[blekenbleu]

they have zero effect on ground loop, and this is most likely what we are dealing with

Actually, now that it was brought to my attention,
I suspect those VR cables act like antennas, dragging RFI into his PC.
@Navigator happens to use a meter with wider bandwidth and higher impedance
to yield unusually high leakage voltage value, IMO.

 

[RasmusP]

Oh, about those voltages @RasmusP, the guys I took that advise from, let me made a screenshot of some info thing while I was running a benchmark: I will put that screenshot in here.
The things I had set back, were -in the screenshot- the "VCCIO2" and the "VCCSA"

The Screenshot resolution is way too low, I can't read anything, sorry
How heavily overclocked is your CPU? Normally, you don't have to touch anything other than RAM voltage, vcore and loadline.